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#299236 - 03/05/17 12:01 AM Sous vide cooking...
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
This post is mostly for Tat since I know he already has the equipment. Loggy also has one so this is a recipe you guys should try.

I've done a lot of things with the sous vide immersion pod, positively the best steaks and chicken breasts you'll ever eat but another recipe has proven to be a real favorite.

Chicken Confit. Properly that's pronounced "con-fee" but personally I prefer the Americanized "con-feet". It's an old pre-refrigeration way of preserving meat, and traditionally it's done with duck legs. Originally the duck legs were heavily salted and then immersed in duck fat and cooked in the oven for 12-14 hours at about 175 degrees. Then they were placed in a crock and the duck fat poured over them until the were completely submerged and allowed to cool.
Basically the meat was ultra pasteurized then sealed with the fat to prevent any contaminants from getting to it. Theoretically it could last for weeks or months without spoiling.

Enter the sous vide method and modernist cooking....

Duck legs are hard to come by. And duck fat is expensive. But dark meat is dark meat and fat is fat so it works perfectly with chicken and olive oil. And the end result is amazing. Very soft, falling off the bone tender, and delicious. Perhaps it might be better if it were cooked in duck fat but my kid and I are in agreement that chicken this good just really couldn't get noticeably better.

The short version of the recipe is to season the chicken generously, put two leg quarters in a gallon zip lock, pour in some olive oil, remove all the air from the bag and put it in a 165 degree water bath for 8-10 hours.
It's okay if the leg bones seem to stick up above the oil, it will all settle a bit as it cooks and quite a bit of additional fat and delicious drippings will be rendered out of the chicken. You'll have a lot more liquid in the bag when it's done and the meat will be completely submerged in it.

When it's done I dredge it with flour and drop it in the deep fryer for about 3 minutes to crisp the skin. You can also sear it in a non stick pan with or without oil. Or just pull it off the bone and scarf it down. Handle it carefully though because there's not much connective tissue left intact and it falls apart rather easily.
Honestly, chicken just doesn't get any better than this.

You can do this ahead, refrigerate the bags just as they came from the waterbath then reheat them for a few minutes in the sous vide before crisping and serving. Or freeze them for service any time. it doesn't take long in the water bath to bring them from freezing back to service temp.

Save everything that comes out of the bag, there's gonna be a lot of fat so save it, freeze it and use it next time for even more flavorful chicken...It makes a pretty amazing gravy too.

Here's the long version of the recipe.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#299237 - 03/05/17 01:00 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Thanks Greger,

I think I have some frozen chicken here, and since my wife is out of town, the kitchen has already been converted to my mad scientist laboratory. Time to bring out the really large objectionable equipment, while the coast is clear!

When I was getting started with sous vide, I experimented, with careful controls, of seasoning with fresh herbs with and without added olive oil. I was quite surprised to find that they were tastier without the oil. It seemed like the oil absorbed the flavors and didnt make it into the chicken. These were, however, only 2 hr incubations, I mean sue veed times, or is it soo veed. So I dropped adding oil, but it looks like it was premature. Things are probably much different with an 8 hr or more immersion times.

Unfortunately, my wife would rather never see anything in food that is anatomically recognizable, including skin. She needs to be desensitized, so maybe a batch of tongue would do the trick. If it was pulled in tacos, I might be able to slip her the tongue. While researching organ meats to respond to Jeffery's foghorn leghorn post (dont ask why, would spoil the surprise), I found an extensive organ meat database, indexed by species and anatomical location. I will go hunt it down and post it as a so called or gag!

Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#299240 - 03/05/17 02:03 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Chicken breast doesn't seem to gain anything with the addition of oil. Steak, on the other hand, is improved with a light coating of it.
The confit recipe isn't suited to chicken breast at all. White meat can't handle that cooking time. Skin-on thighs are quite popular done that way.
I almost made green chile chicken enchiladas with it today; just strip the meat from the bones and proceed. I've also made gravy from the juices in the bag, pulled the meat off the bones and added it to the gravy then served it over mashed potatoes. That was a winner.
The chicken enchiladas(or maybe tacos) are coming up in the menu soon though. I've still got three more leg quarters to work with.

I'm looking forward to trying some skin-on bone-in chicken breasts.
The numbers vary slightly on this but something like 140 or 150 degrees for 1 to 2 hours. Some recipes say to sear the skin first some don't. In theory the flavors from the Maillard reaction should slightly improve the flavor by infusing it into the meat while it cooks sous vide. Large cuts of beef are usually seared before and after sous vide cooking but I haven't tried much of that yet.
_________________________
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#299243 - 03/05/17 04:39 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
Speaking of organ meats: I recently read an account from a lady that claimed her Paleo-diet of eating fresh-hunted wild meat raw had cured her MS. She also favored eating organ meats from those carcasses raw.

I guess nobody has explained to her how parasites protect themselves by attacking their host's immune system. With the right parasites, MS would not be a problem. Of course, a pork tapeworm in your brain might be...

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#299245 - 03/05/17 05:07 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   content


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12448
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: TatumAH

Unfortunately, my wife would rather never see anything in food that is anatomically recognizable, including skin. She needs to be desensitized, so maybe a batch of tongue would do the trick. If it was pulled in tacos, I might be able to slip her the tongue. While researching organ meats to respond to Jeffery's foghorn leghorn post (dont ask why, would spoil the surprise), I found an extensive organ meat database, indexed by species and anatomical location. I will go hunt it down and post it as a so called or gag!

Tat





Uh ohhh, should I be scared?
Thanks TAT for making Reader Rant a hoot once again!

_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#299248 - 03/05/17 08:06 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: TatumAH

While researching organ meats to respond to Jeffery's foghorn leghorn post (dont ask why, would spoil the surprise), I found an extensive organ meat database, indexed by species and anatomical location. I will go hunt it down and post it as a so called gag!

Tat

Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas


I like to think of Foghorn Leghorn as a practical and pragmatic man, errr rooster.


Uh ohhh, should I be scared?
Thanks TAT for making Reader Rant a hoot once again!

Not necessarily scared, but maybe queasy...

Thanks, we aim to please!

Foghorne is a typical highly androgen charged, errr rooster, and most appropriately as a Cock! If you have been around large intact Cocks, you know how aggressive they can be. These characteric are related to androgen effects, and finally getting around to the organ meat connection, they have testes similar in size to those of adult humans! This shocked me when I worked with roosters/cocks and saw the internal organs.

Quote:
[/quote]
Chicken testes

[quote][Rooster Fries, Chicken Beans (North America), Chicken Testicles (Asian recipes)]

These are a popular delicacy in China, supposed to enhance male prowess, and improve skin tone for women. They seldom appear in North American cuisines. In China they are available in both pink and black, but the black fleshed silkie chickens are still a very small specialty item in North America, so the black balls are not available here.

Rooster testicles are larger than you might think, but they need to be. A rooster is expected to be up at the crack of dawn, crow his heart out - then "service" 20 or more hens during the day. No slouch he - your rooster is a busy bird. The photo specimens varied greatly in size from 1.13 inches long, 0.6 inch diameter and 0.13 ounce to 2.4 inches long, 1.13 inches diameter and 3.13 ounces. Our ever faithful red kidney bean is in the upper left corner for scale. A 12 ounce tray contained 30 nuts for an average weight of 0.4 ounces each.
Quote:

Rooster testicles are like little sausages. The casings contain flesh with an appearance and texture similar to tofu. Connoisseurs like them barely cooked so they are very tender and even a little liquid in the center, and when you bite into them they kind of go "sploosh" in your mouth. The less experienced may wish to have them cooked a little longer so they have the texture of firm tofu all the way through.

The flavor is quite mild, kind of like tofu with overtones of chicken liver - pretty innocuous, once you get used to the idea of eating roosters 'nads.


They're generally put up in foam trays of about 12 ounces and sold at about US $6.99/#. I don't know how available they are in the rest of North America.

Prep: Just rinse and cut off any stringy things dangling from them.

Cooking: Rooster nuts are usually served in a broth with mushrooms or vegetables, prepared rather simply. Some recipes call for marinating them in rice wine before cooking. They don't take a lot of cooking and will be done through and of uniform texture after simmering about 15 minutes, so watch your timing if you like them more tender.

Yield: pretty much as close to 100% as you can get.

In South American Asado, entire steers were cooked wasting nothing, most organs included balls we included. Even the blood was packed into the intestines and also roasted as blood sausage, that to me always looked like bowels filled with blood clots. Pathologists are not generally much into organ meats, too much like work, and many become vegetarians for a while in their early training when they have there highest exposure to organs on the hoof, so to speak.

What will be the next organ of interest, one can only guess wand see what pops up!

TAt
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#299249 - 03/05/17 12:45 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8494
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Chicken nuggets?
Quote:
... finally getting around to the organ meat connection, they have testes similar in size to those of adult humans!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

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#299254 - 03/05/17 05:07 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
But here's another mystery. While roosters might have edible and delicious testicles they do NOT have a penis.

Quote:
The male chicken (rooster) does not have a penis like other animals and therefore there is no penetration of the female reproductive tract when mating. Instead the female inverts her cloaca (the common junction of the reproductive and digestive systems) which comes in contact with the male's inverted cloaca and receives the sperm. The cloaca is then drawn back into the hen's body and the sperm are captured. They then begin the journey up the length of the reproductive system.

Ducks, on the other hand, most assuredly DO...
But whether the Chinese eat them to increase penis size I have no idea.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#299255 - 03/05/17 05:47 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8494
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Who knew cooking was so fascinating!
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"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

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#299256 - 03/05/17 05:51 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: logtroll]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Chicken nuggets?
Quote:
... finally getting around to the organ meat connection, they have testes similar in size to those of adult humans!



Quote:

11 Things You Didn't Know About Rocky Mountain Oysters
By Sarah Anderson Published On 08/21/2015

The term "Rocky Mountain oyster" might make you think, "Oh! I love oysters! Are they similar to Blue Points?" But these little suckers are far from the sweet and briny sort you might anticipate at your typical oyster happy hour. So before you try to order Rocky Mountain oysters on the half shell, read up on these 11 facts!

1. They are not bivalves of the sea
Rocky Mountain oysters are not oysters at all. They're mammal testicles, and most commonly come from bulls, bison, pigs, and sheep. That's nuts, right?!
2. The dish was created by ranchers in the Rocky Mountain region
Some of the very first ranchers to inhabit the West needed inexpensive sources of food, so they experimented with different cuts of meat. And because they didn’t waste any part of the animal, they began cooking testicles with branding coals. And you know what? They were delicious!
Now, these "oysters" are typically found in the American West and western Canada, where young animal castration is commonly used to control breeding, stimulate skeletal muscle growth for beef, and regulate temperament, i.e., make the animal less angry and inclined to castrate you.
3. The cooking methods are versatile
Although Rocky Mountain oysters can be sautéed, braised, broiled, and poached, they're most often peeled, pounded flat, coated in flour, salt and pepper, and fried. (Guys, are you wincing yet?) In Canada these battered balls are typically served with a demi-glace and in America they'll likely be accompanied by cocktail sauce.
4. Testes are healthy
Battering and deep-frying aside, these organs are so rich in vitamins, minerals, and protein, it's a wonder why gym rats don't blend them into workout shakes. And in case you were wondering, eating an animal's gonads have zero effect on the human consumer's hormone balance.

