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#301990 - 07/02/17 02:14 PM Public Option is the ONLY Option
NW Ponderer Online   content
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In 2008-9, when the original forms of law that eventually became Obamacare (PPACA) were being formulated, they included a "public option" for health insurance. Public Option - Wikipedia. Some referred to it as "Medicare you can buy into".
Quote:
The public option was featured in three bills considered by the United States House of Representatives in 2009: the proposed Affordable Health Care for America Act (H.R. 3962), which was passed by the House in 2009, its predecessor, the proposed America's Affordable Health Choices Act (H.R. 3200), and a third bill, the Public Option Act, also referred to as the "Medicare You Can Buy Into Act", (H.R. 4789).
Indeed, Public Option was included in the version of the ACA passed by the House - "but was removed after Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) threatened a filibuster."

Two complaints often brayed by Republican insurance company toadieslegislators is that 1) Democrats haven't proposed any solutions,* and 2) in rural counties, private insurance providers are pulling out of the exchanges. The first is untrue, and the second can be instantly fixed by a public option. (* "In January 2013, Representative Jan Schakowsky and 44 other U.S. House of Representatives Democrats introduced H.R. 261, the "Public Option Deficit Reduction Act", which would amend the Affordable Care Act to create a public option. The bill would set up a government-run health insurance plan with premiums 5% to 7% percent lower than private insurance. The Congressional Budget Office estimated it would reduce the United States public debt by $104 billion over 10 years. Representative Schakowsky reintroduced the bill as H.R. 265 in January 2015, where it gained 35 cosponsors." Wikipedia, footnotes omitted.)

Quote:
The biggest political selling point about this is that a public option would be just that, optional. Call it “Medicare for all, if that’s what you want,” perhaps. Or rebrand it entirely as something like “Medichoice,” to take its place alongside Medicare and Medicaid. By doing so, Democrats could avoid a tsunami of Republican negative ads which screamed: “Washington bureaucrats are going to force you into their plan!” But unlike universal single-payer, Medichoice might actually have a prayer of garnering Republican votes and passing this Congress.
Democrats Should Bring Back The Public Option - Huffpo (opinion).

I can pretty much guarantee that in rural America, a "MediChoice" plan (has a ring to it, doesn't it?) would be gobbled up in an instant. Initially, it could be made available wherever "one or fewer" providers offer an ACA-qualified plan in this or the preceeding two years. MediChoice would compete with existing plans. The problem for those insurers, of course, is that MediChoice, like Medicare, would be much cheaper to administer and have much lower overhead - thus would compete favorably. That's why the industry and its spokespeople (e.g., Joe Lieberman) hate it so much. Another inclusion in legislation that would bring costs down precipitously would be allowing MediChoice/Medicare to negotiate prescription prices (just as all other insurance plans do).

Benefits of this approach are legion: Doctors and patients would love it! (74% of doctors supported this option in 2009). It would "level the playing field" in rural America. It supports competition! It is optional! What's not to like?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#301993 - 07/02/17 04:01 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12732
Loc: Whittier, California
Joe Lieberman was an actual Democrat back when he destroyed the Public Option.
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#301995 - 07/02/17 05:17 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6211
Loc: Highlands, Tx
NWP .... you are trapped in a bubble

After reading your comment it reminded me of news reporters trying to impute rational meaning to what Mr Trump, a known narcissist, says and does. He has a personality disorder and everything he says or does only has meaning for him to prop up his ego.

Likewise conservatives do not care what reasonable, rational plan you have if the federal government is involved. It could cost nothing and cover everyone and they would still be against it. Idiot-ology is their safe haven. It is their refuge and if you believe something involving the federal government which is reasonable and rational and cost effective would entice them to consider it then you are in a bubble.

