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#300955 - 04/27/17 04:06 PM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15180
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#300956 - 04/27/17 04:11 PM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15180
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Maybe they lower prices or increase advertising using the tax cut money.
Nope. If you read the history, what they do is buy back stock and reward CEOs.
Quote:
We already tried a tax break to bring home foreign earnings. It failed. In 2004, Congress enacted a one-time amnesty allowing U.S. companies to repatriate earnings parked abroad at a bargain tax rate 5%, rather than the top rate of 35%. The idea was for them to spend the money on jobs and domestic investment.

Instead, corporations spent the money on stock buybacks to benefit their shareholders and to fatten executive pay. A Senate subcommittee report in 2011 determined that the 15 biggest companies taking advantage of the tax holiday, including Pfizer, Hewlett-Packard and IBM, actually cut jobs and reduced research spending. The treasury lost $3.3 billion in revenue over 10 years, the panel found.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#300964 - 04/27/17 06:15 PM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6023
Loc: Highlands, Tx
yeah but this time they will do something different (there is some definition about sanity or some such etc etc)

both Sec Mnuchin and Cohn said the middle class would benefit but they did not say how much .... personally I think all conservatives should want rich folks to get richer than Ft Knox, so they can contribute more money to elect more conservatives ... perpetuate the cycle ... etc

I see a plan for the greatest transfer of wealth America has ever known and no a single sole has a pitchfork in their hands
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#300966 - 04/27/17 07:11 PM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1592
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I believe that EVERYBODY should pay taxes. I also believe that the fact that there are many, that pay no taxes, due, at the top, to clever accounting, and the bottom where there is no money to pay said taxes. The problem with those on the bottom is that they don't care, they don't care enough to vote, they don't care about the news, they just do-not-care. The poor don't vote because they believe they don't count (that's the usual excuse). The only time they do vote is when somebody organizes them, like the raising of the minimum wage and even that doesn't last all that long. This also applies to the young vote (18 to, say, 22) For the most part they don't have much and also do-not-care.

The trick, I think, is to figure out how to force them to pay SOME taxes. It doesn't have to be much but that, I believe, will tweak their interest enough to get them act in their own best interest and actually vote.

Until we get ALL the electorate to vote our Democracy has a serious problem. Given the shift in employment coming down the path (loss of same), increase in homeless, etc. its really important that EVERYBODY weighs in when its time to vote. I have never understood why people don't understand that if they don't vote the elected know it and ignore them and they get screwed over. Then, every now and then, somebody gets them stirred up and they march. When is now coming down the path, however, is going to significantly change unemployment, and homelessness. Unless somebody figures out how to deal with it (in a humane way) its going to get very bad.

The industrial revolution created the Luddites. I fully expect the same sort of thing to happen in spades this time, and its gonna get serious. We have a government that not only denies anything to do with weather change but refuses to prepare for the results. The same is happening in regard to future employment. Between the two, in about 20 years I expect the nation to be little armed conclaves at battle with each other. I won't be alive then but I fear for my grandchilren, and great grandchildren as they are going to have really hard time due, mainly, to the seriously incompetence of the current electorate.

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#300971 - 04/27/17 11:00 PM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: NW Ponderer]
matthew Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 231
'
I think that no one should pay taxes --- so long as one cannot control what the taxes pay for.

If I cannot prevent my taxes paying for the Military-Industrial Complex, that is taxation without representation, and any good patriot should resist it by all means that are practicable.
.
_________________________
Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of Americans

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#300972 - 04/27/17 11:49 PM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
Sure, we should all just go down a list of government activities and check the ones we agree with. Then only pay taxes to support those items. But of course, everybody would get to do that, so some things you like would get very meager funding and some things you hate would get huge funding.

And I think it would all balance out in the end.

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#300973 - 04/27/17 11:56 PM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Until we get ALL the electorate to vote our Democracy has a serious problem.


You seriously want the mentally ill and intellectually-challenged people to vote? Would you want them as your bus driver?

I think democracy can only work with an educated voter base. Those who opt out of education should not vote. We can add a little competency test portion to the voter registration form. Nothing opinion-based, just simple verifiable facts. Get too many wrong and you sit out this election.

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#301001 - 04/30/17 06:12 PM Re: No Reform Without the Forms [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1592
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Given the results I am not convinced that the majority that voted in the last were not victims of mental problems. That being said there are a lot of things the mentally disabled should not be doing, like having guns. I guess that is, however, ok with our current congress.

I am not sure about picking and choosing where tax dollars go but I have consistently suggested that gov take a prime time hour of pbs, every night, and use that hour to explain just what various agencies do and, at the same time, allow viewers to vote on said agency. It might actually get really interesting given that gov itself really doesn't know how many agencies it actually has! https://cei.org/blog/nobody-knows-how-many-federal-agencies-exist (there are a lot of responses to this one when googled). Yet again; a serious politician would be more interested in FIXING gov rather than changing it (I also believe that the basis of most gov undertakings started for a good reason but has, perhaps, lost focus of the mission)

I am not sure about he military-industrial thing. Its necessary that we protect ourselves but, I think, we have gone a bit overboard. However, its the elected that created and support this stuff and they are the ones that should be called on it. Under the present administration, however, where the president is, as far as I can tell, using his office to garner more wealth from, basically anybody he can, and apparently getting away from it, who can blame the elected from jumping on that bandwagon and getting a little bit for themselves. (its pretty obvious that the nation itself comes in second)

Just saying...........


Edited by jgw (04/30/17 06:14 PM)

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