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#299258 - 03/05/17 06:33 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 379
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
But here's another mystery. While roosters might have edible and delicious testicles they do NOT have a penis.

Quote:
The male chicken (rooster) does not have a penis like other animals and therefore there is no penetration of the female reproductive tract when mating. Instead the female inverts her cloaca (the common junction of the reproductive and digestive systems) which comes in contact with the male's inverted cloaca and receives the sperm. The cloaca is then drawn back into the hen's body and the sperm are captured. They then begin the journey up the length of the reproductive system.

Ducks, on the other hand, most assuredly DO...
But whether the Chinese eat them to increase penis size I have no idea.


Well...
To no surprise of alert members, it was clear where this thread was headed. The ultimate paradox, the cock has no penis. I can confirm this by direct observation. So, when choosing a species to re-incarnate into, one has to compare the unknowable sensations of cloaca inversion vs penis inflation/insertion. Since roosters do it up to 20 times/day, it is unlikely that it is painful. Still, a Drake would be able to Lord it over roosters with witty ditty's or is it ditties, from the ultimite arbiters of taste and wit, Montey's Python, who are like watching Oscar Wilde and NoŽl Coward in the third grade."
Taty


Edited by TatumAH (03/05/17 06:43 PM)
Edit Reason: ADDing Wilde Cowardice comment
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#299260 - 03/05/17 09:55 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13772
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I can confirm this by direct observation.

I've watched chickens fu<k on more occasions than I can count and never would have guessed it if I hadn't read is somewhere. I've got a huge red rooster named Henri and he services nine hens. Archibald unfortunately succumbed to a coyote recently in an ill fated attempt to protect the girls. But that's why we keep roosters, they sacrifice themselves for the good of the flock.

And in your various observations, studies, and dissections have you ever noted the shape and versatility of the pig penis? It's not only corkscrew shaped but it spins on its way to the target and actually screws itself in.

And they say there's not a Goddess....what a wonderful and diverse world we live in.
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#299261 - 03/05/17 10:03 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13772
Loc: Florida
Getting briefly back to topic, I made the green chili chicken echiladas with chicken confit today, as well as a small batch of white chili. The chicken confit is much more tender and supple than even the best chicken breast and lends itself well to any recipe calling for cooked chicken meat.
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#299265 - 03/05/17 11:38 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 379
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
Getting briefly back to topic...


NO NOT THAT!!!
Turkey sous vide
crispy-tender-confit turkey legs
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/crispy-tender-confit-turkey-legs

Well, I didnít find any appropriate chicken in the freezer so it was off to the grocery. I selected a pork shoulder, a pack of chicken thighs, and a couple of turkey thigh packs containing a total of 4 thighs. Then I remembered those steaks Greger described, and headed over to the beef counter. I selected a nice ribeye from the showcase and had it wrapped and weighed. I briefly discussed sous vide techniques with the butcher, and his eyes lit up. I then wandered around the store a bit gathering odds and ends that were needed, briefly leaving my cart unattended. When I returned, there was a shopping cart there with a ribeye, a package of skinless chicken breasts, and a number of other items were definitely not mine, and no pork butt. I wandered around a bit looking for whoever had my cart by accident and was hoping that the other shopper would return with my cart. I wandered and wandered, and finally found my cart over by the dairy case, but my selected ribeye was missing. I returned to the butcher counter and selected another, not as nice ribeye, and discussed cattle theft with the butcher who was amused! I returned to the other cart, which remained where I had left it, and recognized the ribeye as the one I originally selected. So I guess the chain of events was that someone took my cart, recognized that, and abandoned the cart but took my ribeye! There was still no one around the other cart, so I just swapped the ribeyes, and left with my original selection.

This obviously considerably delayed my progress! Iím now gathering my sous vide equipment, and studying the recipes again. I found some recipes for whole turkey legs, the drumstick and thigh, and will be trying that, any suggestions?

They suggest searing before and after the sous vide process. So Iím wondering if anyone has tried this? I know searing is best done in a very hot cast-iron vessel, but it does make a big mess. I have a large selection of torches, including those for brazing, and Iíve previously used some braising steak, well not really braising, but finishing with flame. Iím wondering about any experiences with flame finishing, after sous vide, which has considerable appeal, as after the sous vide, the meat can be fragile. I note that you deep fat fry it, that is less likely to disintegrated the meat than searing, and I could do that, but I donít keep a deep fat fryer active, to help avoid temptation to fry and die!