1860 ... does it ring a bell? The country was divided on whether the states had certain rights or the federal government could impose certain laws on the states. We are at the same impasse.
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#302116 - 07/08/17 05:50 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   content
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Registered: 09/09/11
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GOP ideology is straightjacketing the American economy. It has been well established that Republicans are good at destroying viable economies. What is less well understood is why, but the Health care debacle is a good illustration. Republicans, based on ideological predisposition, look for "market based solutions" for every issue. This approach is bound to failure for at least three reasons:

First, Americans don't care about "markets", they want Health care. They know they have to pay something for their care, but they are afraid of bankruptcy (a rational concern). Second, health care is not an ordinary market. Here they confuse "economic activity" with a "market". Not all economic activity implies a market. Police and fire protection, standing armies, judicial conduct and prisons, all have economic effects, but they're not "markets", and thinking of them like that creates perverse effects (like private prisons).

Finally, by trying to shoehorn Health care into the wrong paradigm, they are actually distorting our economy in very detrimental ways, which is why we overpay for substandard health services. Moreover, it creates a national disadvantage in global markets. In nations with national Healthcare systems, Healthcare is not a direct burden on companies actually competing in marketplaces. It's like trying to fight with one hand tied behind your back.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302125 - 07/08/17 06:20 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Loc: North San Diego County
The whole idea that healthcare operates as a free market shows they are out of touch with reality. When you need a medical service, you don't shop around for the best price. That describes a cash patient, who will pay 5-10 times the insurance company negotiated rate for the service.

Anybody with any sense gets a policy that is limited to certain medical groups, finds a primary care provider within a medical group, and then sticks to that provider and specialists in the medical group he or she recommends. Where does any opportunity for shopping come into play? Insurers make you pay a stiff penalty for not following this procedure. They may not pay at all, if you violate it by shopping around. If you switch providers within your medical group you will find they all collect the same insurance policy copays. Going outside the group is VERY VERY expensive, so it can never compete on price.

And people who try to "self-insure" by going without insurance discover as soon as they get sick that their hospital bills are so high, they lose their life savings and house before declaring medical bankruptcy. Either that, or just go without and possibly die needlessly because they want to leave their family with something when they are gone. They might be able to spend down all their assets and then go on Medicaid, but that takes time. They may not have it.

So the whole idea is not based on reality, but some Republican fantasy.

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#302126 - 07/08/17 09:48 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Online   content
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1744
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The fantasy extends to "the market" (the myth that competition will solve everything (there is NO COMPETITION!)) which simple does-not-exist. The simple fact is that it is in the best interest of everybody that health care stops being a for profit industry and becames a public service industry. Anybody who has ever talked to anybody who has such (basically, the rest of the industrialized world) thinks, pretty much, that we are simply insane to have it any other way.

Basically, as far as I am concerned, the right have allowed their extremists to call their shots.


Edited by jgw (07/08/17 09:51 PM)

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#302199 - 07/11/17 09:50 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40557
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Rumorhazzit that the House Dems* are going full Medicare For All™ for the 2018 race.

(*All of them Katie laugh )
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#302200 - 07/11/17 09:55 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
...people who try to "self-insure" by going without insurance discover as soon as they get sick that their hospital bills are so high, they lose their life savings and house before declaring medical bankruptcy.

You mean these people don't have the energy from being too sick to shop around the best price as CONservative Free Market enthusiasts want everyone to do? coffee
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#302201 - 07/11/17 09:56 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: jgw]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40557
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: jgw
(there is NO COMPETITION!)

Well not anymore - they all merged. Hmm

(Shhh...CONservatives haven't gotten that memo yet. They're too busy chanting MAGA and trolling comment sections telling everyone how great Trump is as President. rolleyes )
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#302206 - 07/11/17 12:21 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6211
Loc: Highlands, Tx
does anyone have any links to sites which discuss scoring public options plans and single payer plans???
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#302231 - 07/12/17 12:05 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7098
Loc: North San Diego County
Shopping around for the best price is nearly impossible anyway: Hospitals all have a Charge Register (or something like it under a different name) which is a list of prices for every service, device, drug, etc. they charge to clients. They guard it fiercely, because it has list prices. These may be 5-10 times what the insurance company negotiates, and are what they would charge the "market shopper" who walks in without insurance. This is the basis of the $5.00 aspirin tablet. (Oh, wait, you had two: That'll be $10 please.)