5. These cojones have multiple names
Although they're most commonly referred to as oysters due to their slimy appearance when raw, some other names are used to describe the little fellas. Examples include: cowboy caviar, prairie oysters, swinging beef, Montana tendergroin, dusted nuts, bollocks, or bull/pig/lamb fry. Rocky Mountain oysters, however, is the euphemism to end all euphemisms.


Ewephemisms for goat and sheep are genderly excluded.
A rose by any other name is still a rose.
I was quite surprised by the limited creativity in the naming of the various offal recipes. I was expecting at least a spaghetti with meat balls, or some such, but was disappointed. Let your culinary juices flow and fill this void. I am working up a masturpiece to memorialize our deceased justice Scalia with a working title of Scrotale Bolognese.

Tat



https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5...65/?format=750w




Edited by TatumAH (03/05/17 05:55 PM)
Edit Reason: speeling of Bolognese, though iI prefurr bowlegnese
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#299258 - 03/05/17 06:33 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
But here's another mystery. While roosters might have edible and delicious testicles they do NOT have a penis.

Quote:
The male chicken (rooster) does not have a penis like other animals and therefore there is no penetration of the female reproductive tract when mating. Instead the female inverts her cloaca (the common junction of the reproductive and digestive systems) which comes in contact with the male's inverted cloaca and receives the sperm. The cloaca is then drawn back into the hen's body and the sperm are captured. They then begin the journey up the length of the reproductive system.

Ducks, on the other hand, most assuredly DO...
But whether the Chinese eat them to increase penis size I have no idea.


Well...
To no surprise of alert members, it was clear where this thread was headed. The ultimate paradox, the cock has no penis. I can confirm this by direct observation. So, when choosing a species to re-incarnate into, one has to compare the unknowable sensations of cloaca inversion vs penis inflation/insertion. Since roosters do it up to 20 times/day, it is unlikely that it is painful. Still, a Drake would be able to Lord it over roosters with witty ditty's or is it ditties, from the ultimite arbiters of taste and wit, Montey's Python, who are like watching Oscar Wilde and Noël Coward in the third grade."
Taty


Edited by TatumAH (03/05/17 06:43 PM)
Edit Reason: ADDing Wilde Cowardice comment
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#299260 - 03/05/17 09:55 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I can confirm this by direct observation.

I've watched chickens fu<k on more occasions than I can count and never would have guessed it if I hadn't read is somewhere. I've got a huge red rooster named Henri and he services nine hens. Archibald unfortunately succumbed to a coyote recently in an ill fated attempt to protect the girls. But that's why we keep roosters, they sacrifice themselves for the good of the flock.

And in your various observations, studies, and dissections have you ever noted the shape and versatility of the pig penis? It's not only corkscrew shaped but it spins on its way to the target and actually screws itself in.

And they say there's not a Goddess....what a wonderful and diverse world we live in.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#299261 - 03/05/17 10:03 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Getting briefly back to topic, I made the green chili chicken echiladas with chicken confit today, as well as a small batch of white chili. The chicken confit is much more tender and supple than even the best chicken breast and lends itself well to any recipe calling for cooked chicken meat.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#299265 - 03/05/17 11:38 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
Getting briefly back to topic...


NO NOT THAT!!!
Turkey sous vide
crispy-tender-confit turkey legs
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/crispy-tender-confit-turkey-legs

Well, I didn’t find any appropriate chicken in the freezer so it was off to the grocery. I selected a pork shoulder, a pack of chicken thighs, and a couple of turkey thigh packs containing a total of 4 thighs. Then I remembered those steaks Greger described, and headed over to the beef counter. I selected a nice ribeye from the showcase and had it wrapped and weighed. I briefly discussed sous vide techniques with the butcher, and his eyes lit up. I then wandered around the store a bit gathering odds and ends that were needed, briefly leaving my cart unattended. When I returned, there was a shopping cart there with a ribeye, a package of skinless chicken breasts, and a number of other items were definitely not mine, and no pork butt. I wandered around a bit looking for whoever had my cart by accident and was hoping that the other shopper would return with my cart. I wandered and wandered, and finally found my cart over by the dairy case, but my selected ribeye was missing. I returned to the butcher counter and selected another, not as nice ribeye, and discussed cattle theft with the butcher who was amused! I returned to the other cart, which remained where I had left it, and recognized the ribeye as the one I originally selected. So I guess the chain of events was that someone took my cart, recognized that, and abandoned the cart but took my ribeye! There was still no one around the other cart, so I just swapped the ribeyes, and left with my original selection.

This obviously considerably delayed my progress! I’m now gathering my sous vide equipment, and studying the recipes again. I found some recipes for whole turkey legs, the drumstick and thigh, and will be trying that, any suggestions?

They suggest searing before and after the sous vide process. So I’m wondering if anyone has tried this? I know searing is best done in a very hot cast-iron vessel, but it does make a big mess. I have a large selection of torches, including those for brazing, and I’ve previously used some braising steak, well not really braising, but finishing with flame. I’m wondering about any experiences with flame finishing, after sous vide, which has considerable appeal, as after the sous vide, the meat can be fragile. I note that you deep fat fry it, that is less likely to disintegrated the meat than searing, and I could do that, but I don’t keep a deep fat fryer active, to help avoid temptation to fry and die!

I’ve long had a fascination with fire, and find it useful for many things conventional and unconventional. I have micro torches which run on propane/acetylene/oxygen, used for jewelry work, moderate size propane/natural gas/oxygen, for plumbing, glassblowing, and brazing, and one of those large propane torches used for burning weeds etc., that hooks to the standard propane tank with a hose. The largest torch is what I’ve used for steaks, that were a bit thin, and rare in the middle, but had not browned to my satisfaction. I see multiple demonstrations online for something called Searsall, etc. cooking steaks, or at least finishing them. The advantage of the large torch is a you have a much larger spread, and a more homogeneous distribution of heat. You can’t do this up close, but the large flame allows a much longer working distance. Who of you out there have experimented with torch cookery? And, speaking of torches, I have my eye on one of those large wok cookers, multiple hundreds of thousands of BTUs, that can also be used for deep fat frying whole turkeys, and setting your house on fire. I cannot really use a wok adequately in my kitchen, but on the deck anything goes even in winter.

Back to the waterworks!
Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#299275 - 03/06/17 04:14 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Turkey legs and thighs should confit nicely. Just season them well, add a goodly dollop of olive oil so they are mostly submerged and set the sous vide to 165 for 8 hours(or use the numbers in your linked recipe)

Pre-searing sounds like a good idea. I mentioned the Maillard reaction earlier(which has nothing to do with ducks or penises) but is the reaction which occurs when food browns and yields a much improved flavor profile. A good searing should infuse it with a bit of roast turkey flavor.

There will be considerable evaporation so don't do it overnight without covering the water.
You may never cook turkey any other way again. It's just that good. I aint crazy about turkey but I might just try this myself. My kid loves turkey.

I mostly cook in one of these with the matching lid cut out for the immersion pod and highly recommend it for long cooks when evaporation is an issue.

I don't have a torch. But I've thought about getting one with the Searsall attachment. But then again I might not. It's expensive and I'm happy using cast iron. Cast iron clean up always seems worse than it really is. I just scrape out anything that might be stuck to it with a spatula and wipe it clean with a paper towel. Then scour it under running hot water without using soap, soap kills the seasoning. Dry it and then put a few drops of oil in it and spread the oil with a paper towel.

I keep a 3 liter deep fryer loaded and ready to use at all times. I'm gonna die anyway and occasionally frying food isn't liable to hasten it all that much.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#299281 - 03/06/17 06:00 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
Turkey legs and thighs should confit nicely. Just season them well, add a goodly dollop of olive oil so they are mostly submerged and set the sous vide to 165 for 8 hours(or use the numbers in your linked recipe)


That will be happening tonight and should make an interesting breakfast.

Quote:
Pre-searing sounds like a good idea. I mentioned the Maillard reaction earlier(which has nothing to do with ducks or penises) but is the reaction which occurs when food browns and yields a much improved flavor profile. A good searing should infuse it with a bit of roast turkey flavor.


Maillard reaction? Oh yeah it's coming back to me now! Isn't that when an aldehyde, like a reducing sugar, reacts with a primary amine forming a Schiff base that then undergoes Amidori rearrangement under acidic conditions. This also happens in vivo with the non-enzymatic glycosylation that is increased in diabetics due to the increased glucose concentration, and produces the glycosylated hemoglobin used in following glucose control. I read about this somewhere, as I used to be a chemist before the rot set in, and now Only play one at home, but am still a wise ass!

Interaction of 21-dehydrocorticosteroids with peptides
Kiyoshi Sunaga., S.S. Koide. A.H. Tatum.


Department of Biochemistry, Chiba University, School of Medicine, Chiba Japan
The Population Council, The Rockefeller University, New York, N.Y. 10021 U.S.A.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/0005-2787(71)90587-9Get rights and content
Abstract
The reaction of 21-dehydrocorticosteroids with amino acids or peptides in phosphate buffer was studied by measuring the fluorescence spectra of the mixture and by identifying the products formed. Changes in the fluorescence spectra suggest that the steroid reacted with the &#945;-amino group with the formation of a labile Schiff base intermediate. The products of the reaction of 21-dehydrocortisol and glycylglycine were identified as cortisol-21-amine and N-glyoxylglycine.

Quote:
There will be considerable evaporation so don't do it overnight without covering the water.


I got that covered with my automatic Christmas tree watering device, that is no longer working due to job loss from artificial trees.

Quote:
You may never cook turkey any other way again. It's just that good. I aint crazy about turkey but I might just try this myself. My kid loves turkey.

I mostly cook in one of these with the matching lid cut out for the immersion pod and highly recommend it for long cooks when evaporation is an issue.

I don't have a torch. But I've thought about getting one with the Searsall attachment. But then again I might not. It's expensive and I'm happy using cast iron. Cast iron clean up always seems worse than it really is. I just scrape out anything that might be stuck to it with a spatula and wipe it clean with a paper towel. Then scour it under running hot water without using soap, soap kills the seasoning. Dry it and then put a few drops of oil in it and spread the oil with a paper towel.


I am rummaging around looking for plastic Containers that fit my ice chests, or may build a Styrofoam box around it. As for torches, the big weed burner is about 20 bucks at Harbor freight including a Piezoelectric lighter, and if you don't like it for cooking there is always Something in the yard that needs burning. I may modify mine considering the Searsall design. For some reason the neighbors seem to be watching me the torch comes out. It is particularly noticeable night. I also like cast-iron implements, sometimes pre-heated in the oven to high temp. I particularly like it for cornbread, but I fear getting into a discussion of such a religious topic, and almost needs its own thread. It is pretty near indestructible, but when some unnamed person leaves it in the sink with water in it... Living in the snow salt belt has taught me techniques of rust management! (also something for another thread)

Quote:
I keep a 3 liter deep fryer loaded and ready to use at all times. I'm gonna die anyway and occasionally frying food isn't liable to hasten it all that much.


Yeah, I know what you mean! I published and perished anyway!
Thanks for the encouragement, it sure has got me motivated.
Stay tuned for results.
bon appétit
Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
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#299293 - 03/06/17 06:10 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Quote:
The Maillard reaction is a chemical reaction between an amino acid and a reducing sugar, usually requiring the addition of heat. Like caramelization, it is a form of non-enzymatic browning. The reactive carbonyl group of the sugar interacts with the nucleophilic amino group of the amino acid, and interesting but poorly characterized odor and flavor molecules result. This process accelerates in an alkaline environment because the amino groups do not neutralize. This reaction is the basis of the flavoring industry, since the type of amino acid determines the resulting flavor.