Iíve long had a fascination with fire, and find it useful for many things conventional and unconventional. I have micro torches which run on propane/acetylene/oxygen, used for jewelry work, moderate size propane/natural gas/oxygen, for plumbing, glassblowing, and brazing, and one of those large propane torches used for burning weeds etc., that hooks to the standard propane tank with a hose. The largest torch is what Iíve used for steaks, that were a bit thin, and rare in the middle, but had not browned to my satisfaction. I see multiple demonstrations online for something called Searsall, etc. cooking steaks, or at least finishing them. The advantage of the large torch is a you have a much larger spread, and a more homogeneous distribution of heat. You canít do this up close, but the large flame allows a much longer working distance. Who of you out there have experimented with torch cookery? And, speaking of torches, I have my eye on one of those large wok cookers, multiple hundreds of thousands of BTUs, that can also be used for deep fat frying whole turkeys, and setting your house on fire. I cannot really use a wok adequately in my kitchen, but on the deck anything goes even in winter.

Back to the waterworks!
Tat
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Except that it's lonesome work
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#299275 - 03/06/17 04:14 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13772
Loc: Florida
Turkey legs and thighs should confit nicely. Just season them well, add a goodly dollop of olive oil so they are mostly submerged and set the sous vide to 165 for 8 hours(or use the numbers in your linked recipe)

Pre-searing sounds like a good idea. I mentioned the Maillard reaction earlier(which has nothing to do with ducks or penises) but is the reaction which occurs when food browns and yields a much improved flavor profile. A good searing should infuse it with a bit of roast turkey flavor.

There will be considerable evaporation so don't do it overnight without covering the water.
You may never cook turkey any other way again. It's just that good. I aint crazy about turkey but I might just try this myself. My kid loves turkey.

I mostly cook in one of these with the matching lid cut out for the immersion pod and highly recommend it for long cooks when evaporation is an issue.

I don't have a torch. But I've thought about getting one with the Searsall attachment. But then again I might not. It's expensive and I'm happy using cast iron. Cast iron clean up always seems worse than it really is. I just scrape out anything that might be stuck to it with a spatula and wipe it clean with a paper towel. Then scour it under running hot water without using soap, soap kills the seasoning. Dry it and then put a few drops of oil in it and spread the oil with a paper towel.

I keep a 3 liter deep fryer loaded and ready to use at all times. I'm gonna die anyway and occasionally frying food isn't liable to hasten it all that much.
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#299281 - 03/06/17 06:00 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 379
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
Turkey legs and thighs should confit nicely. Just season them well, add a goodly dollop of olive oil so they are mostly submerged and set the sous vide to 165 for 8 hours(or use the numbers in your linked recipe)


That will be happening tonight and should make an interesting breakfast.

Quote:
Pre-searing sounds like a good idea. I mentioned the Maillard reaction earlier(which has nothing to do with ducks or penises) but is the reaction which occurs when food browns and yields a much improved flavor profile. A good searing should infuse it with a bit of roast turkey flavor.


Maillard reaction? Oh yeah it's coming back to me now! Isn't that when an aldehyde, like a reducing sugar, reacts with a primary amine forming a Schiff base that then undergoes Amidori rearrangement under acidic conditions. This also happens in vivo with the non-enzymatic glycosylation that is increased in diabetics due to the increased glucose concentration, and produces the glycosylated hemoglobin used in following glucose control. I read about this somewhere, as I used to be a chemist before the rot set in, and now Only play one at home, but am still a wise ass!

Interaction of 21-dehydrocorticosteroids with peptides
Kiyoshi Sunaga., S.S. Koide. A.H. Tatum.