Just try to get a price out of them. They won't tell you. And even if they gave you a fixed price, you would be charged more for any complications, other specialists, anesthesia, lab tests, etc.

This is all because we do this insane cost-shifting in our system: Insured patients only pay the negotiated price. Medicaid and Medicare patients pay less. And uninsured patients pay through the nose until they are broke and go on Medicaid. And then hospitals get government bailouts or close to make up the difference.

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#302233 - 07/12/17 04:10 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7098
Loc: North San Diego County
A public option plan could actually deliver everything Trump promised: Coverage for everybody, lower premiums, no pre-existing exclusions, and no caps.

It would cost 15% less than whatever insurance companies are charging for exchange policies now, since the overhead would drop from ACA's 20% to Medicare's 5%. The very same insurance companies now process claims for non-exchange employer policies, ACA policies, and Medicare. It would actually get simpler with more people on a single public option with no exclusions because the companies would not need all those employees trying to deny claims. (That's not cheap!)

You would need to bite the bullet and say everybody not covered by another ACA-compliant policy had to have it. No more mandate, just a law: No insurance means no treatment. (I really don't mind that the AHCA has stricter coverage start rules than ACA.) Starting up coverage can have much higher copays for the first year, just to encourage people not to wait until they get sick.

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#302342 - 07/16/17 12:36 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8631
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
A conservative case for single-payer

Quote:
The GOP's latest health-care push is a magic show featuring the same malnourished rabbit being pulled from the same shabby top hat Republicans have been reaching their fingers into for years before pronouncing their now-familiar incantations.

Abracadabra! they always say. Allowing companies to sell insurance across state lines! Alakazam! Block-granting — is there an uglier formulation in the English language? — Medicare to the states! Presto-chango! Medical malpractice reform! Hocus-pocus! Health savings accounts! And for my last trick, keeping the expansion of Medicaid but not paying for it!

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"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#302343 - 07/16/17 01:39 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6211
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Unfortuinately for several reasons your guy was not convincing for anyone but those who are already convinced.

Ideologically it would never convince Sen Cruz that government involvement in health care can not necessarily be a good thing but can be a reasonable thing.

Where is the score? It makes sense in every kind of way but until there are numbers which tell people what the cost is, it won't make any head way.

Anyone seen a score on 1-payer?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#302344 - 07/16/17 03:26 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: rporter314]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8631
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Someone needs to work on a plan so it can be scored.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#302345 - 07/16/17 03:38 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
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Posts: 15537
Yes. Although some of these number are now mostly old, the issue was analyzed in the 1990s, and after. Today's numbers would be different, in part because they are compared to the ACA. CBO Analysis: How Much Would Single Payer Cost? (updatex2)
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302348 - 07/16/17 08:46 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7098
Loc: North San Diego County
All of the studies basically come down to the 30% or so "overhead" insurance companies were getting before ACA. That is the percentage of premiums not spent on actual health care. Insurance companies throw a lot of stuff into that overhead. A big chunk of it used to pay for all the people who used to work for them trying to deny claims. They don't do that under ACA, but they would with the Republican plans.

Now ACA limits them to 20% overhead. (Blue Shield of California actually sent me a check a few years ago because they had to get down to 20%.) But all of these same insurance companies process Medicare claims at 5% overhead, and apparently they are not running into profitability problems doing that because they keep on sending me elaborate solicitation information packets to get me to switch to their Medicare Advantage plan.

A single-payer plan could be like Medicare-for-all, with the 5% overhead. So right there is a 15% savings. Of course, the maximum overhead could be anything Congress wants to write into law. They could put it back to 30% and then claim single-payer is more expensive than ACA. I'm just saying that the insurance companies are not going broke at Medicare's 5%.

