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#306028 - 03/16/18 08:59 PM Re: The Hoarding of the American Dream [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7773
Loc: North San Diego County
No way to get there from here. You need something as bad as the Great Depression to get FDR's social programs. Maybe on a lunar colony?

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#306029 - 03/16/18 10:04 PM Re: The Hoarding of the American Dream [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Online   content

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14108
Loc: Florida
Quote:
You need something as bad as the Great Depression to get FDR's social programs.

Donald Trump is going to deliver that to us on a gilded platter.
_________________________
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#306032 - 03/17/18 01:50 PM Re: The Hoarding of the American Dream [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 914
Originally Posted By: logtroll
It could be that we need to dig really deep and identify the "genetic" cultural influences beneath American attitudes and behavior.

If that is the basic problem, a cultural psychopathy of greed and grabbing, then what is the solution? How do we change a culture that is so deeply embedded that it is blasphemy to even discuss it? I don't think there is a step by step solution, it's just got to be eroded over a long period of time, probably with moments of lurching forward on the momentum of one disaster or another (Great Depression, peak oil, climate change, school shootings, etc.)

Not very happy and optimistic, I'll admit. But, you can't solve a problem until you understand what the problem is...


The genetic cultural question is a good one. I think homosapiens are predisposed to behaviors that proved helpful over the last hundred thousand years. Self organizing and ability to co-operate on a large scale are a biggie despite what libertarians and crack pot Ayn Randians would believe.
I remember reading in Mark Twains autobiography that a great change came over the country as a result of the California gold rush.the overall tone became open greed and get rich quick. It's an american thing.
Then there's the big transformation that happened during WW11 and the cultural changes that resulted. The guiding hand thru much of this were the Roosevelt's of course. I believe that Franklin and Eleanor could foresee the coming unleashed forces after war time and the threats they would pose, yet again, on ordinary Americans and our form of government. Hence his Economic Bill of Fights.
Sadly this did not happen and the war effort gave birth to peace time consumerism.
That seems to be the guiding organizing principle to our culture more so than the 'enlightenment trinity' of liberty, equality, and fraternity referenced in earlier linked WEF precariat article.
All of this is one of choice but there are vested interested in the status quo that have successfully limited those choices thru propaganda, tribalism, fraud aind fear to keep the system going.
The boomers were constantly flattered by the media landscape for decades and the status quo was maintained. Gen X's have been mostly ignored as they represent less voting and economic power. The millenials on the other hand seem to have a pretty good grasp of the challenges they face and the environment that they have been given is much different than previous generations. The end of organized human life is very much part of the scenery for them and they have the challenge of trying to make changes to avoid that future while getting resistance from the status quo. The gun protest comes to mind. They recognize this is their fight and so will be many more. Luckily they have the votes to make that change possible. Hopefully, they will be able to avoid the cultural traps of tribalism, consumerism and selfishness that has marked the generations ahead of it.


Edited by chunkstyle (03/17/18 03:48 PM)

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#306051 - 03/17/18 11:57 PM Re: The Hoarding of the American Dream [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7773
Loc: North San Diego County
I find it interesting that there is lower gun ownership in America, but gun owners typically own more guns. If this trend continues, guns will become more and more concentrated in fewer hands, until the vast majority can make them illegal or highly restricted. Gun nuts make a lot of noise, but the NRA only claims about 5 million members. In a population of 325 million, 5 million is a tiny minority when it comes down to voting. We could vote tomorrow to allow no private holding of guns, making them temporary armory check-outs for ranchers who need to kill something, or to allow just one single-shot shotgun for home protection. With advances in technology, we could even say only guns that work at home are allowed.

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#306052 - 03/18/18 12:36 AM Re: The Hoarding of the American Dream [Re: pondering_it_all]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3819
Loc: Eugene, OR
But, but, they (the true US patriots) have these assorted popguns in order to fight off and protect themselves from the corrupt and dangerous Federal Government that wants to inter all of us into FEMA and other assorted concentration camps. With these popguns they will be able to fend off the entire US Armed Forces and all of their following list of weapons, intelligence, and technologies:

Uhh--check the internet. The list is entirely too long to insert here.

But with their long and short guns they shall protect us all from a tyrannical federal government hell bend on destroying us and “our freedoms”. Actually-- they likely don’t give a chit about “us”.

Just them.
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#306054 - 03/18/18 08:38 AM Re: The Hoarding of the American Dream [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7773
Loc: North San Diego County
Actually, the prospect of all those gun nuts deciding they want to shoot it out with the US government fills me with glee! Armored personnel carriers could just drive down the streets and pop one mortar round into each nut's home and be on it's way to the next address. It's their choice: If they want to die, so be it.

The next morning we would be free of these aholes, and could create sensible gun policies. Guns do nothing to protect our freedom.

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#306057 - 03/18/18 06:39 PM Re: The Hoarding of the American Dream [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Online   content

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14108
Loc: Florida
You folks got it all wrong. The US Military will side with the gun nuts, refusing to engage them, turning on their commanding officers and supporting the insurrection. This is the entire purpose of the 2nd amendment.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306073 - 03/21/18 01:00 AM Re: The Hoarding of the American Dream [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7773
Loc: North San Diego County
The gun nuts would like to think that, anyway.

The conditioning you get to follow orders and not think is very difficult to overcome. Enlisted troops care the most about their fellow soldiers. They don't give a f&%k about some civilian domestic terrorists. There is not a big white-supremacist population in the army. They have been integrated for so long, the KKKers that join get kicked out quickly. A lot of DIs are black and they root that shite out.

Have you ever noticed that most alt-right types seem to be about 100 lbs overweight?

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#306079 - 03/21/18 11:56 PM Re: The Hoarding of the American Dream [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 914
Sanders held another town hall Monday night addressing this very issue . Very informative and important work he's doing. Alas, he won't bend the knee to the corporatist Dems and pledge allegiance to their party.

A good synopsis


Edited by Jeffery J. Haas (03/22/18 12:27 AM)
Edit Reason: FIXED URL

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#306081 - 03/22/18 12:26 AM Re: The Hoarding of the American Dream [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13230
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Sanders held another town hall Monday night addressing this very issue . Very informative and important work he's doing. Alas, he won't bend the knee to the corporatist Dems and pledge allegiance to their party.

[url=inthesetimes.com/article/21002/bernie-sanders-inequality-town-hall-left-economic-debate]A good synopsis[/url]


WRT to "pledging allegiance", he was SUPPOSED to join and become the broom that made the clean sweep!! tonbricks mad
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