Department of Biochemistry, Chiba University, School of Medicine, Chiba Japan
The Population Council, The Rockefeller University, New York, N.Y. 10021 U.S.A.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/0005-2787(71)90587-9Get rights and content
Abstract
The reaction of 21-dehydrocorticosteroids with amino acids or peptides in phosphate buffer was studied by measuring the fluorescence spectra of the mixture and by identifying the products formed. Changes in the fluorescence spectra suggest that the steroid reacted with the &#945;-amino group with the formation of a labile Schiff base intermediate. The products of the reaction of 21-dehydrocortisol and glycylglycine were identified as cortisol-21-amine and N-glyoxylglycine.

Quote:
There will be considerable evaporation so don't do it overnight without covering the water.


I got that covered with my automatic Christmas tree watering device, that is no longer working due to job loss from artificial trees.

Quote:
You may never cook turkey any other way again. It's just that good. I aint crazy about turkey but I might just try this myself. My kid loves turkey.

I mostly cook in one of these with the matching lid cut out for the immersion pod and highly recommend it for long cooks when evaporation is an issue.

I don't have a torch. But I've thought about getting one with the Searsall attachment. But then again I might not. It's expensive and I'm happy using cast iron. Cast iron clean up always seems worse than it really is. I just scrape out anything that might be stuck to it with a spatula and wipe it clean with a paper towel. Then scour it under running hot water without using soap, soap kills the seasoning. Dry it and then put a few drops of oil in it and spread the oil with a paper towel.


I am rummaging around looking for plastic Containers that fit my ice chests, or may build a Styrofoam box around it. As for torches, the big weed burner is about 20 bucks at Harbor freight including a Piezoelectric lighter, and if you don't like it for cooking there is always Something in the yard that needs burning. I may modify mine considering the Searsall design. For some reason the neighbors seem to be watching me the torch comes out. It is particularly noticeable night. I also like cast-iron implements, sometimes pre-heated in the oven to high temp. I particularly like it for cornbread, but I fear getting into a discussion of such a religious topic, and almost needs its own thread. It is pretty near indestructible, but when some unnamed person leaves it in the sink with water in it... Living in the snow salt belt has taught me techniques of rust management! (also something for another thread)

Quote:
I keep a 3 liter deep fryer loaded and ready to use at all times. I'm gonna die anyway and occasionally frying food isn't liable to hasten it all that much.


Yeah, I know what you mean! I published and perished anyway!
Thanks for the encouragement, it sure has got me motivated.
Stay tuned for results.
bon appťtit
Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
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#299293 - 03/06/17 06:10 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13772
Loc: Florida
Quote:
The Maillard reaction is a chemical reaction between an amino acid and a reducing sugar, usually requiring the addition of heat. Like caramelization, it is a form of non-enzymatic browning. The reactive carbonyl group of the sugar interacts with the nucleophilic amino group of the amino acid, and interesting but poorly characterized odor and flavor molecules result. This process accelerates in an alkaline environment because the amino groups do not neutralize. This reaction is the basis of the flavoring industry, since the type of amino acid determines the resulting flavor.

In the process, hundreds of different flavor compounds are created. These compounds in turn break down to form yet more new flavor compounds, and so on. Each type of food has a very distinctive set of flavor compounds that are formed during the Maillard reaction. It is these same compounds that flavor scientists have used over the years to create artificial flavors.
more sciency stuff here
So, yeah, I think we're pretty much on the same page. And bear in mind while torching your meat that above 355F a different reaction called pyrolysis occurs. Sometimes referred to as burning. A little bit of pyrolisis is a good thing and gives food a charred flavor. But a little bit too much imparts bitterness and a burned flavor. But as many torches as you seem to have on hand I'm going to assume you are pretty skilled in their usage.

While I won't necessarily vouch for the products sold by Omaha Steaks the styrofoam coolers they ship their frozen foods in are awesome. I've got a pile of them of varying sizes I collected over the years and one of the smaller ones(about 12x12x8 inches) fits my 12 quart sous vide setup perfectly. It might be worth ordering some things from them just to get the cooler.
I do overnight cooks out in the summer kitchen and even though nighttime temps here are in the mid 50s this time of year I don't see any point in overworking the immersion pod so I insulate it.

Quote:
the big weed burner is about 20 bucks at Harbor freight including a Piezoelectric lighter, and if you don't like it for cooking there is always Something in the yard that needs burning.
I'll look into that, but as I am a modernist in cooking so am I a man of modernist yardwork. I've got a garden sprayer and a jug of Roundup that burns the weeds not just to the ground but to the very root!

