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#299431 - 03/10/17 10:06 AM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40224
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Just watched a CNN (360) segment interviewing Trump supporters about the new healthcare plan. God, these people are delusional. They actually believed Trump would fulfill his promises, and are shocked that he's not representing their interests. Can you imagine?

NOBODY has ever claimed that a Trump supporter was very bright. In fact, PBS found this to be true a year ago:

Trump overwhelmingly leads rivals in support from less educated Americans Hmm
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#299432 - 03/10/17 11:45 AM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: Jim D (FreeThinker)]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15253
What the GOP fight with itself over healthcare demonstrates is the Party's incredible vacuity when it comes to policy. Neither side in this argument makes any sense. Sean Spicer had the temerity/gall to claim that the GOP plan was smaller "because it wasn't accommodating special interests." HA!

As Hillary Clinton pointed out, what the country needs for stability is a rejiggering of the tax system to increase taxes on the wealthy for the benefit of us all - to pay for infrastructure, fix Obamacare, and save SS and Medicare. The ACA was a start in the right direction, but it didn't go far enough. Virtually every aspect of the GOP plan will make the system worse - less coverage, more expensive, fewer subsidies, less oversight, and fiscally irresponsible to boot. Not only is the emperor not wearing any clothes, he's got profanity scrawled all over his body aimed at the voters.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#299433 - 03/10/17 12:21 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: Jim D (FreeThinker)]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6078
Loc: Highlands, Tx
2 things

1. the stack of papers was only for part #1 in a 3-part plan of attack in the R & R agenda. It did not address the numerous replacement clauses in too many existing laws to count. Should these folks get to part #3, I suspect their stack of papers will be at least as high and maybe more so.

2. I think you may be wrong on Mr Trump. I suspect he really believes he is doing something for the people but he is in a fight against ideologues, which he is not. Thus what you see is the ideological positions imputed to him.

The reason I believe this is he does not understand the issues like so many of his supporters and thus has a superficial command of them. Hence his reliance on his ideological allies and his crazy advisors.

It struck me as strange how odd he looked trying to negotiate a compromise among ideologues. Ideas do not have price tags or numerical qualities, so how does he as a real estate consummate negotiator think about this? We will have lots of losers (those who are supposed to be helped), since I suspect this is out of his hands. He is only there for the optics.
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#299435 - 03/10/17 06:13 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13754
Loc: Florida
Quote:
the Party's incredible vacuity when it comes to policy.

And even strong words like these are an understatement. While I understand that fiscal responsibility has gone the way of the horse and buggy it is still a point which conservatives like to base their policies on. A big part of fiscal responsibility is to spend money in a timely fashion before problems multiply and expenses skyrocket. Health care is an example of this as is spending on infrastructure. Instead they've fallen into the Grover Norquist trap where tax cutting is the order of the day and for years have failed to allocate the necessary funds and increase taxes to pay for them.
This has led to a conundrum impossible for them to deal with.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#299437 - 03/10/17 06:42 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13754
Loc: Florida
Quote:
he does not understand the issues

No he doesn't. But he applied for the job and claimed that he did.
Not many congressmen fell for his line but enough voters did to put him in office. The assumption that any Republican is better than any Democrat and, in particular, even Donald Trump is better than Hillary Clinton won the election for them. But now they have to govern.

Maybe Trump is a big old softy who wants all the little people to love him, but he is a firm believer in Voodoo economics. His route to making the working class happy is by making their corporate employers more wealthy. This is the same ideology that Republicans follow. So in that light they are on the same page.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#299490 - 03/12/17 02:32 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8522
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
ATHCYCA - the acronym for the ACA replacement bill subtitle...

All The Health Care You Can Afford (and if you can't afford much, whose fault is that, you lazy bastid?)
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"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

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#299494 - 03/12/17 02:54 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: Jim D (FreeThinker)]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6078
Loc: Highlands, Tx
The problem for conservatives is how to write a bill which is based on conservatives principles of a free market and yet provide healthcare? The solution is simple. Write a bill which provides access in the guise of actually proving coverage.

They provided the access, now it is the responsibility of poor folks to provide the money to buy that access.

I suppose one could now write a variety if iterations covering other issues as well. Pollution, climate, guns, schools, etc, just pick as issue. It will be conservative Darwinism at its finest.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#299496 - 03/12/17 02:57 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8522
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
I'm really amazed at the casual way the rightie pols say, "Just go get a job with a company that will provide you with health insurance!"

The amazing part is that they can say this with their heads completely up their arses, without gagging or choking.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

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#299499 - 03/12/17 05:27 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: Jim D (FreeThinker)]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6078
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I am still waiting on the plan to put 93M people to work ...
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#299507 - 03/12/17 08:36 PM Re: GOP at war with itself on health care [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15253
The GOP leadership lost the race to get repeal through before reality caught up with their blatant lies: Expect the CBO to estimate large coverage losses from the GOP health care plan - Brookings.edu

I saw some of the Sunday talk shows and the shills we out in force. The level of dishonesty on display was amazing.

Given the detail of previous CBO estimates, I expect that up to 30 million people would lose coverage under the GOP plan (yes, more people than have gained coverage under Obamacare). The Brookings estimate is very conservative.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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