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#300503 - 04/07/17 05:46 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6845
Loc: North San Diego County
It will be very interesting to see how Russia reacts. Assad is a Russian client and ally. I guess they tried to make sure there were no Russian planes where they sent those cruise missiles.

I think it would have been much more effective to just send one cruise missile to take out Assad.

1.5 million dollars * 59 cruise missiles = 88.5 million dollars

Is the plan to spend Russia into submission, ala Reagan?

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#300505 - 04/07/17 08:14 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6845
Loc: North San Diego County
Interesting:

In 2013 when a Sarin gas attack left over 1400 dead outside of Damascus, most Republicans did not approve of President Obama striking Syrian military forces, so he didn't.

In 2017 when a Sarin gas attack left at least 70 people dead, President Trump sends in 59 cruise missiles and Republicans say: "God Bless America."

If it was up to me, use of chemical weapons would get your head of state's location nuked immediately. If they missed, they would keep on doing that until he or she was dead. Use of banned weapons makes the entire regime war criminals subject to execution.

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#300506 - 04/07/17 09:36 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40378
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Regarding Nunes: Sometimes your highest purpose in life is to serve as a bad example for others.

Yeah...no kidding! rolleyes , coffee
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#300507 - 04/07/17 09:37 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I thought this the other day .... could the ultimate distraction be Mr Trump going to war????


People are saying™ the very same thing. Hmm
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#300508 - 04/07/17 09:40 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
In 2013 when a Sarin gas attack left over 1400 dead outside of Damascus, most Republicans did not approve of President Obama striking Syrian military forces, so he didn't.

In 2017 when a Sarin gas attack left at least 70 people dead, President Trump sends in 59 cruise missiles and Republicans say: "God Bless America."


Bow
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#300510 - 04/07/17 12:52 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Schlack Offline
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Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9715
Loc: Ireland
Can someone please explain the moral difference between killing with chemical weapons and "conventional weapons*"?


Not sure I really understand it. Are there nice ways of killing?

*including depleted uranium shells and white phosphorous.
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#300512 - 04/07/17 01:58 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15378
Originally Posted By: Schlack
Can someone please explain the moral difference between killing with chemical weapons and "conventional weapons*"?


Not sure I really understand it. Are there nice ways of killing?

*including depleted uranium shells and white phosphorous.
This would take a very long time thoroughly. The short answer is, yes there is a moral difference, the most significant being the sheer illegality of chemical weapons (which CAN include white phosphorus). And, yes, there are "nicer" ways of killing. We have a number of treaties that cover these issues, the lead one being the "Geneva Conventions".
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#300518 - 04/07/17 03:31 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Ujest Shurly Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 216
Loc: Michigan, USA
Believe it or not conventional weapons are not considered indiscriminate while Nuclear, Chemical and Biological weapons by their very nature are indiscriminate. An indiscriminate weapon not only takes out the target(s) but also kills, wounds, maims the general population and the flora and fauna around the target(s).

Moral difference? I do not think there is one. But it is more a matter of degrees, or the lessor of the evils. It is the choice of the user on which weapon to use and that choice is what makes the act and the chooser evil.


edited: This is a response to Schlack, not pdx rick.


Edited by Ujest Shurly (04/07/17 09:43 PM)
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#300527 - 04/07/17 08:45 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6845
Loc: North San Diego County
Shooting at an enemy soldier who is shooting at you, certainly has different moral dimensions than dropping sarin gas on a village full of civilians. Somebody ends up dead, but you have to consider what they were doing when you killed them.

We (collectively) define what is and is not a war crime, but poison gas is one of the oldest banned weapons. I hope we have progressed a little over the last 100 years.

BTW: I think Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war crimes and terrorist acts in that they were attacks primarily on civilian populations in order to induce terror. Pearl Harbor, on the other hand was primarily an attack on military targets.

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#300528 - 04/07/17 09:23 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
Ujest Shurly Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 216
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
BTW: I think Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war crimes and terrorist acts in that they were attacks primarily on civilian populations in order to induce terror. Pearl Harbor, on the other hand was primarily an attack on military targets.


Beg to differ, both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were valid military targets. Now it is arguable that conventional bombing or fire bombing could have been used to the same effect over days as opposed to one bomb. Regardless, nukes are indiscriminate. If only we as a species could "forget" how they are made...

Hiroshima - "As a military target, Hiroshima was a major army base that housed the headquarters of the Japanese 5th Division and the 2nd Army Headquarters. It was also an important port in southern Japan and a communications center."

Nagasaki - "The city of Nagasaki was one of the most important sea ports in southern Japan. Although it was not among the list of potential targets selected by Oppenheimer's committee, it was added later due to its significance as a major war production center for warships, munitions, and other equipment."


Atomic Bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
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