I just had a sous vide hamburger for lunch. Cooked a couple weeks ago and frozen in the bag it was cooked it. I dropped it in a 140 degree water bath to thaw it(about 10 minutes) then seared it in butter in a small cast iron skillet. Simply magnificent!
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#299294 - 03/06/17 06:14 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 379
Loc: Upstate NY
The Chicken thighs are in the sous vide! I chickened out last nite, about leaving a water pumping heat source unobserved overnight. I am a firm believer in Murphey's law, and had a roll of Murphy law toilet paper, with the many corollaries, hanging on the most troublesome pieces of equipment.

It had previously had a recirculating circuit through plastic hose, to allow a large reservoir of hot water to decrease the time needed to get to canning temperatures. This has been removed, and the most likely fail, leaking hose connection, has been eliminated.

My tank is too long to fit in a styrofoam cooler, so it is now temporarily covered with reflective duct insulation (Reflectix), R3-5, and IR reflectance of 94%.

Chicken Confit for dinner!
Will post results when done gorging!
Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#299310 - 03/07/17 03:55 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13772
Loc: Florida
You'll get that setup humming along and along. More than anything you want it to be easy to use and highly forgettable once you set it running.
This is the perfect container
I don't know if the insulation is even necessary, I just feel better using it. My stove pulls a lot more power and I'm not inclined to insulate my pots and pans to conserve energy while I cook. My Gourmia immersion pod says it has a 1200 watt heater. Anova and Joules have 800 watts. I don't really know what that means but the element itself only reaches a max temp of 203 degrees. Max water temp is 190. It doesn't dim the lights or anything when it cuts on and off. The sous vide and the fryer can run on the same circuit with no issues.
I'd rather drop it in a cooler than use that bag they sell for it though. More often than not I just cook with it uncovered on the counter. Lid and insulation are just for overnighters.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."ó Oscar Wilde

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#299311 - 03/07/17 04:29 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 379
Loc: Upstate NY
Greger is right on about the chicken confit! It melts in your mouth with intense flavor of what aromatics you selected. I have no fresh herb, in the frozen tundra, except for the Rosemary who winters in the bay window, as after only 30 plus years, I learned that Rosemary is not a perennial here! Thyme and oregano return every year.

I seared the skin side before sue vide, and noticed that already the skin was detaching. I think that an entire leg with drumstick and thigh would be more forgiving as the skin would be continuous and be better retained. They were more fragile after sous vide, and I ended up lightly broiling them with application of the flavored oil from the bags.

I had to add another 1/4 cup of olive oil to each quart bag to be able to seal them without voids, but this is no problem as I will have many uses for the savory oil.

Another possible error was the use of the stand up quart bags, that hindered sealing without air. Live and learn! It seemed like a good idea at the time... Frequently heard in Emergency Rooms.

My wife will surely appreciate the addition of vacuum lines and pressurized air outlets, all labs have these every 6 feet of counter.

I have the rest of the thighs marinating in Achiote Paste with a mix of citrus, including lime, orange, and grapefruit, as sour oranges never make it this far north. The goal is pseudo-Cochinita Pibil, that actually requires a pig and a pit of coals, that aint gonna happen up here.

The pork butt will be divided and some marinated with the leftovers from above, and I am looking to convert much of the rest to carnitos! So many carnitos in restaurants are tough and dry, and there are abundant sous vide remedies for that.

Any suggestions of carnito recipes! The only limitation of the sous vide process, is that you cant make taste guided corrections along the way.

That will not be a problem with the ribeye, as in the end the secret is in the sauce! I saw a Gorgonzola steak topping that looked scrumptious, and while perusing the fridge I found a pack of Blue Stilton. We had a great appetizer up in Jasper a while ago that was a Stilton Fondue served with crusty bread with pickled veggies. My wife was skeptical but was converted by the taste. I even pickled veggies, cauliflower, carrots, and peppers last summer for this dish, but it never happened. Hi dear whats for dinner on our slimming diet? Well I have planned this fondue... It is worth dying for!

Tat
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Except that it's lonesome work
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