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#300204 - 03/30/17 10:34 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13754
Loc: Florida
Oy vey! I'd never cook poultry of any sort without unwrapping it and washing it it before cooking. Whatever pathogens are there to begin with are most likely in the slimy mess surrounding the meat in the packaging. Even if you kill the pathogens there's a pretty good chance of transferring off flavors into the meat. Unless you buy minimally processed, air chilled poultry, your are not getting clean meat in that package.
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#300220 - 03/31/17 05:45 AM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6686
Loc: North San Diego County
USDA says never wash poultry before cooking it, because you are exposing yourself to pathogens in most cases. I still do anyway because I don't like eating chicken poop soup. I just keep the water flow very low, keep the parts low in the sink, and try not to breath too much. I guess it would be safer to make some strong brine and drop the unwashed parts in it for a while, as "washing".

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#300232 - 03/31/17 06:42 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 377
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
Oy vey! I'd never cook poultry of any sort without unwrapping it and washing it it before cooking. Whatever pathogens are there to begin with are most likely in the slimy mess surrounding the meat in the packaging. Even if you kill the pathogens there's a pretty good chance of transferring off flavors into the meat. Unless you buy minimally processed, air chilled poultry, your are not getting clean meat in that package.


Originally Posted By: TatumAH
Originally Posted By: Greger
Getting briefly back to topic...

POSTED 03/05/2017
NO NOT THAT!!!
Turkey sous vide
crispy-tender-confit turkey legs
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/crispy-tender-confit-turkey-legs

Well, I didn’t find any appropriate chicken in the freezer so it was off to the grocery. I selected a pork shoulder, a pack of chicken thighs, and a couple of turkey thigh packs containing a total of 4 thighs.
Back to the waterworks!
Tat


Ironically, in my defense, this is all Greger's fault. After review of secret documentation, as there was no "best used by date" label on the killer-thighs, I found the above posting dated 3/5/17 revealing the fester time line to be only 20 days, clearly borderline.

Greger instigated a state of temporary insanity such that I bought more meat than I could handle, though I can usually hold my own in this catagory. If he finds this accusation slanderous, he can sous me. He can pick the time, I'll pick the temp!

This will not hold up in court as I documented the state of mind at the time of full boared sous vide madness. (note to self, find whole boar image)

Anyway, by the time the acute disorientation passed, after several pork butt incursions, and countless chicken thighs confit, and a steak memorable episode, I belatedly found the turkey thighs about a week old in the garage, after outside temps rapidly changing from freezing to sudden spring 65F.

At that time I had already vetoed any consideration of actually eating them, but having a scientific interest in "worst case scenarios" I allowed the experiment to proceed until the outcome was definitive. (Spoiler alurp)Three weeks is adequate!

Quote:
Whatever pathogens are there to begin with are most likely in the slimy mess surrounding the meat in the packaging. Even if you kill the pathogens there's a pretty good chance of transferring off flavors into the meat.


As attractive as that sounds, I would say "off flavors" was a bit ewephemistic for the reality, and though many scientific finding should be repeated for validity, this cannot be recommended at home for those without necropsy experience.

Tat
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Except that it's lonesome work
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#300233 - 03/31/17 07:09 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 377
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
USDA says never wash poultry before cooking it, because you are exposing yourself to pathogens in most cases. I still do anyway because I don't like eating chicken poop soup. I just keep the water flow very low, keep the parts low in the sink, and try not to breath too much. I guess it would be safer to make some strong brine and drop the unwashed parts in it for a while, as "washing".


I agrrree, and I had planned an Auntie Fee sink washing, stomach turning, variation using the thighs with the addition of commit and 10% bleach, that I think might have been corrosive to my sink. After a good Auntie Fee Scrubbing, she put them back in their original bag a froze them till needed for a mass suicide dinner. I thought freezing the turkey thighs at this point, to be inadvisable. Could have named the dish "Tat Assed Turkey Thighs" TATT for short.

Variously aged Carrion is well established as a staple in the animal kingdom, and studies have shown the evolution of very effective bacterial killing conditions in the stomachs of turkey vultures.