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#302355 - 07/17/17 04:21 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15537
NYT headline: McCain’s Surgery Will Delay Senate Votes on Healthcare Bill. Can you get more hypocritically ironic than that? The vote to take away Healthcare from millions is delayed so a Senator can get free surgery on the government dime? Optics? Shame? Anyone?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302356 - 07/17/17 04:56 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40557
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
NYT headline: McCain’s Surgery Will Delay Senate Votes on Healthcare Bill. Can you get more hypocritically ironic than that? The vote to take away Healthcare from millions is delayed so a Senator can get free surgery on the government dime? Optics? Shame? Anyone?

I'm surprised McConnell didn't blame 'The Dems' like he did last time... coffee

...when it was really the Freedumb Cuckolds that held up the vote. Hmm
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#302365 - 07/18/17 08:40 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40557
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

McConnell Announces a Vote on Obamacare Repeal with 2-Year Delay After Current Bill Falters


The GOP owns three branches of government, and they can't even come-up with legislation. All the GOP does is sit around with their thumb up their ass collecting a government paycheck. mad
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#302366 - 07/18/17 11:37 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   content
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Posts: 15537
This is a dangerous time. Although I can't disagree with your assessment, beware the "clean" repeal. I don't see the moderates going with it, but that is McConnell's strategy - being able to blame the moderates for the "failure" rather than the freedom caucus or himself. The truth is, he's a lousy leader, but he needs to deflect blame.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302367 - 07/18/17 12:04 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6211
Loc: Highlands, Tx
wow .... simply allow ACA to collapse .... blame Dems for it ... come to rescue with a worse law and blame the Dems for it

mean while millions lose HC


an intersting political move
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#302371 - 07/18/17 05:18 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7098
Loc: North San Diego County
Repeal is not reconciliation. Doesn't it require 60 votes in the Senate? I think McConnell expects repeal to fail, so he can blame moderates, but the math won't work out for that.

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#302374 - 07/18/17 06:04 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8631
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Repeal is not reconciliation. Doesn't it require 60 votes in the Senate?

I think you are right. But in any case, 3 Regressives have already come out against 'repeal only'.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#302375 - 07/18/17 07:41 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40557
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

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#302377 - 07/18/17 09:03 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Online   content
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1744
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I just wish they would pass their plan, or, better yet, repeal. If they do this the ACA will fail VERY fast and Trump will then lose his base (the 30% he actually has) and next year they can all be voted out of office. It would seem, however, that the righteous right of congress actually fear losing their jobs so who knows? The Dems have been standing up with an actual plan and the right seems to be blinking so what we have is a heathcare crap shoot and little else. Its obviously not about actual healthcare but jobs for the elected and party loyalty.

I have always wondered why nobody is talking about the 150+ ACA Republican amendments. I remember, at the time, how they worked, very hard, to amend the hell out of it and then refused to vote for a bill that they wrote at least half of. One would think that the left would point this out, but ............... (I suspect one could goto cspan and actually see videos of the markup)

Now the big deal is to simply remove the ACA and replace (maybe) in 2 years. If the conservatives, you know, the ones who are always talking about taking care of the national debt, pass this one they will increase the debt by well over 100 billion dollars! (as well as destroying healthcare in America). Of course, they will also be unable to ever pass anything, have made up their minds that the Dems are the devil incarnate, etc. so they will own it ALL! One might google "national debt democrat vs republican" to garner more virtually ignored by everybody.

Then there is (based on the fact that the Dems seem to buy into this one along with the right) the healthcare market myth (google "healthcare market myth). There is no such thing as a healthcare market!!! I really don't understand this one either. This is the basis of all arguments of the right and the assumption there is such a market is just another damned lie, evidently accepted by ALL sides!

As far as I can tell the Dems just keep on missing a LOT of factual arguments when 'resisting'. There is a claim that the Democrats have not communicated just what they stand for and this may be true. I must get at least 20 emails a day asking for money and little else - just something else I don't get - must be old age. They could, for instance, start talking about how they are better with the debt than the republicans (as well has a few more things which they seem to ignore)


Edited by jgw (07/18/17 09:05 PM)

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#302381 - 07/19/17 09:16 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40557
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


For seven years, they had one job. They couldn't even do THAT while owning three branches of government.

