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#299123 - 03/01/17 02:48 AM How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 14997
The "apparently" official GOP Obamacare replacement was leaked and it targets Trump voters with surgical precision. How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage. The Atlantic. Be careful who you vote for.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#299130 - 03/01/17 08:11 AM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 39975
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Be careful who you vote for.

Right?!? dunce

...from your link:

Quote:
For people not covered by employers or public insurance who have to purchase insurance on individual, small group, or exchange markets, this proposal would allow insurers to charge up to 30 percent more in premiums to people who go without coverage at any point for more than two months, and also for young adults who don’t enroll in coverage as soon as they age out of their parents’ plans, a surcharge that would not be remitted as taxes to sustain the system, but would be paid as profits to insurers. The effects of this potential measure on individuals’ pockets are potentially limited by a reduction of federal oversight over what can be considered health-insurance coverage, which would allow people to avoid penalties by purchasing barebones coverage.

...

...The result of all these provisions would almost certainly be a system that benefits people who already have wealth and health and penalizes others, but there would also be very strong geographic effects. For one, pegging Medicaid spending to a base year would reduce states’ ability to ramp up health-care spending because of disasters or emerging health problems, and these problems already exert the most pressures on states and areas with infrastructure that is ill-equipped to combat them. Rural residents already rely much more heavily on public insurance than do city-dwellers, so any reductions of funding and funding flexibility will have a larger effect on the health issues they face
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#299136 - 03/01/17 08:29 PM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6406
Loc: North San Diego County
That's The Republican Way: Screw the working class and poor people. It's so ingrained in their DNA they have to do it, even though these very people gave them the White House and Congressional majorities. It's the "shoot your own foot" gene.

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#299138 - 03/01/17 10:47 PM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 14997
The "plan" from the GOP appears to accrete all the worst ideas in healthcare - Health Savings Accounts, catastrophic only coverage plans, insurance company hegemony, cross-border sales, individual medicaid caps, block grants to States.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#299143 - 03/02/17 12:07 AM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5914
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I am still trying to wrap my poor little brain around this problem and every facet of the conservative plans always results in failure for one of two reasons.
1. the people who are supposed to be covered in most cases can not afford to pay enough nor make enough for enough credit.
2. the government underfunds other options

the only reason these folks are even talking about healthcare is because of ACA - their constituents liked the idea. Unfortunately for them, their ideology prevents them from finding a solution
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#299144 - 03/02/17 12:22 AM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6406
Loc: North San Diego County
It's all about redistribution: The well and rich have to pay more to cover the sick and poor. Of course, in the future the well and rich probably will be the sick and poor, but let's not confuse the morons with facts.

If you don't have redistribution the sick and poor get sicker and die. Simple fact. Republicans can't stand the idea of redistribution, and therefore are not competent to devise a system that requires that.

All we can do is wait. If enough people die, then maybe people will be nostalgic about ACA and figure out that Republican policies kill.

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#299344 - 03/08/17 01:02 AM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 14997
This is the best description of what the proposed GOP health(I DON'T) care bill would actually do:
Quote:
The bill aims to take a wrecking ball to the principle of universal coverage. If enacted, millions of Americans would end up without any coverage. For many people who purchase individual policies, especially older people, it promises fewer services for more money. And it also proposes a big tax cut for the rich, which would be financed by slashing Medicaid, the federal program that provides health care to low-income people.
The New Yorker.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#299345 - 03/08/17 01:17 AM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8424
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Here's a plan to make sure we get a really good plan:

Pass a law (yeah, right, I know...) that says all people in politics have to limit themselves to the same level of healthcare that the poorest 10% of the population have. And they don't get to spend any of their own money on extras, either.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

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#299348 - 03/08/17 01:32 AM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: logtroll]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3648
Loc: Eugene, OR
The best Republican heath care plan out there (the one that they really want) is survival of the fittest. Pay to play-- or simply vanish. Preferably quietly without any hysterical and fake news creating dustups and other untoward noises. Free markets and all of that.

That would cut costs tremendously and allow only the worthy to prosper without the annoying sick and dying mucking up matters.
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#299350 - 03/08/17 01:51 AM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: Ken Condon]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13645
Loc: Florida
So they've named Trumpcare the American Care Act. Now they can repeal Obamacare and keep the ACA like the Trump supporters want.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#299351 - 03/08/17 01:53 AM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5914
Loc: Highlands, Tx
The clue was when Dr Price would only say, he will provide access. It's not access but coverage people need.

