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#301840 - 06/23/17 03:20 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6151
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I don't see any enthusiasm for filing charges against either Kushner or Mr Trump related to consorting with Russian mobsters (surrogates for Putin). He could shoot etc etc

Manafort is a civilian and may get a hickey

Gen Flynn, xmilitary, should have known better

I think you under-estimate Mr Trump ... I see pardons for everyone with a nice "I hope you go frak yourself" if you object .... what can I say .... he is a narcissist

but anyway it will be like France in 1917, slogging through the trenches to find any nuggets left behind
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#301843 - 06/23/17 08:23 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40321
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Pretty sure "they" are going to after Trump for money laundering. "They" don't want him going scott-free.
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#301844 - 06/23/17 10:52 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6151
Loc: Highlands, Tx
its political Rick

for example: emoluments clause ... one could argue he is in violation of the Constitution which is probably technically correct but the clause was written when people did not own huge chunks of wealth and could be possibly influenced from ordinary income made through ordinary business transactions. It was written for the case some government or individual made a personal gift to the president which could etc etc. I think his situation could rise to the level of a problem since the "income" is large.

but here is the problem for you ... I don't see any Republican making noise about this "problem" which is real, so why would you think any Republican would make waves over business dealings with mobsters?

He runs the presidency as if it were a reality show ... how demeaning can he get? obviously even more ... is that enough? nope

what about lying all the time? nope

what about giving away state secrets? nope

he is the president and unless it is a BJ in the oval and Sen Cruz objects you got nothing until and unless Republicans believe he will severely damage the party. and so far, even though some are making talk like that, they are not publicly jumping ship.

Bottom line ... watch the Republicans not the evidence
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#301852 - 06/23/17 10:20 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6767
Loc: North San Diego County
As long as they act before the 2018 elections, they should be okay. Several months to be safe. Then they can claim they were just trying to support the duly elected President but couldn't put up with all his crimes.

If they fail to impeach him, Democrats will make massive gains in Congress. Then THEY will impeach him. He's toast either way. Republican Congressmen will want to keep their jobs.

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#301865 - 06/25/17 02:26 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13759
Loc: Florida
Quote:
If they fail to impeach him, Democrats will make massive gains in Congress. Then THEY will impeach him. He's toast either way. Republican Congressmen will want to keep their jobs.

Deep in my heart I hope that this is true. But, barring some unforeseen major crisis, the practical side of me feels that Republicans will likely hang on to their majority by the skin of their teeth in the midterms.
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#301883 - 06/25/17 08:55 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Greger]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15334
I have come to believe that Trump's ties to Russia are deeper, and more nefarious, than I previously thought. I came to this conclusion based upon the timing of his "rigged election" tweets/statements. SOMEONE on the Trump team planted that thought/created that mantra. And it happened weeks BEFORE the hacks actually occurred. So, either Trump knew, or someone on his staff told him it was going to happen and he needed to be ahead of it.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#301884 - 06/25/17 11:40 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6151
Loc: Highlands, Tx
but his comments implied the system was rigged against him i.e. the media was against him, the electoral system was against him, etc

i think that meme was to energize conservatives who have long been told everyone is against them (and they believe it)

here are some items which have some basis
Manafort did and continued to have close ties to Russians and in fact supported loosening sanctions to accepting Russian annexation of Ukrainian territories

Page was easily manipulated since he was a little flaky ... he still believes he is aware of Russian kompromat but was he aware of changing policy positions based on suggestions from Russians?

Stone is also delusional but he had contacts with both Guccifer and Assange ... this guy is a well known trickster and what could be more tricky than getting the Russians to help Mr Trump win an election they already wanted him to win .... is it a case of like minds or was he useful to the Russian effort?

Gen Flynn ... my God man ... are you frakking serious

Kushner and his secret meetings with Russian mobsters and spooks ... eyes wide open or is ignorance bliss?

I have to wonder if there was criminal collusion how did they communicate? Did they send smoke signals? The closest anyone has to campaign collusion is Stone and all his coms were tete de tete, so unless some intel group has access to Assange or Guccifer, there is not much going to happen.

It is possible Mr Trump has knowledge the Russians were working for him but it would have been 2nd hand and of course since no one was "tapping" American conversations, Mr Trump would have to give it up.

Maybe think Col Jessup ... is Mr Trump narcissism and ego so great he would blurt it out and dare anyone to frak with him?
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#301885 - 06/26/17 02:20 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6767
Loc: North San Diego County
Well he DID say on TV during the campaign that Russia should hack Hillary's emails. He may have just been lying as usual, but maybe not?

Stone probably told him all about Guccifer and Assange and what they were doing.

So really, if he knew about it and publicly encouraged it, what more do you need? Copies of checks from Trump to Guccifer? Signed letters thanking him? An invitation to spend Christmas with the Trump family?

He's guilty as hell, and if he wasn't President he would have been indicted long ago.

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#301886 - 06/26/17 12:49 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6151
Loc: Highlands, Tx
A curiosity is his tweet from the other day blaming Pres Obama for not doing anything. Many reporters have interpreted that to mean Mr Trump accepts Russian meddling but nothing can be further from an accurate interpretation. What Mr trump was saying is IF Pres Obama thought it to be important etc .... since we know Mr Trump does not think it important nor does he think it is true or valid, Mr Trump will do nothing.

Also note that by rejecting any truth or validity of the Russian statements by anyone, including the IC, he is in essence elevating his own stature as the winner of the election without any help from Russians i.e. it is about him and his narcissism.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#301887 - 06/26/17 01:08 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15334
Originally Posted By: rporter314
but his comments implied the system was rigged against him i.e. the media was against him, the electoral system was against him, etc
That is exactly what caught my attention... Trump historically, and repeatedly, "projects" onto opponents exactly the fault he perceives in himself ("I'm not a puppet, you're a puppet"). His "crooked Hillary", "Lyin' Ted", etc, etc, ad nauseum. I could flesh that out, but it would take too long. The point is, he does that to blunt an attack he's either had, or knows is coming. In this case, what is telling is that he started it merely two weeks BEFORE the hacks started (July 2016). Roger Stone very well could be his source (given his Guccifer and Assange connections).

Witting collusion does not require in depth knowledge. Trump is a very simple machine that is extremely easy to manipulate. His actions and reactions are very predictable - like a toddler. He has no "governor". He has a reputation for agreeing with the last person he had contact with. Simple. Be there last one in the room.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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