In the process, hundreds of different flavor compounds are created. These compounds in turn break down to form yet more new flavor compounds, and so on. Each type of food has a very distinctive set of flavor compounds that are formed during the Maillard reaction. It is these same compounds that flavor scientists have used over the years to create artificial flavors.
more sciency stuff here
So, yeah, I think we're pretty much on the same page. And bear in mind while torching your meat that above 355F a different reaction called pyrolysis occurs. Sometimes referred to as burning. A little bit of pyrolisis is a good thing and gives food a charred flavor. But a little bit too much imparts bitterness and a burned flavor. But as many torches as you seem to have on hand I'm going to assume you are pretty skilled in their usage.

While I won't necessarily vouch for the products sold by Omaha Steaks the styrofoam coolers they ship their frozen foods in are awesome. I've got a pile of them of varying sizes I collected over the years and one of the smaller ones(about 12x12x8 inches) fits my 12 quart sous vide setup perfectly. It might be worth ordering some things from them just to get the cooler.
I do overnight cooks out in the summer kitchen and even though nighttime temps here are in the mid 50s this time of year I don't see any point in overworking the immersion pod so I insulate it.

Quote:
the big weed burner is about 20 bucks at Harbor freight including a Piezoelectric lighter, and if you don't like it for cooking there is always Something in the yard that needs burning.
I'll look into that, but as I am a modernist in cooking so am I a man of modernist yardwork. I've got a garden sprayer and a jug of Roundup that burns the weeds not just to the ground but to the very root!

I just had a sous vide hamburger for lunch. Cooked a couple weeks ago and frozen in the bag it was cooked it. I dropped it in a 140 degree water bath to thaw it(about 10 minutes) then seared it in butter in a small cast iron skillet. Simply magnificent!
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#299294 - 03/06/17 06:14 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
The Chicken thighs are in the sous vide! I chickened out last nite, about leaving a water pumping heat source unobserved overnight. I am a firm believer in Murphey's law, and had a roll of Murphy law toilet paper, with the many corollaries, hanging on the most troublesome pieces of equipment.

It had previously had a recirculating circuit through plastic hose, to allow a large reservoir of hot water to decrease the time needed to get to canning temperatures. This has been removed, and the most likely fail, leaking hose connection, has been eliminated.

My tank is too long to fit in a styrofoam cooler, so it is now temporarily covered with reflective duct insulation (Reflectix), R3-5, and IR reflectance of 94%.

Chicken Confit for dinner!
Will post results when done gorging!
Tat
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#299310 - 03/07/17 03:55 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
You'll get that setup humming along and along. More than anything you want it to be easy to use and highly forgettable once you set it running.
This is the perfect container
I don't know if the insulation is even necessary, I just feel better using it. My stove pulls a lot more power and I'm not inclined to insulate my pots and pans to conserve energy while I cook. My Gourmia immersion pod says it has a 1200 watt heater. Anova and Joules have 800 watts. I don't really know what that means but the element itself only reaches a max temp of 203 degrees. Max water temp is 190. It doesn't dim the lights or anything when it cuts on and off. The sous vide and the fryer can run on the same circuit with no issues.
I'd rather drop it in a cooler than use that bag they sell for it though. More often than not I just cook with it uncovered on the counter. Lid and insulation are just for overnighters.
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#299311 - 03/07/17 04:29 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Greger is right on about the chicken confit! It melts in your mouth with intense flavor of what aromatics you selected. I have no fresh herb, in the frozen tundra, except for the Rosemary who winters in the bay window, as after only 30 plus years, I learned that Rosemary is not a perennial here! Thyme and oregano return every year.

I seared the skin side before sue vide, and noticed that already the skin was detaching. I think that an entire leg with drumstick and thigh would be more forgiving as the skin would be continuous and be better retained. They were more fragile after sous vide, and I ended up lightly broiling them with application of the flavored oil from the bags.

I had to add another 1/4 cup of olive oil to each quart bag to be able to seal them without voids, but this is no problem as I will have many uses for the savory oil.

Another possible error was the use of the stand up quart bags, that hindered sealing without air. Live and learn! It seemed like a good idea at the time... Frequently heard in Emergency Rooms.

My wife will surely appreciate the addition of vacuum lines and pressurized air outlets, all labs have these every 6 feet of counter.

I have the rest of the thighs marinating in Achiote Paste with a mix of citrus, including lime, orange, and grapefruit, as sour oranges never make it this far north. The goal is pseudo-Cochinita Pibil, that actually requires a pig and a pit of coals, that aint gonna happen up here.

The pork butt will be divided and some marinated with the leftovers from above, and I am looking to convert much of the rest to carnitos! So many carnitos in restaurants are tough and dry, and there are abundant sous vide remedies for that.

Any suggestions of carnito recipes! The only limitation of the sous vide process, is that you cant make taste guided corrections along the way.

That will not be a problem with the ribeye, as in the end the secret is in the sauce! I saw a Gorgonzola steak topping that looked scrumptious, and while perusing the fridge I found a pack of Blue Stilton. We had a great appetizer up in Jasper a while ago that was a Stilton Fondue served with crusty bread with pickled veggies. My wife was skeptical but was converted by the taste. I even pickled veggies, cauliflower, carrots, and peppers last summer for this dish, but it never happened. Hi dear whats for dinner on our slimming diet? Well I have planned this fondue... It is worth dying for!

Tat
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#299312 - 03/07/17 04:53 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
My heating circulating unit fits on the end of an elongated clear plastic container. It mates with both corners on the end, but that can be modified to fit a corner of any rectangular enclosure. The circulation is strong enough to see herb pulsation in the bag, but also tended to suck the bags rolleyes into the intake orifice. I ended up clipping the bags to the container with those big double handle paper clips.

Everything take 10x time on the first effort. I kept an eye on it all day, and now am confident to leave it un-watched, even overnight. I took off the insulation, to be able to watch it better, and with just a slab of styrofoam covering it, it needed no water addition over 8 hrs. The unit pretty much seals its end, and the syro covered the rest. Its going to be a piece of cake!

BTW do you bake, other than living in the steamy south which is more a braise than bake. I have been hankering to get into sourdough, but on thing at a time. I saw the bread special on PBS, and was hooked, on the idea. If you try to live on flour you die, but if you let the yeastie boys loose on it you get protein and other goodies from their tiny bodies. Though the Christian would disagree, you can live on bread alone!

Tat
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#299320 - 03/07/17 02:48 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
I don't bake as much as I used to but yes. More often than not I use a bread machine to mix and knead the dough then take it out and bake it in the oven. I'm also fond of the simple no-knead recipes where you mix the flour, salt, water, and a tiny amount of yeast and let it sit overnight to ferment. I was unimpressed with sourdough. Too much work, too much waste. All that feeding and discarding became a nuisance. But I got some interesting bread out of it. Some of the fluffiest loaves I've ever baked. As a science experiment you might find it fun and rewarding, as an avocation, like me, you'll probably tire of it and go back to simpler methods. But by all means give it a shot...uh...if you already know how to bake bread. If you aren't a baker yet learn the basics first before jumping into the world of sourdough.

What brand sous vide pod are you using? I kind of assumed Anova, I use the Gourmia brand. Your description has confused me a little.
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#299321 - 03/07/17 02:51 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
It just dawned on me...you're a science guy....you brought home a Poly Science unit from the lab didn't you! You dog!
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#299322 - 03/07/17 03:06 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1540
Loc: Middle, USA
OK, you made me look it up. I live in that vast wasteland between the two coasts and it takes a while for new things to get here.

So, you seal food in a plastic bag and give it a water bath ... basically? Do they have non BPA (and non other toxic chemicals) bags? That part worries me a bit. Wonder if you could use a canning jar.
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#299328 - 03/07/17 05:20 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Spag-hetti]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
OK, you made me look it up. I live in that vast wasteland between the two coasts and it takes a while for new things to get here.

So, you seal food in a plastic bag and give it a water bath ... basically? Do they have non BPA (and non other toxic chemicals) bags? That part worries me a bit. Wonder if you could use a canning jar.


Yes, that is exactly what it "boils" down to. There are other slow cooking methods crocpots and braising, but for me the major advantage is demonstrated in the following graph.

Those concerned with poultry food safety spend much of their time poking chicken chunks with quick response thermometers to make sure that internal temperature reaches the magic 165F.
To reach that internal temp the outer portions are frequently overcooked, think skinless un-marinated chicken breasts on the BBQ grill. Thick steaks have the similar problem, if you want the center rare but the rest edible.

Sous vide allows you to reach a safe temp without over cooking the rest. Bacteria of interest are certainly killed quickly at 165, but are just as dead at lower temps in the table, just for longer time periods.

The bags are food grade and polyethylene, and do not need mold release chemicals or plastizers like pthalates. I have a roll of mylar with polyethyene sheet that you can just fold so poly sides are together, and then seal with an iron or heat sealer.

Hadnt considered canning jars, but sure they would work but they should be topped up. If only partially filled leaving air, it would be equivalent to a mini crocpot. Low temp canning procedures are approved for some things like pickles that are high acid, but not meat.

Convenience is also a big factor particularly in restaurants, (or guest diners) as steaks and chicken can be sterilized by sous vide and stored closed if not opened, breaking sterility, and seared quickly when needed for serving.

I am sure Greger will have his comments and advice to add.

Tat




Edited by TatumAH (03/07/17 05:26 PM)
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#299333 - 03/07/17 07:15 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Do they have non BPA (and non other toxic chemicals) bags?

Yes. Regular ziplock bags work perfectly and are BPA free. The rolls of bag material sold for vacuum sealing units are also BPA free. The polycarbonate food storage container I cook in is not BPA free but the water never comes into contact with the food.

Tat's graph didn't load but I've seen it and it explains that longer times at lower temps kill pathogens just as well as that 165 degree number we were all familiar with. 165 is an instant kill number but with ordinary cooking methods the outside of the food must be grossly over cooked for before the internal temp ever reaches 165.
Hence the dried out chicken breasts we are all accustomed to. The sous vide method gently brings all the meat to the desired temperature and holds it there for a specified period of time. Since the temperature is precisely regulated even if you leave it in the water bath for much longer than the prescribed time it still doesn't overcook. An engineer from the Polyscience corporation, which makes the machines for laboratories to grow icky things under precisely controlled conditions, took the idea to food scientists and chefs to see if it was possible to cook food this way. It has been a smashing success and restaurants everywhere are using it now. It didn't take it long to move into the home cooking sphere.

This is not some sort of food fad any more than the microwave was.
But microwaves are AWFUL. Hot spots, cold spots, uneven temps and questionable times depending on the power of the microwave. A frozen, raw chicken breast will get half overcooked while the other half is still frozen. Nowadays I precook all the chicken breasts I buy the day I buy them, then freeze them in the bag they were cooked in. You can do the same with steaks, burgers, or any other meat. When it's time to cook dinner I fill the sous vide tank with hot water, and set it to heating. It only takes a few minutes to reach 140 degrees. Drop whatever frozen precooked meat you choose and drop it in the tank. In ten minutes you're good to go.
You can store any leftover vegetables, soups, stews, etouffes, or anything else in a ziplock or vacuum sealed container bag and bring it up to serving temp in minutes.

