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#299781 - 03/19/17 10:50 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13793
Loc: Florida
Quote:
After 4 hrs at 60C, I seared one, but was not happy with the result

I imagine not. That would be the maximum cook time for a pork chop. It would be only slightly different from a pork chop cooked at 140F(60C) for one hour.
I did pork chops today. 1 hour at 140. I wasn't happy with the result either and next time will reduce the temp to 135.

To get anything like pulled pork you're going to have to do a 24 hour cook at somewhere between 145 and 165. Ideally with a whole boneless Boston Butt.
Recipe

I just did two corned beef briskets for that Irish Holiday, you know, a celebration of the gent who drove the snakes(Druids) out of Ireland.
I did one at 180 for 10 hours. It was as good as the best slow cooker corned beef, but nothing special.
I did another at 154 for 24 hours. It was corned beef perfection. Similar to deli corned beef which was my goal.
If you want a really falling apart corned beef they recommend 48 hours at 135.

At sous vide temps it takes a long long time to break down the collagen.
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#299788 - 03/20/17 02:36 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 379
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
After 4 hrs at 60C, I seared one, but was not happy with the result

[quote]I imagine not. That would be the maximum cook time for a pork chop. It would be only slightly different from a pork chop cooked at 140F(60C) for one hour.
I did pork chops today. 1 hour at 140. I wasn't happy with the result either and next time will reduce the temp to 135./quote]

I knew you were going to say that, but I was doing an experiment. I see the pork chop/steak pages with the various temps with the shrinkage factors, and I chose the 60C temp but watched the bags closely for shrinkage, hard to judge, but more watching fluid accumulation in the bags. It was really minimal, particularly compared to chicken thighs. Not much after one hour, and not much more at each hour up till 4. I think it might have been somewhat dehydrated by sitting in the fridge temp garage loosely covered and low humidity. I pulled the plug on the pork sous vide and oven braised it 4 hr at too low a temp of 125F, that failed to render the fat.

Took the steaks up to 325 for an hour and they pulled nicely. I removed most of the fat and then added the rest of the sauce and gave it an hour warming in the oven covered at 125F. The pulled very tender white meat took up the sauce very nicely. Made tacos with the meat, and I like to include the soft lemon and lime slices with the meat, topped by the pickled onions, and habenero salsa. Nice layering of flavors and burn. The meat was superbly tender without any dryness, as I usually notice in restaurant carnitas. Not sure what to call it.

If I repeat something like this, I will probably sous vide the steaks for an 1-1/2 hours at 60C. And then just pop them into the oven with the sauce at 325F and keep an eye on them to prevent overcooking to dryness. The sous vide did provide an advantage, in that I could mix the SV pork, which was now sterile, and was able to adjust the taste of the sauce at the beginning of the oven phase, something I would not do with raw pork, chicken or beef (I dont do seafood).

I will be shopping for some corned beef, as they will likely be sale priced after St. Pattys, and will trying some of your suggestions, and tell you about my new "discoveries".

My bride is back in town, and I have been getting some feedback about her incredible enthusiasm for all the equipment in the lab, uhh, kitchen. I euphemistically call such feedback, background music!

Tat

To get anything like pulled pork you're going to have to do a 24 hour cook at somewhere between 145 and 165. Ideally with a whole boneless Boston Butt.
Recipe

I just did two corned beef briskets for that Irish Holiday, you know, a celebration of the gent who drove the snakes(Druids) out of Ireland.
I did one at 180 for 10 hours. It was as good as the best slow cooker corned beef, but nothing special.
I did another at 154 for 24 hours. It was corned beef perfection. Similar to deli corned beef which was my goal.
If you want a really falling apart corned beef they recommend 48 hours at 135.

At sous vide temps it takes a long long time to break down the collagen.
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
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#299806 - 03/20/17 03:02 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13793
Loc: Florida
I'm having a hard time getting myself to try pulled pork in the sous vide. Sous vide is an excellent new tool in the toolbox, but it isn't the end all and be all of cooking. Some things are best accomplished with dry heat.
Pulled pork is one of these.

For perfect pulled pork a 200 degree oven is the best way to go. A 6-8 pound bone in Boston Butt will take 12 to 14 hours at this temperature, depending on your oven. It wants to stay in there until the internal temp reaches at least 185. I generally put them in at midnight for dinner service the next day, allowing a full 18 hours assuming dinner starts at sixish. Then I check the internal temp at noon the next day. If it hasn't reached 185 by 4 o'clock then bump the temp to 225. When it reaches 185 shut the oven off and just let it sit. Or, if you need the oven, wrap it in foil and hold it in a cooler until service. After appetizers and cocktails, and when the sides are ready, present the meat, put it on a large platter, put on some rubber gloves and amaze your guests with the ease it pulls apart. Serve it with slider buns and a variety of barbecue sauces.