Wild and domestic dogs have developed an alternative method of eliminating overripe carrion. Dogs as pack animals aggressively eat in competition with the pack, regardless of quality. If you dont get yours up front, you may starve. If it turns out the meal was, uh, too unsavory, they just puke it up and go looks for something else.

Tat

Originally Posted By: TatumAH
Way too young! She used much the same technical vocabulary that I use in the kitchen! She would have appeared more attractive to teens on PBS than Julia Childs.

Here is her Good Ass Chicken recipe! Lest we furrget!
Tat



Edited by TatumAH (03/31/17 09:07 PM)
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#300234 - 03/31/17 07:31 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 377
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Greger
Oy vey! I'd never cook poultry of any sort without unwrapping it and washing it it before cooking. Whatever pathogens are there to begin with are most likely in the slimy mess surrounding the meat in the packaging. Even if you kill the pathogens there's a pretty good chance of transferring off flavors into the meat. Unless you buy minimally processed, air chilled poultry, your are not getting clean meat in that package.


Originally Posted By: TatumAH
[quote=Spag-hetti]Thanks, guys. This is really interesting and I could be the first on my block ...


Hi Spag,

I feel it is my solemn responsibility to warn you about the obsessive disorder that can arise from the experience related to the total immersion baptism of sous vide! It is similar to other well recognized repetitive disorders that you may recognize, for example weedeater and powerwasher madness. Suddenly everything needs either the attention of the weedeater, or a good powerwashing. Takes the fleas right off the cats, though they tend to vanish for a while.

Any way, I blame all this on Greger, who fanned the flames of my smouldering interest into a full blown sous vide madness...

Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#300235 - 03/31/17 07:33 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: TatumAH]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13754
Loc: Florida
I know that "up north" a lot of yall don't have air conditioning. Just as here in Florida we don't really have much in the way of furnaces(I've heard of them but I'm not sure I've ever seen one) But I know you have a freezer. Whether you keep meat in your refrigerator or in a somewhat chilly garage, three days is about the maximum you want to keep it without freezing it.
I could probably pull up a chart from somewhere with the rate of food pathogen growth over various times and temperatures. But you're a pathologist, Tat, you know this stuff far better than I do.
Once food "turns" there's no salvaging it.
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#300236 - 03/31/17 07:38 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6686
Loc: North San Diego County
Maybe a decent burial in the backyard? If you could dig a hole deep enough.

Did I ever tell you about my wife's nadir as a County Veterinary Pathologist? She forgot to run a rabies titre on a dog they brought in, and I guess it bit somebody. She had to go out to the dead animal disposal company to look for the carcass. It was somewhere in a semi trailer filled with barrels of dead animals. It was about 95 degrees out, and even hotter in the trailer. She finally found it in a barrel topped with dead skunks!

The dog was negative for rabies.

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#300238 - 03/31/17 07:52 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13754
Loc: Florida
Quote:
USDA says never wash poultry before cooking it

If I've got to handle it before cooking it I'm exposing myself and my kitchen to those pathogens anyway. Better to wash it, put it in a mixing bowl, wash my hands and start clean. In the processing plants chickens are de-headed and bled, de-feathered in a machine with rubber paddles that slap the feathers off them, then gutted and thrown in a huge vat of filthy, ice cold brine to chill them before they get cut up and packaged. I expect they are washed more along the way somewhere but that sh!t's nasty.
"Minimally processed" poultry products gets to skip that time in the chicken poop soup, it's gutted and cleaned, then washed thoroughly and hung to dry and chill with cold air blowing on it. Then it's cut up and packaged. It's much cleaner, safer, and a lot more expensive.
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#300239 - 03/31/17 08:01 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13754
Loc: Florida

Quote:
The dog was negative for rabies.


Always a silver lining somewhere in even the most sordid of tales...
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#300241 - 03/31/17 11:03 PM Re: Sous vide cooking... [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8520
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Greger
Once food "turns" there's no salvaging it.

I recently learned that when people "turn" your only option is to shoot or stab them in the head. And don't let them bite you...
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