Canning jars? Yes! There are a lot of recipes for cooking things sous vide in jars. Starbucks has recently added Sous Vide Egg Bites to their menu. Easy breezy to do at home in 4 ounce jars. I don't care much for them though. Too dense. I like my eggs fried or scrambled English style. Custard desserts are also done in canning jars. Flans or Pots de Creme are easy and delicious.
But for the most part...bags work best.

The big deal about sous vide cooking is that you get perfectly cooked food every time with very little effort. You can get set up to do it for about $125 including the immersion pod, the polycarbonate container and the lid for it which you cut out with a pair of scissors for the pod to fit in.

I probably repeated some of what Tat said but I just sort of set my fingers typing and whatever comes out is nearly beyond my control.
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#299380 - 03/08/17 08:38 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1540
Loc: Middle, USA
Thanks, guys. This is really interesting and I could be the first on my block ...
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#299381 - 03/08/17 09:43 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Spag-hetti]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
Thanks, guys. This is really interesting and I could be the first on my block ...


Hi Spag,

I feel it is my solemn responsibility to warn you about the obsessive disorder that can arise from the experience related to the total immersion baptism of sous vide! It is similar to other well recognized repetitive disorders that you may recognize, for example weedeater and powerwasher madness. Suddenly everything needs either the attention of the weedeater, or a good powerwashing. Takes the fleas right off the cats, though they tend to vanish for a while.

Any way, I blame all this on Greger, who fanned the flames of my smouldering interest into a full blown sous vide madness. The final stages of this have produced a new and very crippling condition the sous vide earworm that is devilishly purrsistent. I caught it from Greger and I hesitate to pass it on, but maybe it wont be as chronic in someone who wasnt around during its hayday, circa 1967-8.
OOOPS! No not the pork butt video (now bathing in the sous vide bath)


This one! My frenzied mind transposed sous vide into Sweet Pea, and so it remains going round and round and round. Very Catchy isnt it. Try not to think about it, you have been warned. Here are the lyrics to help you forget it!

Oh Sue Vide
Wontcha let me be
Wontcha, wontcha, wontcha,
Let me be-e-e-e

Tat

TOMMY ROE
"Sweet Pea"

Oh, Sweet Pea
Come on and dance with me
Come on, come on, come on and dance with me
Oh, Sweet Pea
Won't you be my girl
Won't you, won't you, won't you be my girl

I went to a dance just the other night
I saw a girl there she was out of sight
I asked a friend of mine who she could be
He said that her friends just call her Sweet Pea

Oh, Sweet Pea
Come on and dance with me
Come on, come on, come on and dance with me
Oh, Sweet Pea
Won't you be my girl
Won't you, won't you, won't you be my girl

I walked on over and I asked her to dance
Thinkin' maybe later on
We'd be makin' romance
But every guy there was thinkin'like me
I had to stand in line
To get a dance with Sweet Pea

Oh, Sweet Pea
Come on and dance with me
Come on, come on, come on and dance with me
Oh, Sweet Pea
Won't you be my girl
Won't you, won't you, won't you be my girl

I finally got to whisper sweet words in her ear
Convinced her that we oughta get away from there
We took a little walk
I held her close to me
And underneath the stars I said to Sweet Pea

Oh, Sweet Pea I love you can't you see
Love you, love you, love you can't you see
Oh, Sweet Pea
Won't you be my girl
Won't you, won't you, won't you be my girl
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#299388 - 03/09/17 01:17 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
I find this site one of the most helpful as it shows and describes the various meats with various times and temps. Oh Sue Vee

For example here are details for handling your pork.
I had a pork butt dissected as above and them 1" portions were sliced and considered as pork steaks or chops. The 60C sounded a bit rare to me and the 65 a little too done. I split the difference at 63C. and after 3.5 hours the pork was white through and through, and very tender and juicy, with just a bit of bite. I like my meat to resist a little with a predesignated safe word, uhh I mean safe temp! The gristle was gelatinous, but the pork was not yet pull-able. On sampling I thought it under-seasoned, due to hasty marinade, so I added 4 sprigs of fresh Rosemary, and absolutely no Jack of Hearts, [video:youtube]https://vimeo.com/81862481[/video] and a couple of tbsb of olive oil and resealed the bag and resumed the sous vide. Stay tuned.

Loose associations? No just right thanks!
Tat
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#299391 - 03/09/17 03:50 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
And I thought I was an obsessive cook...Tat's gone right off the deep end of the water bath.

I saw in the OH Sue Vee Porkchop link a recipe for Canadian bacon. I buy it from time to time and I really want to like it. But it's tough and dry and regular ham seems a bit more better with my eggs in the morning. But apparently if you cook it overnight(in the package it came in) at 145 degrees it transforms into something tender and delicious.

Gonna hafta give this one a try.
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#299416 - 03/09/17 11:58 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1592
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
A possibly interesting aside. Since the popularity of these things has gone up Goodwill can no longer keep donated vacuum machines (mostly Foodsaver brand) in stock and they are flying off the shelf (for, of course, the right price <G>). I know this because I have been trying to buy one for my son, who I gifted with a sous vide machine and he wanted the vacuum machine so I eventually found him one for 10 bucks. I also noticed that Foodsaver are selling reconditioned ones for 70.00 or less.

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#299417 - 03/10/17 01:07 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: jgw]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3691
Loc: Eugene, OR
Greger has a lot to answer for-----
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#299418 - 03/10/17 01:32 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Ken Condon]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8494
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
Greger has a lot to answer for-----

I wonder how much he's pulling down?
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#299423 - 03/10/17 03:19 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I wonder how much he's pulling down?

I do it just out of the goodness of my heart.

Everyone should eat as good as I do.

I liked my Gourmia sous vide pod so much I ordered their vacuum sealer. $60 bucks or so, Should be arriving any day now.
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#299425 - 03/10/17 03:45 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
I wonder how much he's pulling down?

I do it just out of the goodness of my heart.

Everyone should eat as good as I do.

I liked my Gourmia sous vide pod so much I ordered their vacuum sealer. $60 bucks or so, Should be arriving any day now.


Well, that sucks!

Tat



Edited by TatumAH (03/10/17 03:56 AM)
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#299428 - 03/10/17 06:12 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Ken Condon]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
Greger has a lot to answer for-----


I will heartily agree with that!!
And, that reminds me of what I thought was a very funny scene from "The West Wing", a fantasy show from early 2000s, when the White House was populated by literate sophisticated intellectuals who were also honest and honorable! I think all current denizens in the White House should be strapped to their chairs and forced to watch every episode to get some understanding about their job descriptions and oaths of office. I know they would attempt to look away in shame, after 20 or so hours, but we have ways to thwart that!

Like something subtle from Clockwork Orange. One would hope that enhanced coercive techniques an abuse by Moby's Dick could be avoided...


Quote:
CUT TO: INT. THE OVAL OFFICE - DAY
Bartlet is accepting papers from the newly named ambassador of Sweden. The ambassador's wife and two children are in the room, so is the Presenter and a few men with cameras.
BARTLET: I think a lot of people don't realize that Swedes have lived in Sweden more than 5,000 years longer than nearly any other European people.
AMBASSADOR: That's right, sir.
BARTLET: In fact, Gothic tribes from Sweden played a major role in the disintegration of the Roman Empire, did they not?
AMBASSADOR: They did.
BARTLET: So you've got that to answer for!
AMBASSADOR: [smiling] Yes, sir!
Bartlet laughs. Leo enters the office.

TOM: Mr. President, it is with pleasure that I present his Excellency Peter Hans of Sweden, and by request of the Secretary of State ask that you accept his credentials
from king Karl Gustav as Sweden's ambassador to the United States.
BARTLET: [puts his eyeglasses on] Mr. Hans, I accept your letter of credence from king Gustav, and, by affixing my signature and seal, do hereby declare you to be an Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary. [returns the papers]
AMBASSADOR: Thank you, Mr. President.
BARTLET: Congratulations. [They shake hands.]
TOM: Mr. Ambassador. [shows Hans to a spot next to Bartlet] Family, please. They pose for pictures. Leo shakes hands with Hans.
LEO: Congratulations, Ambassador.
AMBASSADOR: Leo.
LEO: Is he still holding you responsible for the fall of the Roman Empire?
AMBASSADOR: Oh, yes.
LEO: Welcome to my world.
I'll see you at the reception, right?
AMBASSADOR: Yes, sir.

LEO: Congratulations.


Tat


Edited by TatumAH (03/10/17 07:54 AM)
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#299448 - 03/11/17 02:38 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
I don't know about yall, but I eat every day. Sometimes three times. And I want every meal to be good. In the morning, my eggs are freshly laid, still warm from the chicken, my coffee comes down from Washington state. Deadman's Reach from Raven's Brew coffee company..."Served in Bed It Wakes the Dead".
As soon as breakfast is done, I'm thinking about lunch. Today I made Mulligatawny soup. A simple chicken rice soup with some curry powder, garam masala and a diced Granny Smith apple. No sous vide involved, just 4 chicken thighs stewed with aromatic vegetables and some unusual spices. it was delicious, but...the pack of chicken thighs I pulled out of the freezer was somewhat larger than I needed eight thighs(bone in skin on) and I had to thaw all of them so they all needed to be cooked. So I seasoned and bagged them and set them burbling away in a 165 degree water bath. I let them go all day and essentially had chicken confit at the end. When they were done and I was hungry again, which always seems to happen. I set them skin side up for a while to dry off then dipped them in seasoned flour, then in buttermilk, then back into the flour and I dropped them in the fryer.
Everyone who's ever made fried chicken knows that the trick isn't to get a crispy delectable skin on them but to get the inside of the chicken safely cooked while doing it. Once again, sous vide eliminates the guesswork. The chicken was already perfectly cooked and it only took minutes to turn it into the best fried chicken I've ever had.
bon appetit, yall.
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#299451 - 03/11/17 03:22 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
Today I made Mulligatawny soup. A simple chicken rice soup with some curry powder, garam masala and a diced Granny Smith apple. No sous vide involved, just 4 chicken thighs stewed with aromatic vegetables and some unusual spices. it was delicious, but...


There is no butt, after an admission of guilt!

Completely off-topic, and, where is a Mod when a chicken battering is taking place! Chicken lives batter!
And Granny too, she should sous!

Repeat after me:
Oh Sue Vee Wontcha dance with me! repeat as needed...
Tat
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#299461 - 03/11/17 06:08 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
So I seasoned and bagged them and set them burbling away in a 165 degree water bath. I let them go all day and essentially had chicken confit at the end. When they were done and I was hungry again, which always seems to happen. I set them skin side up for a while to dry off then dipped them in seasoned flour, then in buttermilk, then back into the flour and I dropped them in the fryer.
Everyone who's ever made fried chicken knows that the trick isn't to get a crispy delectable skin on them but to get the inside of the chicken safely cooked while doing it. Once again, sous vide eliminates the guesswork. The chicken was already perfectly cooked and it only took minutes to turn it into the best fried chicken I've ever had.
bon appetit, yall.


This is definitely the way to go for fried chicken. A small hot oil vessel would be sufficient for this number of pieces.
Traditional chicken frying makes such a mess with splatters everywhere even using a screen. And the results, for someone who doesnt do it every day, are highly variable, even with constant attention.