I've never weighed one after I took it out but it will be noticeably lighter, perhaps 2 pounds or more will be lost, but there will be nothing dry about the meat. The ample fat in a Boston Butt is almost completely rendered and most of it stays inside the meat, replacing the water that was lost during the cook time.
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#299831 - 03/21/17 01:50 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 379
Loc: Upstate NY
Yep. I agree completely, but as we discussed, when you find your lost hammer, everything takes a beating for a while. Not the sharpest tool, ya know!

I also use the oven, as neither the gas powered grill or gas smoker are thermostated, and it is a chore watching butts all day. I no longer, never again, cook butts in real time for guests. Lazy butt, butt stall, and butt lag make precision timing maddeningly unpredictable. For those new to pork butts, there is a slow increase in temp vs cooking time, and then around 160 or so, everything appears to come to a halt and the temp hangs there for an unpredictable time. First time it happens, you check your flame, thermometer, gas tanks, wind speed and sun/shade variations. Its apparently due to an energy requiring intra-butt process, breaking down connective tissue to gelatin (melting/denaturation), and probably also conversion of solid fat to liquid fat/oil much of which stays in the meat. Regardless of the process each butt is unique and I know no way to predict lag times. I may experiment to test various theories in the summer.

I like to dry rub them and then start them on the BBQ with wood smoke added, or the smoker for a couple of hours then transfer to oven for howtheheck ever long it takes by temp.

Either smoke method can give the pink smoke ring/zone under the surface. For biochem fans, its due to carbon monoxide binding to myoglobin, a main muscle protein, in a manner very similar to the binding to hemoglobin, giving CO fatality corpses a cherry pink glow. Which reminds me about the corned beef Greger cooked. The pink color of those pickled meats is typically due to nitrite, or slower nitrates in the brine, once again binding to the same oxygen binding site in myoglobin. (PM me for details)grin
CO treatment is also used to keep steaks looking red in stores, even if they are spoiled, they still look purty!

May experiment with nitrites to get a fake smoke ring on a butt, but not CO as experimental CO generators can be problematic. CO monitors keep blaring till the batteries are removed, and the cats slow down.

So what do you think? 60C for 3-4 days?
Tat
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Except that it's lonesome work
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#299833 - 03/21/17 02:06 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13793
Loc: Florida
Food Lab says 165F(74C) for 18-24 hours. Then 1 1/2 hours in the oven at 300 to put the bark on it.
They mention using Prague powder for the smoke ring but to me that seems kind of frivolous.
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#299834 - 03/21/17 02:29 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 379
Loc: Upstate NY
Worse than frivolous! From the label The prague powder #1 is just Nitrite with no flavor. So why add a potential toxin, except to pretend to be the local pit boss? Might as well just use red dye #3, which is also an ingredient!
Tat

_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#299998 - 03/26/17 03:31 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 379
Loc: Upstate NY
Eight hours and 5 minutes at 64C, so far, for a batch of turkey thighs con fit. Breakfast at 8 AM would be 16 hrs, so maybe brunch would be better. Do warm turkey thighs go better with a bloody mary or a mimosa?

Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#300000 - 03/26/17 03:47 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13793
Loc: Florida
I'd pair that with the bloody marys. And maybe a cup of Italian roast coffee.
My next sous vide experiment will be with some sliced breakfast ham.
63C overnight should beak down the connective tissue and make the ham meltingly tender.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#300003 - 03/26/17 04:09 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 379
Loc: Upstate NY
My options for breakfast are somewhat limited by my visceral aversion to eggs, even slightly not very well done. This may be related to breaking open 30-60 embryonated eggs/ day in grad school, removing their cartilage pelvic rudiments for endocrinology research. Almost every session had at least one bad exposive egg, damn lazy roosters, that were kind of ripe after 10-12 days incubating at 37C. I considered at the time, looking at my waste bucket, that if whipped a bit would make a chicken/veal omlet, that likely reinforced my aversion. Their most prominent features, at that stage, are their eyes!


On the other hand, even as a child I could only eat eggs, over very severely,and most sincerely seared, till nicely browned on both sides. So with that purrspective, I suppose that I could have chosen that field of research to get even with eggs and their associates. The subconscious is an interesting place to explore.
Coddled eggs sick



Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#300006 - 03/26/17 04:36 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13793
Loc: Florida
Ham and biscuits for you then...hold the eggs. Would you like a side of grits with that?
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