Free market solutions - didn't the free market operate prior to ACA? yes of course and it found no solution.

Sprinkling conservative ideological magic powder on a stack of papers does not provide a solution.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#299354 - 03/08/17 02:33 AM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8424
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Greger
So they've named Trumpcare the American Care Act. Now they can repeal Obamacare and keep the ACA like the Trump supporters want.

At least they won't be pretending that it's affordable... in the name, anyway.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

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#299355 - 03/08/17 05:12 AM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 14997
If one were to think up the least effective, least humane, most expensive plan possible, it would look EXACTLY like the GOP plan. That is NOT an exaggeration.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#299358 - 03/08/17 05:56 AM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13645
Loc: Florida
Quote:
least effective, least humane, most expensive plan possible


About what we were expecting, eh? All those folks suffering under Obamacare will be so relieved.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#299400 - 03/09/17 10:43 AM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6406
Loc: North San Diego County
The ironic thing is that my wife (a Liberal) will get a $4000 tax credit she did not get under her ACA policy. (Too much income for any subsidy.) But tons of Trump supporters get the Republican's "go home and die" option.

And they deserve it: We voted to save them in spite of it costing us, and they voted to die. What are you going to do, when people would rather die than vote to keep their health insurance? Maybe it's just Natural Selection.

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#299407 - 03/09/17 04:59 PM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13645
Loc: Florida
While we often think of the Republican base as uneducated, lower middle class, blue collar workers who have been left behind by technological advances and have seen their jobs relocated overseas, the truth is that a huge percentage of them are pretty well off. Highly paid managers, executives, and business owners who hate to pay taxes and hate government regulation that cuts into their already hefty profits.
It is they who will reap the benefits of this health care plan.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#299409 - 03/09/17 06:31 PM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 14997
The Republican base, like the Democratic base, is diverse. The Republican political class, however, is not. Before this election there was much rending of clothes and gnashing of teeth about the impending demise of the GOP. The underlying schism within the party remains as exemplified by the healthcare debacle.

There is a real opportunity to remake politics in this environment. The resist movement demonstrates how. The Democratic party is, by nature, more diverse and welcoming. It has, in modern history, been a champion of individual freedom and identity through cooperative policy. If it focuses on those things, it can bring millions into the fold who think they are conservative, but depend on society to make it. It's a sales job, and it requires commitment to the fundamental values of the party. It needs to start now.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#299412 - 03/09/17 08:23 PM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8424
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
...It's a sales job, and it requires commitment to the fundamental values of the party. It needs to start now.

Now yer talkin'...
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

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#299413 - 03/09/17 09:53 PM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13645
Loc: Florida
It's a hard sell to the lower income conservative crowd.

They are mostly a hate based group.They hate black people, Muslims, Mexicans, Jews, pushy women, and queers. They hate government programs designed to lift these people up and give them the same rights they have. If you aint white, Christian, or straight they have some hatred tucked away somewhere for you even if they pretend otherwise. Many of them depend on government programs to survive, but their perception is that these programs inordinately reward minorities while shafting "more deserving" white, Christian, straight, conservatives like themselves.
There are a few things they love...cops, the military, Israel(because Israel hates some of the same people they hate) and more recently Vladimir Putin and Russia(Because they perceive Putin as a "strong leader") While they shout about Freedom from the rooftops you might note that what they love represents mostly authoritarianism and a distinct lack of freedom. On the bright side...unless they are voting against something they hate(pushy women this time around)they vote in smaller numbers than their more wealthy counterparts in the election.

And it's a hard sell to wealthier and upper middle class Republicans who never miss a chance to vote for lower taxes and less regulation They may be outright racists and haters too, but they are only in it for the money and count on government to keep minorities in their place. They are the ones the Republican Party caters to. They're generous donors, dependable voters, and see eye to eye with the local politicians they golf with and national politicians they send checks to. Perhaps Hillary Clinton's biggest campaign promise was that she would "go where the money was" and raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans. That could have backfired a little bit.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#299419 - 03/10/17 02:01 AM Re: How a GOP Health-Care Plan Could Leave Rural Areas Devoid of Coverage [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6406
Loc: North San Diego County
If the poor and working class had not voted for Trump, the Registered Republicans (people have economic reasons to benefit from Republican ideas) would only represent about 33% of voters. Democratic Party members far outnumber Republican Party members, and these are the idealistically committed.

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