I did a 2 inch ribeye last night with S+P and garlic with 3 hrs SV @134F/56.5C.
Seared with butter in smokin cast iron pans heated in the oven to 450F, and rotated to an induction hotplate to keep the temp high. Lots of smoke alarms! One cast iron skillet was low profile more like a griddle, that allowed controlled regular old propane torch searing of some fatty areas on the perimeter, without the problem of inverting the propane tank. There were a couple of small flareups that added to the excitement, but not dangerous. Last step is to crisp the top surface with the residual hot butter poured on top, just before serving. This could be a dramatic performance art scenario for guests outside. Chefs know that presentation is very important for diner satisfaction.
The steak was a purrfect medium rare, with a crusty surface that needed no sauce or other distraction. And marvelously tender and juicy with just the right amount of bite.

I could not imagine an improvement of this! Once you go SV, ya never go back!

The flame up show may not be advisable in drought areas with high forest fire risks. Though now recently saturated California may be OK for a while.

Tat


Edited by TatumAH (03/11/17 06:15 PM)
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#299761 - 03/19/17 04:18 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
I had some pork roasts from the separated pork butt/shoulder in the garage, fridge annex, in the winter here. I sliced them into 1" steaks, and seasoned with a dry rub Cajun Foreplay along with S+P and sealed dry in bags. After 4 hrs at 60C, I seared one, but was not happy with the result, as a steak. The sous vide left the fat, very well "marbled" intact with an unpleasant texture. The meat was tender, but as expected the pork was not pullable. Plan B was to drench the chops in an acid citrus mix of orange, lemmon, and lime, crushed tomatoes, garlic, sliced onions, with cumin, oregano, annatto/achiote paste, and moderate dosing with ground chiles. Four more hours in the covered roasting pan at 225F did not render the fat to a floating oil pool as is the case with a temp of 325-350F. Overcooking at 325-50 at this point usually yields a dry unpleasent texture of denatured protein, that is resistant to softening with sauce. This may be related to the additional denaturization from the acid envionment, as is intentional acid treatment in the preps of ceviche.

The plan C salvage involved tightly wrapping the individual steaks in Aluminum foil, and baking at 350 for 1-2 hrs. This treatment did produce the desired effect of nicely pullable pork with a tender moist structure/texture, and the abundant fat was easily separable from the meat. This defatted meat with the, left over sauce, was very tender and delicious. This was excellent taco and burrito filling, and much more tender than the usual carnitas. There will be many meals from these left overs.

Cochinta Pibil addicts will recognize the seasonings as that Yucateco specialty. Authentic Pibil require a pig in a pit that are not practical in the frozen tundra up Nawth! Rick Baylis has a good, but complicated, recipe, but does have a good description of the classic accompaniments of pickled red onions and habanero salsa.

Bayliss Cocinita Pibil, pickled onion and habenero salse

Happy SV to all
Tat


Edited by TatumAH (03/19/17 04:23 PM)
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#299781 - 03/19/17 10:50 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Quote:
After 4 hrs at 60C, I seared one, but was not happy with the result

I imagine not. That would be the maximum cook time for a pork chop. It would be only slightly different from a pork chop cooked at 140F(60C) for one hour.
I did pork chops today. 1 hour at 140. I wasn't happy with the result either and next time will reduce the temp to 135.

To get anything like pulled pork you're going to have to do a 24 hour cook at somewhere between 145 and 165. Ideally with a whole boneless Boston Butt.
Recipe

I just did two corned beef briskets for that Irish Holiday, you know, a celebration of the gent who drove the snakes(Druids) out of Ireland.
I did one at 180 for 10 hours. It was as good as the best slow cooker corned beef, but nothing special.
I did another at 154 for 24 hours. It was corned beef perfection. Similar to deli corned beef which was my goal.
If you want a really falling apart corned beef they recommend 48 hours at 135.

At sous vide temps it takes a long long time to break down the collagen.
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#299788 - 03/20/17 02:36 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
After 4 hrs at 60C, I seared one, but was not happy with the result

[quote]I imagine not. That would be the maximum cook time for a pork chop. It would be only slightly different from a pork chop cooked at 140F(60C) for one hour.
I did pork chops today. 1 hour at 140. I wasn't happy with the result either and next time will reduce the temp to 135./quote]

I knew you were going to say that, but I was doing an experiment. I see the pork chop/steak pages with the various temps with the shrinkage factors, and I chose the 60C temp but watched the bags closely for shrinkage, hard to judge, but more watching fluid accumulation in the bags. It was really minimal, particularly compared to chicken thighs. Not much after one hour, and not much more at each hour up till 4. I think it might have been somewhat dehydrated by sitting in the fridge temp garage loosely covered and low humidity. I pulled the plug on the pork sous vide and oven braised it 4 hr at too low a temp of 125F, that failed to render the fat.

Took the steaks up to 325 for an hour and they pulled nicely. I removed most of the fat and then added the rest of the sauce and gave it an hour warming in the oven covered at 125F. The pulled very tender white meat took up the sauce very nicely. Made tacos with the meat, and I like to include the soft lemon and lime slices with the meat, topped by the pickled onions, and habenero salsa. Nice layering of flavors and burn. The meat was superbly tender without any dryness, as I usually notice in restaurant carnitas. Not sure what to call it.

If I repeat something like this, I will probably sous vide the steaks for an 1-1/2 hours at 60C. And then just pop them into the oven with the sauce at 325F and keep an eye on them to prevent overcooking to dryness. The sous vide did provide an advantage, in that I could mix the SV pork, which was now sterile, and was able to adjust the taste of the sauce at the beginning of the oven phase, something I would not do with raw pork, chicken or beef (I dont do seafood).

I will be shopping for some corned beef, as they will likely be sale priced after St. Pattys, and will trying some of your suggestions, and tell you about my new "discoveries".

My bride is back in town, and I have been getting some feedback about her incredible enthusiasm for all the equipment in the lab, uhh, kitchen. I euphemistically call such feedback, background music!

Tat

To get anything like pulled pork you're going to have to do a 24 hour cook at somewhere between 145 and 165. Ideally with a whole boneless Boston Butt.
Recipe

I just did two corned beef briskets for that Irish Holiday, you know, a celebration of the gent who drove the snakes(Druids) out of Ireland.
I did one at 180 for 10 hours. It was as good as the best slow cooker corned beef, but nothing special.
I did another at 154 for 24 hours. It was corned beef perfection. Similar to deli corned beef which was my goal.
If you want a really falling apart corned beef they recommend 48 hours at 135.

At sous vide temps it takes a long long time to break down the collagen.
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#299806 - 03/20/17 03:02 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
I'm having a hard time getting myself to try pulled pork in the sous vide. Sous vide is an excellent new tool in the toolbox, but it isn't the end all and be all of cooking. Some things are best accomplished with dry heat.
Pulled pork is one of these.

For perfect pulled pork a 200 degree oven is the best way to go. A 6-8 pound bone in Boston Butt will take 12 to 14 hours at this temperature, depending on your oven. It wants to stay in there until the internal temp reaches at least 185. I generally put them in at midnight for dinner service the next day, allowing a full 18 hours assuming dinner starts at sixish. Then I check the internal temp at noon the next day. If it hasn't reached 185 by 4 o'clock then bump the temp to 225. When it reaches 185 shut the oven off and just let it sit. Or, if you need the oven, wrap it in foil and hold it in a cooler until service. After appetizers and cocktails, and when the sides are ready, present the meat, put it on a large platter, put on some rubber gloves and amaze your guests with the ease it pulls apart. Serve it with slider buns and a variety of barbecue sauces.

I've never weighed one after I took it out but it will be noticeably lighter, perhaps 2 pounds or more will be lost, but there will be nothing dry about the meat. The ample fat in a Boston Butt is almost completely rendered and most of it stays inside the meat, replacing the water that was lost during the cook time.
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#299831 - 03/21/17 01:50 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Yep. I agree completely, but as we discussed, when you find your lost hammer, everything takes a beating for a while. Not the sharpest tool, ya know!

I also use the oven, as neither the gas powered grill or gas smoker are thermostated, and it is a chore watching butts all day. I no longer, never again, cook butts in real time for guests. Lazy butt, butt stall, and butt lag make precision timing maddeningly unpredictable. For those new to pork butts, there is a slow increase in temp vs cooking time, and then around 160 or so, everything appears to come to a halt and the temp hangs there for an unpredictable time. First time it happens, you check your flame, thermometer, gas tanks, wind speed and sun/shade variations. Its apparently due to an energy requiring intra-butt process, breaking down connective tissue to gelatin (melting/denaturation), and probably also conversion of solid fat to liquid fat/oil much of which stays in the meat. Regardless of the process each butt is unique and I know no way to predict lag times. I may experiment to test various theories in the summer.

I like to dry rub them and then start them on the BBQ with wood smoke added, or the smoker for a couple of hours then transfer to oven for howtheheck ever long it takes by temp.

Either smoke method can give the pink smoke ring/zone under the surface. For biochem fans, its due to carbon monoxide binding to myoglobin, a main muscle protein, in a manner very similar to the binding to hemoglobin, giving CO fatality corpses a cherry pink glow. Which reminds me about the corned beef Greger cooked. The pink color of those pickled meats is typically due to nitrite, or slower nitrates in the brine, once again binding to the same oxygen binding site in myoglobin. (PM me for details)grin
CO treatment is also used to keep steaks looking red in stores, even if they are spoiled, they still look purty!

May experiment with nitrites to get a fake smoke ring on a butt, but not CO as experimental CO generators can be problematic. CO monitors keep blaring till the batteries are removed, and the cats slow down.

So what do you think? 60C for 3-4 days?
Tat
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#299833 - 03/21/17 02:06 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Food Lab says 165F(74C) for 18-24 hours. Then 1 1/2 hours in the oven at 300 to put the bark on it.
They mention using Prague powder for the smoke ring but to me that seems kind of frivolous.
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#299834 - 03/21/17 02:29 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Worse than frivolous! From the label The prague powder #1 is just Nitrite with no flavor. So why add a potential toxin, except to pretend to be the local pit boss? Might as well just use red dye #3, which is also an ingredient!
Tat

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#299998 - 03/26/17 03:31 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Eight hours and 5 minutes at 64C, so far, for a batch of turkey thighs con fit. Breakfast at 8 AM would be 16 hrs, so maybe brunch would be better. Do warm turkey thighs go better with a bloody mary or a mimosa?

Tat
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#300000 - 03/26/17 03:47 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
I'd pair that with the bloody marys. And maybe a cup of Italian roast coffee.
My next sous vide experiment will be with some sliced breakfast ham.
63C overnight should beak down the connective tissue and make the ham meltingly tender.
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#300003 - 03/26/17 04:09 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
My options for breakfast are somewhat limited by my visceral aversion to eggs, even slightly not very well done. This may be related to breaking open 30-60 embryonated eggs/ day in grad school, removing their cartilage pelvic rudiments for endocrinology research. Almost every session had at least one bad exposive egg, damn lazy roosters, that were kind of ripe after 10-12 days incubating at 37C. I considered at the time, looking at my waste bucket, that if whipped a bit would make a chicken/veal omlet, that likely reinforced my aversion. Their most prominent features, at that stage, are their eyes!


On the other hand, even as a child I could only eat eggs, over very severely,and most sincerely seared, till nicely browned on both sides. So with that purrspective, I suppose that I could have chosen that field of research to get even with eggs and their associates. The subconscious is an interesting place to explore.
Coddled eggs sick



Tat
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#300006 - 03/26/17 04:36 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Ham and biscuits for you then...hold the eggs. Would you like a side of grits with that?
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#300008 - 03/26/17 04:51 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
Ham and biscuits for you then...hold the eggs. Would you like a side of grits with that?

