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#299826 - 03/20/17 10:18 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: Ken Condon]
rporter314 Online   content
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6145
Loc: Highlands, Tx
The most sensible, reasonable fix is some variation of single-payer. I can see this as either government or privately run.
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without equality there is no liberty

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#299827 - 03/20/17 11:24 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: Jim D (FreeThinker)]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6762
Loc: North San Diego County
Sure, most of the elderly will tell you they are conservative (mostly because they are just old and liked the way things were when they were young). BUT don't touch their Medicare or Social Security! It's a logical disconnect, but hey they are old and not so hot on logic anymore.

If we look at it from the 50,000 foot view, healthcare is simple. We have some doctors, some drug companies and medical device manufacturers, a big pool of citizens and legal residents, and some money. We should just be able to rise above it all and figure out the plan that covers just about everything for everybody. Other countries manage to do that with a lot less money per capita than we have.

As it was in 2008 and is now, we're just pushing the deck chairs around on the Titanic: Pushing costs this way and that to try to come up with something "fair". Truth is that we the insured pay for just about everything for everybody, one way or another. It may be in the form of taxes, may be in the form of higher premiums, or it may be in the forms of deductible copays.

There are people who can't pay, because they are poor. We collectively choose to pay for them because that's just who we are as a people. Then there are moochers who could pay but don't. We even pay for them through higher premiums and government grants to hospitals.

So why not just make Medicare for all mandatory, help the truly poor with their payments, and get rid of the moocher class. It's got to be a lot cheaper and the only losers I can see are the moochers who would be moochers no more.

The very same insurance companies who handle regular claims, also handle Medicare claims for the government now. The difference is they do it for 5% instead of 20%. They could easily convert their regular policy claims processing to Medicare. The infrastructure already exists!

You don't have to charge everybody $120 per month like current Medicare recipients. They are charged that because they have spent a lifetime paying in. Charge everybody on a sliding scale, depending on their income and age. As long as we collect enough to keep it solvent.

And get rid of that law that says the government can't negotiate drug prices for Medicare! Talk about corporate welfare. In fact, change the patent law so a patent is invalid if a company charges more that 1000% of their manufacturing cost. (Because that kind of extortion violates the whole purpose of patents, that we all can benefit from new inventions.)

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#299829 - 03/21/17 12:00 AM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: rporter314]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3703
Loc: Eugene, OR
Quote:
The most sensible, reasonable fix is some variation of single-payer

Remember--this is Humurrica. That method of supplying access to health care is simply un-Humurrican, makes too much sense, and---it’s--- simply un-Humurrican to boot!
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#299849 - 03/21/17 07:36 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: Jim D (FreeThinker)]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6762
Loc: North San Diego County
Trump went to Congress to try to get all the Republicans behind the AHCA bill. The Freedom Caucus said no. Trump told them they could get "primaried" in 2018.

That would be interesting. A contest between a conservative Freedom Caucus member and what? Somebody more liberal? In that case, wouldn't the Democrat win the general election?

This an interesting three-position contest:

1. Keep ACA
2. Replace ACA with crappy AHCA
3. Repeal ACA and have nothing

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#299852 - 03/21/17 07:59 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: pondering_it_all]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 378
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Trump went to Congress to try to get all the Republicans behind the AHCA bill. The Freedom Caucus said no. Trump told them they could get "primaried" in 2018.

That would be interesting. A contest between a conservative Freedom Caucus member and what? Somebody more liberal? In that case, wouldn't the Democrat win the general election?

This an interesting three-position contest:

1. Keep ACA
2. Replace ACA with crappy AHCA
3. Repeal ACA and have nothing



I just read the same thing. The GOP House are unhappy campers. Damned if they do( by voters in 2018) or damned if they don't ( by threatened attacks by T-rump)! Luckily for them, he doesn't hold grudges for Reps that further emasculate an already eunuchoid Presidensey. Dont you just feel sorry for them? Can't you feel their pain?
Tat ROTFMOL
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Except that it's lonesome work
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#299865 - 03/22/17 06:17 AM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: Jim D (FreeThinker)]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15331
I am so hopeful that the GOP fails to pass AHCA in House. That would give me hope that maybe we can stave off disaster. If it fails, maybe a coalition of moderates can do the right thing and work on real reform.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#299867 - 03/22/17 06:41 AM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: Jim D (FreeThinker)]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6762
Loc: North San Diego County
The Republican Party falls apart here: There are three coalitions in Congress right now, the straight repealers, the replacers, and the Democrats. Even if "Republicans" are in control, neither of their factions have enough votes to prevail.

Repealers are afraid if they don't deliver on their many years of promises, they will lose office in 2018. Replacers know that if they throw 20 million people off health insurance they will lose office in 2018. And you know what? They are both probably right!

Republicans have painted themselves into a corner. I think the only way out for them is to adopt RomneyCare exactly as written for all 50 states and our territories. Then everybody gets coverage and it was invented by a Republican.

But they are probably too stupid to go for it, so they will lose Congress in 2018 for failing to deliver,

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#299870 - 03/22/17 01:25 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: Jim D (FreeThinker)]
rporter314 Online   content
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6145
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I think conservatives and probably a lot of Republicans would rather auto-asphyxiate than pass anything which appears similar to ACA.

For those who are strictly repeal there is no problem .... let the people eat cake (or more simply frak those people).

The Republican/conservatives are actually forced to address the replacement issue only because of the popularity and understanding of what ACA is. Had ACA actually been the catastrophic failure conservatives claim it is, no one would care about pre-existing, lifetime caps, etc. and they would simply repeal.

Now, faced with constraints which do not lend easily to low cost, no government intervention, etc, Republicans have no realistic plan.

Would they rather pass a terrible bill than not pass anything at all? I think so. Remember the House has cover in the Senate. If Democrats hold fast in the face of a terrible bill, it will not pass.

Republicans have, unintentionally for the benefit of Democrats, performed well for the Le Théâtre du Grand-Guignol. I think it will pass the House but will never reach the Resolute.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#299871 - 03/22/17 03:02 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: Jim D (FreeThinker)]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15331
It used to be the "un-American activities committee" was anti-communist witch hunting. Now it is just conducting Congressional business...
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#299873 - 03/22/17 04:45 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: Jim D (FreeThinker)]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15331
I think the "simplest" solution is a medicare-for-all opt-in. You can go employer, exchange, OR government-payer. In 5 years, everyone will be in.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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