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#300680 - 04/14/17 02:26 AM Re: Sanity [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6837
Loc: North San Diego County
It's logical to assume our government is not functioning as well as it might, but that is no reason to elect the very people who want to make it even worse. Witness the Republican health care plan.

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#300682 - 04/14/17 02:24 PM Re: Sanity [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15373
I think modern electioneering requires voters to hold (at least) two contradictory thoughts in their heads at all times. Claims are made, divorced from logic or facts, and the voter is supposed to discern how that person might vote, who might be pulling their strings, and how they will interact with others. This is exacerbated by press that caters to factions and sponsors, and a whole slew of "background" players with their own agendas. Hell, a huge swath of voters doesn't know what they want, or will simply vote for the letter next to the candidate's name (usually because that's how their parents voted).

Survey after survey shows voter preference doesn't match representation. The work of our age is to fix that alignment, hopefully before the planet dies. There is a huge population in this world desperate for true leadership - people who will represent their interests, and do right by them.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#300685 - 04/14/17 05:55 PM Re: Sanity [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1634
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I would LOVE to vote for a politician who said; "I don't want to change anything. What I do want to do is to fix our existing government so that it actually functions better, from our elected down to the nitty gritty of our bureaucracies. After making the statement said politician would mention some of the things that he/she thought needs fixing. This could tell us a LOT about the candidate.

I am a bit tired of the 'change' thing which is, by definition, is fraught with danger <G>

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#300690 - 04/14/17 07:48 PM Re: Sanity [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6837
Loc: North San Diego County
I would love it if a politician would say upfront: "Here's exactly how we are going to fix Social Security so it will always be solvent: [X], [Y], [Z]." And then do it.

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#300705 - 04/15/17 05:54 PM Re: Sanity [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1634
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I would be grateful if they would actually try and fix ANYTHING! Instead its pretty simple. The right wants to scare us to death and move wealth to the wealthy. The Democrats, on the other hand, are going to change everything and everybody gets whatever they want (kinda).

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#300713 - 04/16/17 04:56 AM Re: Sanity [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6837
Loc: North San Diego County
Republicans are so funny: No matter what legislation they put forward, it always seems to have a part concerned with giving rich people more money. ACA replacement, tax reform, and I would be amazed if the infrastructure bill does not include some scheme to give rich people more money.

So damned predictable...

And of course, poor people keep voting for them because they don't want to pay a lot in taxes when they win the lottery next week.

_________________________
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

John Steinbeck

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#300732 - 04/17/17 06:40 PM Re: Sanity [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1634
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I think the trick is for the Dems to understand that there is a very real difference between perception and reality. The Republicans, on the other hand, understand this very well, and also understand that the country runs on perception and NOT reality. There is, for instance, a perception that the Republicans had nothing to do with the ACA and that is just plain wrong. I remember watching the markup of the ACA on Cspan. The Republicans are actually responsible for at least half of that really poorly written bill (I am not against the ACA but it needs a serious overhaul). They just didn't vote for it. Again, the trick is to base any advertising on what is perceived to be the way things are. The simple fact (as far as I can tell) is that people tend to pay attention to what they perceive as the truth and rarely the truth itself - perhaps reality is just too boring?

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#300733 - 04/17/17 07:19 PM Re: Sanity [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12567
Loc: Whittier, California
Fox has done to our parents and grandparents what everyone thought violent video games would do to us.
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#300756 - 04/19/17 01:11 AM Re: Sanity [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6837
Loc: North San Diego County
I just heard a good NPR show that was talking about The Death of Expertise. The author claimed that we are in the current situation because the idea of equality has been extended from "equal rights under the law" to "everybody's opinion is equally valid". The main problem is that everybody can go on the internet and find validation for whatever stupid opinion they hold. We don't need experts (Trump tells us!) because all expert info is available to everyone on the internet. So, for example, any idiot can run the country.

But of course, this is not true. As Donald Trump has discovered: He has to have some real experts like Mattis and Kelly on staff in order to accomplish anything.

They had another psychology professor on who has written a book about the tendency of humans to be over-optimistic. She had some hard data about people rejecting facts contrary to their beliefs and accepting facts that confirm. I am serious about poor people voting Republican because they are over-optimistic about their future riches, and her experiments certainly confirmed this.

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#300775 - 04/19/17 03:38 PM Re: Sanity [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13772
Loc: Florida
Quote:
all expert info is available to everyone on the internet. So, for example, any idiot can run the country.


It's a fail in Trump's case because he doesn't even use the internet.
His primary source of expert info appears to be FOX News.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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