Hominy ya got? Enough to share with a friend?

Tat
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#300055 - 03/27/17 10:59 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
I am curious: Has anybody used a crockpot as the vessel and heating element, with a precise drop in temperature sensor to control the crockpot heater? I would think I could easily get to within one degree by using some proportional control. This could be much cheaper for lots of folks than buying fancy water recirculators.

Crockpots heat from the bottom, so the water should circulate by convection.

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#300056 - 03/27/17 01:39 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Hot water is hot water as far as the food cares. Most hot pots are fairly low wattage devices, at least my vintage one were. So they would be slow to reach temp with cold food added. I haven't checked their temp regulation, but stick in a thermometer and watch it for a while. I fill my vessels with hot water from the tap, that would be too hot for having kids in the house around 64C. In a pot, you could just add hot water with the food, such that the starting temp is reached at the beginning of timing. Some low tech sous vide setups just had an insulated pot of water, and hot water was added as needed. This is ok for short times, less than 4 hrs, but a pain.

Convection should work ok in a crock pot, but it shouldn't be overloaded with food packs that would slow the convection.

Try it and monitor it, and in the trials try to calibrate the heating dial so you can figure out what temps are preset by the low, med, and high settings. Old time pots with just low watt heaters and mechanical bimetallic thermostats were cheap and relatively foolproof.. Havent evaluated the newer digital pots, but I am not thrilled the longevity with fancy electronic circuitry around hot water and steam.

Tat
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#300057 - 03/27/17 02:49 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8494
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Or if you want even lower tech...

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#300058 - 03/27/17 03:52 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: logtroll]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
If the explorer had goretex rainwear they might have been able to sous vide him. Stick some bay leaves and bouquet garni in the pockets, and have someone tend the fire. Timing needs to be adjusted for marbling and lean body weight, that could be estimated by the floatation level during the brining phase.
Bone appetat
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#300063 - 03/27/17 06:54 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
figure out what temps are preset by the low, med, and high settings


No, that's a system with no feedback at all. I can tell you right now that temperatures would go up too high and be affected by all sorts of variables. I don't think they even have set temperatures. They just have different wattage heating elements. I'm talking about a system where the crock pot is set to high and the current switched on and off by a thermostatic controller with a specific temperature set.

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#300067 - 03/27/17 07:56 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
If crockpot is just an AC heating element without digital circuits, a thermostated controller (see below) $10-15 may be all you need. just plug HP into controller and put the sensor into the pot fluid and dial in temp.

If there are fancy digital circuits that arent working, you may be able to bypass those "safety" devices and hotwire the heating element directly into a plug that would go into the controller. Depending on how handy/comfortable you are with electricity/electronics. Probably want to keep it grounded and use a GFI outlet.

Tat

Quote:
Features:
A mini temperature controller.
With large and clear LED display for better readability.
Wide temperature measuring range.
Heating and cooling control.
Temperature calibration function.
Delay protection function.
All parameters can be set to default setting after short circuit.
Can be used for domestic freezer, water tanks, refrigerator, industrial chiller, boiler, steamer, industrial equipments and other temperature-controlled systems.

Specifications:
Working voltage: 90~250V±10%
Rated current: 10A
Power consumption: &#8804;3W
Measurement range: -50~110 Celsius degree
Measurement precision: 0.1 Celsius degree
Measurement error: ±0.3 Celsius degree
Control precision: 0.1 Celsius degree
Working temperature:&#8208;20~70 Celsius degree
Temperature sensor: NTC 25 Celsius degree=10K B3435
Item size: 8.5*7.5*3.5cm / 3.4*3*1.4in
Item weight: 93g / 3oz
Package size: 11*8.5*4.3cm / 4.3*3.4*1.7in
Package weight: Approx. 125g / 4.4oz

Package Includes: H10126
1 * Temperature Controller
1 * Temperature Sensor
1 * Instruction Manual


thermostated controler
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#300068 - 03/27/17 08:00 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
PIA. Get yourself a sous vide circulator. They're cheap and efficient.
I use this one.
I think the base model Anova sells for the same price. You can use a 12 quart stockpot But this container is ideal. The matching lid can be easily cut out to accommodate the circulator and prevent evaporation for long cooking times.

You aint a poor man, you can do this, and I guarantee you'll be happy with the results.

Crock pots simply aren't designed to do the job. They heat up too much and then cool slowly, then heat up too much again. The most low tech method for short cooks is simply to use a small beer cooler, adjust the water temp with hot tap water and boiling water, put your steak in and close it up for an hour. Precision is the name of the game here. The immersion circulator checks the temp every few seconds and constantly adjusts the temperature. The heating element itself never goes above 203F and the max temp setting is 190F.

Yes you could tinker with it and make it more precise but I suspect you'll likely burn out the element bu turning it on and off with the frequency required to maintain the temperature perfectly.
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#300070 - 03/27/17 08:15 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Hominy ya got? Enough to share with a friend?

I could never stand the texture of hominy. Grits is dried ground hominy and much more pleasing to the palate.

I wasn't happy with the ham. It did little more than dry it out and it wasn't any more tender than out of the package. I did make a nice gravy with the liquid from the bag which I served over the ham and biscuits.
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#300072 - 03/27/17 08:57 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
The turkey thigh experience/experiment is probably best left undescribed in public, as homeland security bio hazard investigators may be scanning the internets... but it does remind me of a bizarre and unnerving Procol Harum "tune" on their otherwise outstanding first album.
Quote:
Mabel
Procol Harum
Don't eat green meat it ain't good for you
You know it killed your brother, killed your sister too
Even fresh fried chicken on new-mown sand
Can't beat red beans eaten outa your hand
Oh Mabel, Mabel! You know I love you gal but I'm not able
Mabel, oh Mabel, please get off the kitchen table
Don't slice no onions, don't peel no grape
Dream about banana slice nor sniff around short cake
And if on a winter's day you find your sundial's wrong
You'll know the weather is what's brought it on
Oh Mabel, Mabel! You know I love you gal but I'm not able
Mabel, oh Mabel, please get off the kitchen table


I wondered about ham that is already pretty much denatured by heat and salt curing. Formaldehyde fixation can be slowly renatured, but requires near boiling temps and chelating agents, citrate, oxylate, etc to remove calcium. I dont think most would find the results very palatable, though foodies often describe meals as memorable, and this would likely fit that criterion.

Tat
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#300073 - 03/27/17 09:19 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
PIA. Get yourself a sous vide circulator. They're cheap and efficient.
I use this one.


For a $100 this is impossible to beat!
Compact and very convenient, and would no doubt decrease the "feedback" from my bride, who is becoming increasingly intolerant of the creeping kitchen conversion to research laboratory. Ultrasonic treatment makes an oil and vinegar dressing that doesnt separate!

Tat
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#300080 - 03/28/17 02:21 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Quote:
For a $100 this is impossible to beat!

It fits easily into a kitchen drawer. Doesn't have blue tooth control but that seems kind of silly to me anyway.

Today's experiment was a rack of St. Louis style ribs. Salted, dry rubbed, then five hours at 165F in the sous vide and two in the smoker at 250. They were superb, but not quite perfect. I'll tweak the numbers a little bit next time and maybe dry brine them overnight.
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#300083 - 03/28/17 03:05 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Thats about 74C, higher than I have used. At some point we should be considering another heat transfer fluid with a higher boiling point than water. We used to use mineral oil baths in organic chemisty, but they were pretty messy. Almost all non-braising methods of heat/cooking food have used convection and radiation through air.

It may be interesting to look into temps closer to 100C/212F in sealed bags. Who knows what interesting textures and flavors may result. Going higher would obviously result in steam exploding the bags, unless a heat resistant baggie technology could be tried in a pressure cooker.

What could go worng?
Tat


Edited by TatumAH (03/28/17 04:41 AM)
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#300086 - 03/28/17 07:44 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
My little convection oven will do 150 F or 175 F. I wonder if I could put a ziplock bag in there?

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#300103 - 03/28/17 03:23 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
yes, but the heating would be by air conduction, much less effective than heat conducting by fluid. Times would have to be modified with internal temp monitoring. Slow rise times might even help bugs grow in deep areas, till killing temps were reached. Sounds a bit risky to me.
Tat
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#300136 - 03/29/17 03:17 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Quote:
My little convection oven will do 150 F or 175 F. I wonder if I could put a ziplock bag in there?

Sometime this summer Anova is coming out with a precision oven. It features steam injection and a searing plate.
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#300171 - 03/29/17 09:25 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
Got a cheapo crockpot from WalMart so I can experiment. Our regular crockpot has a start button and resets if the power goes off, which would be incompatible with switching on and off the power. This one just has a single OFF-LOW-HIGH control.

How good are the hot water circulators? Do they keep the temperature within a single degree F? Or does it vary by a few degrees?

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#300173 - 03/29/17 09:52 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Got a cheapo crockpot from WalMart so I can experiment. Our regular crockpot has a start button and resets if the power goes off, which would be incompatible with switching on and off the power. This one just has a single OFF-LOW-HIGH control.

How good are the hot water circulators? Do they keep the temperature within a single degree F? Or does it vary by a few degrees?


Mine is dead steady over many hours or overnight. Not even a half of a degree variation. I read some about the Anova products, and their large claim to fame is their temp stability. I use a real fluid thermometer, as my temp dial is oldstyle analog.

Greger speaks highly of the Anova equipment. Im sure he will chime in!
Tat
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Except that it's lonesome work
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#300185 - 03/30/17 04:41 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
My Gourmia unit might flicker a degree off for a second occasionally during the first hour of a cook, but after that it's rock steady. If I'm using the Centigrade setting it flickers a tenth of a degree off once in a while. I expect the Anova performs the same. I went with Gourmia for the higher wattage heating element. Not sure if that makes any difference at all.

I've got chicken leg confit burbling away now. I just can't get enough of it.
Last time I made it I froze the liquid from the bag so I could reuse the oil, used it a couple times to make gravy too. It's great stuff to have around.

By the way, Tat, what went wrong with the turkey thigh confit?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#300187 - 03/30/17 05:51 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
sick
The turkey thighs came vacuum packed and sat in the fridge/ garage too long. They looked a bit questionable, but without odor. I was afraid to open them for further examination, so I sous vide them right in their sealed packets. I figured I would be able to tell if they were OK after sous vide sterilization, for bio safety. After 18 hr at 64C there was an "aroma" present without opening the factory sealed packets.

If you have sampled dry aged beef, some of the distinctive aroma and taste is from non-pathogenic bacterial growth. After having clinical contact with gas gangrene specimens, Clostridia perfringens, an olfactory association is locked in, that makes aged beef less attractive.

These packs rang that non-dinner bell. Now, concerned about botulinum toxin, but not worried about live bacteria, the packs went into the pressure cooker (autoclave) without opening them, and then gave them 10-15 minutes, that is way beyond the 100C for 5 minutes that is needed to denature and inactivate any bot toxin. They then took an aromatic, but harmless trip down the disposal. I didnt even want them in the garbage bags in the garage. Still it was a "memorable" confit experience, as I could tell by feel that they were quite tender and juicy, with a slight greenish tint.

It will be a while till I can face another turkey thigh.
a could weeks should do it!

