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#300905 - 04/25/17 03:00 AM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15953
I think the simplest reform is to treat income as income, period. Lottery, wages, sale, investment, dividend, interest, inheritance... Who cares how?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#300908 - 04/25/17 05:30 PM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6403
Loc: Highlands, Tx
RE is like the only God given global scam there is.

I don't object to people making oodles of money but I do object when the government is provides the cover for that and doesn't get a penny for its effort on behalf of a small group of people.

The question is, is low cost housing for the poor a part of government providing for the general welfare? If it is then government must figure out how to implement their contractual obligation. Making some people richer is not the solution. The solution is for government to provide that service in the most effectively.

You point to the hedgefund crew but the reality is real reform should touch every section of the code. Such comprehensive and intensive reform may require scrapping the current code and re-writing done only by tax experts.

Sometimes you gotta tear it all down to build it better
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#300914 - 04/26/17 01:05 AM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: rporter314]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7566
Loc: North San Diego County
You tear it all down and I bet you dollars to donuts every scam artist lobbyist gets his little "deal" in there in the final product. You would have to ban lobbying first to keep it honest.

It would be like holding a new Constitutional Convention: Who knows what kind of crap they would add.

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#300916 - 04/26/17 04:11 AM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6403
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I have been a long time proponent of divorcing lobbyists from any public officials with any private contact or contributions. If any special interest has something to sell make it public and transparent.

Maybe we have not advanced far enough to be able to write tax law ... maybe the anarchical conservatives are right ... maybe it should be a Darwinistic adventure
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#300917 - 04/26/17 04:39 AM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3802
Loc: Eugene, OR
Quote:
Who cares how?

And that indeed is a major problem with the tax code. Reagan guys worked long and hard to make sweat work derived income more taxable than other passive sources (stocks and bond income--less depreciation and repairs) and they shall not give up that preferential lowered taxed streams without a fight. No? One might ask--- why?

Because- these people (holders of publicly traded equities) are--Job! Creators. Just as the bible says. I mean--if I bought a stock after an initial offering, and it ascended from there, I have contributed to the well being of the company--no?..... Actually...... not, but it sounds and feels good--

But why should that matter?................ Never mind...

Itís a beautiful system. Jump aboard!!
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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#300918 - 04/26/17 08:18 AM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7566
Loc: North San Diego County
That might be true if companies only sold stock in an IPO and people only bought stock at the IPO. Of course both of these assumptions are false. I've been investing for over 35 years and I only bought stock at an IPO once. And that was a great risk! Who ever thought internet stock trading could make it big?

I've been invested for a long time in a BDC that offers new shares almost every year. When people buy the shares, that gives the company working capital so they can run their business and add to shareholder's dividends.

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#300922 - 04/26/17 04:14 PM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6403
Loc: Highlands, Tx
How does cutting taxes for a corporation induce me to buy their product if I don;t need it?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#300927 - 04/26/17 06:09 PM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6403
Loc: Highlands, Tx
i just listened to Sec Mnuchin and Adv Cohn and basically they said they will stimulate the economy by reducing taxes and offer no details ... just trust them and believe
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#300928 - 04/26/17 06:51 PM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: rporter314]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7566
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
How does cutting taxes for a corporation induce me to buy their product if I don;t need it?


Maybe they lower prices or increase advertising using the tax cut money. Then you can afford their product or become aware of it. Market forces do exist. There are only some markets were demand is inflexible or prices are not visible before buying, like health care. When you go to Amazon or Home Depot online and sort by price, you are participating in price selection.

But even if that is true, the assumption that government tax collection will increase because of lowering tax rates is only true to a point. Obviously, lowering tax rates to zero results in zero tax collection by government. Tax rates versus tax income is described by a bell curve and we are on the wrong side of the curve to get that response. If they did this it would blow a massive hole in the deficit, but Republicans always do just that. Remember: Deficits don't matter if a Republican is in the White House.

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#300933 - 04/26/17 08:42 PM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6403
Loc: Highlands, Tx
LOL ... people who "know" me think I am a bit peculiar. Madmen are simply blowing the cash if they are trying to induce me to buy. I buy quality when required, otherwise the cheap stuff is ok. I don't spend $100 on a gastronomical orgasm when all I want is some food to fill the belly.

So I am confused. How many people will Sec Mnuchin hire in response to his tax windfall? How many people will Exxon-Mobil hire as a result of their new found bankroll?

Will Mr Trump's company be able to finance new RE ventures based on his tax proposals? I can answer yes to that but still wonder where the jobs are.
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without equality there is no liberty

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