Tat
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Except that it's lonesome work
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#300204 - 03/30/17 10:34 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Oy vey! I'd never cook poultry of any sort without unwrapping it and washing it it before cooking. Whatever pathogens are there to begin with are most likely in the slimy mess surrounding the meat in the packaging. Even if you kill the pathogens there's a pretty good chance of transferring off flavors into the meat. Unless you buy minimally processed, air chilled poultry, your are not getting clean meat in that package.
_________________________
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#300220 - 03/31/17 05:45 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
USDA says never wash poultry before cooking it, because you are exposing yourself to pathogens in most cases. I still do anyway because I don't like eating chicken poop soup. I just keep the water flow very low, keep the parts low in the sink, and try not to breath too much. I guess it would be safer to make some strong brine and drop the unwashed parts in it for a while, as "washing".

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#300232 - 03/31/17 06:42 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
Oy vey! I'd never cook poultry of any sort without unwrapping it and washing it it before cooking. Whatever pathogens are there to begin with are most likely in the slimy mess surrounding the meat in the packaging. Even if you kill the pathogens there's a pretty good chance of transferring off flavors into the meat. Unless you buy minimally processed, air chilled poultry, your are not getting clean meat in that package.


Originally Posted By: TatumAH
Originally Posted By: Greger
Getting briefly back to topic...

POSTED 03/05/2017
NO NOT THAT!!!
Turkey sous vide
crispy-tender-confit turkey legs
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/crispy-tender-confit-turkey-legs

Well, I didn’t find any appropriate chicken in the freezer so it was off to the grocery. I selected a pork shoulder, a pack of chicken thighs, and a couple of turkey thigh packs containing a total of 4 thighs.
Back to the waterworks!
Tat


Ironically, in my defense, this is all Greger's fault. After review of secret documentation, as there was no "best used by date" label on the killer-thighs, I found the above posting dated 3/5/17 revealing the fester time line to be only 20 days, clearly borderline.

Greger instigated a state of temporary insanity such that I bought more meat than I could handle, though I can usually hold my own in this catagory. If he finds this accusation slanderous, he can sous me. He can pick the time, I'll pick the temp!

This will not hold up in court as I documented the state of mind at the time of full boared sous vide madness. (note to self, find whole boar image)

Anyway, by the time the acute disorientation passed, after several pork butt incursions, and countless chicken thighs confit, and a steak memorable episode, I belatedly found the turkey thighs about a week old in the garage, after outside temps rapidly changing from freezing to sudden spring 65F.

At that time I had already vetoed any consideration of actually eating them, but having a scientific interest in "worst case scenarios" I allowed the experiment to proceed until the outcome was definitive. (Spoiler alurp)Three weeks is adequate!

Quote:
Whatever pathogens are there to begin with are most likely in the slimy mess surrounding the meat in the packaging. Even if you kill the pathogens there's a pretty good chance of transferring off flavors into the meat.


As attractive as that sounds, I would say "off flavors" was a bit ewephemistic for the reality, and though many scientific finding should be repeated for validity, this cannot be recommended at home for those without necropsy experience.

Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
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#300233 - 03/31/17 07:09 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
USDA says never wash poultry before cooking it, because you are exposing yourself to pathogens in most cases. I still do anyway because I don't like eating chicken poop soup. I just keep the water flow very low, keep the parts low in the sink, and try not to breath too much. I guess it would be safer to make some strong brine and drop the unwashed parts in it for a while, as "washing".


I agrrree, and I had planned an Auntie Fee sink washing, stomach turning, variation using the thighs with the addition of commit and 10% bleach, that I think might have been corrosive to my sink. After a good Auntie Fee Scrubbing, she put them back in their original bag a froze them till needed for a mass suicide dinner. I thought freezing the turkey thighs at this point, to be inadvisable. Could have named the dish "Tat Assed Turkey Thighs" TATT for short.

Variously aged Carrion is well established as a staple in the animal kingdom, and studies have shown the evolution of very effective bacterial killing conditions in the stomachs of turkey vultures.

Wild and domestic dogs have developed an alternative method of eliminating overripe carrion. Dogs as pack animals aggressively eat in competition with the pack, regardless of quality. If you dont get yours up front, you may starve. If it turns out the meal was, uh, too unsavory, they just puke it up and go looks for something else.

Tat

Originally Posted By: TatumAH
Way too young! She used much the same technical vocabulary that I use in the kitchen! She would have appeared more attractive to teens on PBS than Julia Childs.

Here is her Good Ass Chicken recipe! Lest we furrget!
Tat



Edited by TatumAH (03/31/17 09:07 PM)
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#300234 - 03/31/17 07:31 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
Oy vey! I'd never cook poultry of any sort without unwrapping it and washing it it before cooking. Whatever pathogens are there to begin with are most likely in the slimy mess surrounding the meat in the packaging. Even if you kill the pathogens there's a pretty good chance of transferring off flavors into the meat. Unless you buy minimally processed, air chilled poultry, your are not getting clean meat in that package.


Originally Posted By: TatumAH
[quote=Spag-hetti]Thanks, guys. This is really interesting and I could be the first on my block ...


Hi Spag,

I feel it is my solemn responsibility to warn you about the obsessive disorder that can arise from the experience related to the total immersion baptism of sous vide! It is similar to other well recognized repetitive disorders that you may recognize, for example weedeater and powerwasher madness. Suddenly everything needs either the attention of the weedeater, or a good powerwashing. Takes the fleas right off the cats, though they tend to vanish for a while.

Any way, I blame all this on Greger, who fanned the flames of my smouldering interest into a full blown sous vide madness...

Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
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#300235 - 03/31/17 07:33 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
I know that "up north" a lot of yall don't have air conditioning. Just as here in Florida we don't really have much in the way of furnaces(I've heard of them but I'm not sure I've ever seen one) But I know you have a freezer. Whether you keep meat in your refrigerator or in a somewhat chilly garage, three days is about the maximum you want to keep it without freezing it.
I could probably pull up a chart from somewhere with the rate of food pathogen growth over various times and temperatures. But you're a pathologist, Tat, you know this stuff far better than I do.
Once food "turns" there's no salvaging it.
_________________________
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#300236 - 03/31/17 07:38 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
Maybe a decent burial in the backyard? If you could dig a hole deep enough.

Did I ever tell you about my wife's nadir as a County Veterinary Pathologist? She forgot to run a rabies titre on a dog they brought in, and I guess it bit somebody. She had to go out to the dead animal disposal company to look for the carcass. It was somewhere in a semi trailer filled with barrels of dead animals. It was about 95 degrees out, and even hotter in the trailer. She finally found it in a barrel topped with dead skunks!

The dog was negative for rabies.

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#300238 - 03/31/17 07:52 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Quote:
USDA says never wash poultry before cooking it

If I've got to handle it before cooking it I'm exposing myself and my kitchen to those pathogens anyway. Better to wash it, put it in a mixing bowl, wash my hands and start clean. In the processing plants chickens are de-headed and bled, de-feathered in a machine with rubber paddles that slap the feathers off them, then gutted and thrown in a huge vat of filthy, ice cold brine to chill them before they get cut up and packaged. I expect they are washed more along the way somewhere but that sh!t's nasty.
"Minimally processed" poultry products gets to skip that time in the chicken poop soup, it's gutted and cleaned, then washed thoroughly and hung to dry and chill with cold air blowing on it. Then it's cut up and packaged. It's much cleaner, safer, and a lot more expensive.
_________________________
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#300239 - 03/31/17 08:01 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida

Quote:
The dog was negative for rabies.


Always a silver lining somewhere in even the most sordid of tales...
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#300241 - 03/31/17 11:03 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8494
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Greger
Once food "turns" there's no salvaging it.

I recently learned that when people "turn" your only option is to shoot or stab them in the head. And don't let them bite you...
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"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

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#300242 - 03/31/17 11:42 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Always a silver lining


She took her job very seriously. If you skip a rabies test and somebody develops any symptoms they almost always die.

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#300265 - 04/01/17 02:03 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Maybe a decent burial in the backyard? If you could dig a hole deep enough.

Did I ever tell you about my wife's nadir as a County Veterinary Pathologist? She forgot to run a rabies titre on a dog they brought in, and I guess it bit somebody. She had to go out to the dead animal disposal company to look for the carcass. It was somewhere in a semi trailer filled with barrels of dead animals. It was about 95 degrees out, and even hotter in the trailer. She finally found it in a barrel topped with dead skunks!

The dog was negative for rabies.


It is regarded as a poor idea, by some, to start a gross out discussion among a mixed gathering with non-pathologists at dinner. Some Pathology residents become vegetarians for a while, after the Krogers meat counter remides you of work. Soon one starts viewing irregularities in their steak as lesions for diagnosis, trauma, tumor, infection etc. Weight loss is common, and blackened pork becomes de ri·gueur.

There used to be a vet clinic adjacent to the "authentic Thai restaurant". That brought humorous discussions. None of that butchered meat, all meat here died a natural death, tumor, infection, renal failure. Its only natural your cat dies, when it lives near a Thai restaurant, etc. Restaurant found new location.

Other sources of exotic foods, have not been ignored by sius vide chefs!

Tat


Scrumulous!
Matt's Food Blog
Badger Bourguignon





legs and arms of one badger: boned and cut into bite sized chunks, see above

one badger loin
200g streaky bacon, cut into lardons
some neutral oil (e.g.: rapeseed)
2 carrots, chopped into rounds
1 large onion, sliced
bottle robust red wine
500ml beef stock
1 tbsp tomato paste
3 cloves garlic, crushed
50g unsalted butter
teaspoon fresh thyme
1 bay leaf, sliced
250g fresh mushrooms
2 carrots cut into batons
50 grams butter, cubed

Directions

1) Preheat oven to 160°C

2) Saute bacon to render fat in pan, set bacon aside.

3) Add some oil and heat to nearly smoking and, in batches, fry the meat from the badger arms and legs until browned, set aside.

4) Fry the carrot rounds and onions in the oil until browned, add the garlic for the last few minutes.

5) Add the vegetables and reserved bacon to a casserole dish and add the tomato paste and herbs.

6) Cover this layer with a double layer of muslin then place the reserved badger meat in an even layer on top of the muslin.

7) Pour in the red wine and stock in equal amounts to cover the meat, season with salt.

8) Add the casserole, covered in foil to the oven and cook for 4-5 hours.

9) Whilst the braise is cooking, add the loins with the butter to a sous vide bag. Seal, and cook at 65°C for around 75 minutes depending on thickness of the loins – to achieve pasteurisation. Reserve.

10) When the meat is ready, cook the mushrooms and carrots.

11) Reserve the meat in a warm dish using a slotted spoon to remove it from the casserole dish, avoiding disturbing the muslin layer (and so avoiding the layer of aromatics from touching the meat).

12) Pour the braising liquid into a pan through a chinois lined with a double layer of muslin, discarding all the vegetables and herbs.

13) Reduce sauce by 25-50%, skimming off any scum that appears on the surface.

14) Thicken the liquid if necessary using method of choice, and season with salt, pepper and red wine vinegar if necessary, whisk in cubed butter.

15) Toss with the meat and warm through, adding the just cooked vegetables and the end, top with the (warmed if necessary) loins.

16) Serve to courageous, badger loving comrades, with a gorgeous rioja and some derring do.
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#300277 - 04/01/17 05:57 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
Speaking of badgers, did you see that youtube video of the badger burying an entire dead calf? Researchers laid it out to study vultures but Mister Badger came along and took the whole thing for himself!

Worth viewing.

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#300283 - 04/01/17 08:09 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Speaking of badgers, did you see that youtube video of the badger burying an entire dead calf? Researchers laid it out to study vultures but Mister Badger came along and took the whole thing for himself!

Worth viewing.


I did, indeed, and was impressed by his work ethic.



We have many good badger associations as they are the UW Mascot, and can still sing Badger songs, and know the fingering for On Wisconsin.

I am unsure about the sous vide times and temps for a carnivore. There was an epidemic of Trichinosis out west where, if I recall, 11 people were infected. The culprit was traced to the low temperature of the smoker used to make the cougar jerky. In my unbiased opinion, the barbarians got exactly what they deserved, a memorable dining experience!

Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#300305 - 04/02/17 06:50 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
Pork tape worm can be a lot worse. The larvae can grow in your brain. Maybe low temperature cooking of pork is not such a good idea.

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#300349 - 04/03/17 04:22 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
So what kind of temperatures can they survive? And for how long?
A medium rare pork chop goes for an hour at 140 in the sous vide. The pork chop probably reaches ambient temperature within 20 minutes or less. Which gives us another 40 minutes at 140F.
I haven't been able to find any mention of these worms as a danger in sous vide cooking but this is an intersting article for you guys who are somewhat more scientifically savvy than an old carpenter and occasional line cook.
_________________________
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#300350 - 04/03/17 04:41 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
So you've sent me galavanting all over the internets trying to figure out if tapeworms are an issue when cooking pork.

1)Most commercial pork is frozen before marketing to kill any worm parasites.

2)Tapeworm eggs and larvae are killed at 125 degrees.

3)The FDA 2009 Food Code makes no special recommendations at all for cooking pork. Instead it suggests using the FDA's time-and-temperature table for whole-meat roasts for all meats.

4)Don't sweat the low cook temps, sous vide is safe.
_________________________
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#300352 - 04/03/17 05:51 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Most commercial pork is frozen before marketing to kill any worm parasites.


Nice to know and it's something you can do yourself if you suspect some pork is questionable.

But still, apparently not all pork is frozen and people handle raw pork before they cook it. I will be as careful with it as I am with raw poultry from now on.

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#300594 - 04/11/17 03:03 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Since next week is a traditional Christian holiday, the grocery stores have "Easter specials". Among them at my grocer was boneless leg of lamb and beef rib roasts. I picked up one of each at a very good price and popped them in the freezer for future use. Beside them in the cooler were beef hearts for $1.99 a pound.
Yes...I bought a pound of beef heart and yes it's burbling away in the sous vide. I have no idea what it will be like, much like when I cooked the tongue, but with only two bucks invested in it if I don't like it the dog surely will.
_________________________
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#300598 - 04/11/17 03:54 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
I always buy lots of corned beef before St. Patrick's Day myself. $2 a pound with coupon. Not much for corned beef, potatoes, and cabbage, but I love hot corned beef and Reuben sandwiches. Homemade hash with eggs is great too, for breakfast.

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#300608 - 04/11/17 05:50 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Sous vide makes perfect corned beef. I bought three when they were on sale and experimented with two. Turns out 154F for 24 hours is absolutely magical. The third one is languishing in the freezer waiting for its time to shine.
I just found another corned beef recipe I'd like to try, Chef John's Easy Pastrami which certainly looks worth giving a try.

The beef heart is excellent. 24 hours at 79C. I'm going to make gravy with the juices, cube the heart and serve it over rice.
_________________________
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#300621 - 04/12/17 04:21 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
We are traveling through a gorgeous NC spring, and I am hunting for sliced pork bbq with clear vinegar sauce, (no tomatoes) with sides of hushpuppies, cornbread, and mixed greens. Looking for a seedy looking authentic place with linoleum floors, and a pink pig sign. This may be difficult to find in Durham, as gentrification is getting very advanced.
Delis wtih corned beef are everywhere!
Tat
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Except that it's lonesome work
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#300625 - 04/12/17 08:32 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
sliced pork bbq with clear vinegar sauce


Boy, that may be hard to find. Eastern North Carolina IS known for the tomato-free sauce but it's whole-hawg barbeque. I think you're going to have to settle for chopped-style.

You'll know the place is authentic if they have 1 foot by 1 foot linoleum tiles. You know, the old kind with asbestos.

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#300636 - 04/12/17 03:34 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
Hush puppies at a barbecue place? Is that a Nawth C'lina thing?
A proper hush puppy is fried in the oil after the fish is fried and are nearly impossible to get at a restaurant. Those lifeless balls of fried cornmeal, which probably come frozen in large bags, are simply not hush puppies.

While you're in the South, Tat, pop into a grocery store and pick up a bag of Dixie Lilly brand hush puppy mix. It won't be quite as good as my mama's home made hush puppies, fried in the oil she fried fish in, but it will be closer than anything you can get at any restaurant. Mix it a little bit wetter than the instructions say and fry it up in a cast iron skillet. Hush puppies don't work right if you deep fry them and they don't like being fried in new oil. They need to flatten out in the skillet for maximum crispiness and they need to go a little beyond "golden brown" to a deeper, rich brown. They should be noticeably browner than the fried fish and crunchy when you bite into them.

_________________________
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#300649 - 04/12/17 07:57 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
sliced pork bbq with clear vinegar sauce


Boy, that may be hard to find. Eastern North Carolina IS known for the tomato-free sauce but it's whole-hawg barbeque. I think you're going to have to settle for chopped-style.

You'll know the place is authentic if they have 1 foot by 1 foot linoleum tiles. You know, the old kind with asbestos.


Found the right place (complete with pink pig), and sauce, but nothing sliced except turkey(yes turkey WTF) and brisket. Had to settle for having my pork pulled, but having Pabst with it added to the authenticity. The collards with authentic fatback also contributed to the ambience. See below for hushpuppy review.

Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
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#300651 - 04/12/17 08:08 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
Sounds great. But pulled pork and not chopped? Never been but on the web it looks like it is chopped with a big knife instead of pulled with forks.

You know, I've actually got one of those fiberglass pigs, It's left over from a USDA SBIR grant a partner and I did to study pig fat content while the pig was still alive. Body volume determination by video cameras. We actually built a working prototype but they just expected a paper study.

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#300652 - 04/12/17 08:21 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
Hush puppies at a barbecue place? Is that a Nawth C'lina thing?]

I guess so, as my southern bbq experience started in 1971 when Durham was a sad, tired, tobacco town. Wouldnt have recognized it now. Vogue rated Durham as hippest city in Nawth Carolina

The "hushpuppies" were worse than Greger predicted, corn poon, sans the tang. Looked like elongated shapes squeezed out of a small dog into hot oil. With little tapered ends. Yecch! Not browned enuff and definitively not crunchy at all. Hard to tell them from the fries! But they did soak up some of the sauce to make tasty mush!
Quote:

A proper hush puppy is fried in the oil after the fish is fried and are nearly impossible to get at a restaurant. Those lifeless balls of fried cornmeal, which probably come frozen in large bags, are simply not hush puppies.

While you're in the South, Tat, pop into a grocery store and pick up a bag of Dixie Lilly brand hush puppy mix.


Will do on the Dixie Lilly, if I can find a non-health food, a screw your health, or at least a health-optional store. I will clearly have to go to the dwindling poor areas where hip has not yet struck, but there I have difficulty with the foreign language.

Tat in Durm
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#300695 - 04/14/17 11:52 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
It's okay to chop pulled pork. In a restaurant environment it's just a lot more efficient. It makes sandwich making and portion control easier. It makes it so the crunchy outer bits, lumps of fat, and soft internal meat can be well mixed into a more or less homogeneous blend and a better overall effect. A sandwich made this week, next week, or next year will always be pretty much the same. That's more important for a restaurant than for home cooks.
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#300925 - 04/26/17 04:40 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Upstate NY
This is a long and detailed (as is characteristic of Atlantic articles) discussion and review of books that attempt to teach principles/concepts of cooking. There are also critiques of several interesting tomes that try various approaches. It is not strictly in the topic of "sous vide", but it is dismissively mentioned.
Food for thought, or thought for food?

Tat
Quote:
food history, seemed too elementary.
Nosrat’s wisdom is apparent in the way she instructs, which lets her cover food science without ever getting lost in the finer points of chemistry.

To be sure, the scientific route is likely one that will resonate with ambitious home cooks who gravitate toward precision. But I left each of these guides with a nagging sense that there is a simpler way—one more grounded in common sense and intuition—that might inspire people who do not already fancy themselves dedicated cooks and/or scientists. A more welcoming, more widely appealing, and thus more effective method might be one that teaches cooks to start with their thoughts and senses rather than a temperature setting on a sous-vide device. If a lesson or two about science is gained incidentally in the process, fine, but let’s leave the history of water-buffalo domestication out of it for now.



the-why-of-cooking
Quote:

The Why of Cooking

What’s the most efficient path to kitchen wisdom?
An illustration from Samin Nosrat's Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat Wendy MacNaughton


It’s a shame that the standard way of learning how to cook is by following recipes. To be sure, they are a wonderfully effective way to approximate a dish as it appeared in a test kitchen, at a star chef’s restaurant, or on TV. And they can be an excellent inspiration for even the least ambitious home cooks to liven up a weeknight dinner. But recipes, for all their precision and completeness, are poor teachers. They tell you what to do, but they rarely tell you why to do it.

This means that for most novice cooks, kitchen wisdom—a unified understanding of how cooking works, as distinct from the notes grandma lovingly scrawled on index-card recipes passed down through the generations—comes piecemeal. Take, for instance, the basic skill of thickening a sauce. Maybe one recipe for marinara advises reserving some of the starchy pasta water, for adding later in case the sauce is looking a little thin. Another might recommend rescuing a too-watery sauce with some flour, and still another might suggest a handful of parmesan. Any one of these recipes offers a fix under specific conditions, but after cooking through enough of them, those isolated recommendations can congeal into a realization: There are many clever ways to thicken a sauce, and picking an appropriate one depends on whether there’s some leeway for the flavor to change and how much time there is until dinner needs to be on the table.

The downside of learning to cook primarily through recipes, then, is that these small eurekas—which, once hit upon, are instantly applicable to nearly any other dish one prepares—are most often arrived at via triangulation. It’s like trying to learn a language only by copying down others’ sentences, instead of learning the grammar and vocabulary needed to put to paper lines of one’s own.
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Short of enrolling in a cooking school, is there not a more direct, less haphazard way to arrive at a fuller idea of the theory behind good cooking? One gets the sense that chefs and cookbook authors are in possession of some magnificent guidebook full of culinary insights, consulting it to construct their dishes and revealing its secrets to everyday cooks only in fragments. No book could live up to that hyperbolic image, but I was still surprised, after roughly a year of searching, to find that there are very few books that concisely articulate the concepts that underlie good cooking, in a way that neither patronizes nor overwhelms. One might call what I was looking for “a metacookbook”—a book not about a certain cuisine or style of cooking, but about cooking itself—and I found good ones to be surprisingly rare.
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#300965 - 04/27/17 06:22 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13718
Loc: Florida
The art of cooking, like any vocation or avocation, simply cannot be encompassed in a single book. It takes years of practice and a certain amount of dedication. The internet is an excellent teacher though. Recipes and video tutorials abound.
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