What a bunch of incompetents. LOL

(...but America won - and that's what counts! laugh )
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#302384 - 07/19/17 05:45 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7098
Loc: North San Diego County
I was reading some website yesterday about the threatening letter police found at Senator Heller's office the other night. It said that killing ACA would kill the author, and he would take Heller with him. It was a pretty stark death threat.

That's not the unusual thing. I'm sure that happens on a regular basis. The unusual thing is that there were over 3000 reader posts, and I did not see a single one that did not support the letter writer!

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#302387 - 07/20/17 10:14 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
matthew Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 319
'
What a "shower" these so-called "conservative" crypto-fascists are !!

For years they have been hysterical about "Obamacare," passing bill after bill repealing it (as long as they were sure Obama would veto it), proclaiming that as soon as they had the power, they would repeal it and replace it with a red-white-and-blue true American plan --- they had it all ready to go!

And now that they have power, and have to face the consequences of repeal (like being tarred and feathered at the next election), watch them stumble all over themselves like the Keystone Kops!

What a pathetic bunch of "leaders" of a country!

Meanwhile, out there in the Real World, civilized countries have had sensible, well thought-out health care for decades and decades!
.
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#302392 - 07/21/17 02:20 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: matthew]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7098
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
watch them stumble all over themselves like the Keystone Kops!


Well, they never thought Trump would actually win...

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#302442 - 07/26/17 06:41 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7098
Loc: North San Diego County
They voted on Mitch McConnell's Better Care Reconciliation Act. Only got 43 votes! Now there trying to think up something they can pass. They still have the seemingly insurmountable problem that anything the conservatives like, the moderates hate, and vice versa.

They say they are looking for a "skinny bill", one with not much in it. Okay, how about a bill to just change the name of ACA to "RomneyCare". That's pretty damned skinny.

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#302445 - 07/26/17 10:07 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15537
I'm tired of all the negativity. Let's make a list of Republican accomplishments in the last 20 years. I'll start.
.. um. Uh. Shoot.

Okay, 40 years. Ah. Well... okay.

I got nothin'.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#302447 - 07/26/17 12:41 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15537
Now that, thankfully, the blunderbuss of a health care overhaul that was the atrociously misnamed "Better Health Care Act" has died an inglorious death, it will be important to kill its hydra-like offspring seriatim, and in detail. Nothing proposed by the GOP improves "healthcare" by any measure (even their own).

The Senate needs to follow Senator McCain's lead and return to regular order, in a non-partisan fashion to find a real solution (ahem, public option). There are perhaps market-based tweeks, too. The focus needs to be on what works, not what follows party-branding ideology. There is a particularly acute problem in rural America. Start there.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302448 - 07/26/17 02:10 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6211
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I listened to Scaramouche this morning and it is clear there will be no rational approach to HC. It will be based on the notion the free market will do the job better because that is what conservative ideology says it will do.

So you can forget any thought about public option or single payer or any other plan which does not make room for a huge 1% tax payer cut.

The political calculus (and reality in states where these extremists reside) may be they do not care what happens to people because their base, their supporters, their voters do not want the government involved in anything.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
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#302449 - 07/26/17 04:41 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13828
Loc: Florida
Our best hope, and probably our only option to achieve single payer, is to let Republicans have their way. Like everything else they do it will fail. Spectacularly. Yes, many will die, more will suffer, but there appears to be no other way.
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#302472 - 07/28/17 06:16 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7098
Loc: North San Diego County
Skinny Republican bill is dead. It's over. Republicans give up. They can't pass anything thanks to McCain, Murkowski, and Collins.

Now the House can go back to passing Kill Obamacare bills that the Senate ignores.

These three were smart not to trust the House not to pass it straight to Trump to sign. There were actually several more Senators who were against the bill but believed Ryan and McConnell when they said it would get fixed in a conference and come back for another vote. But you know those guys are lying weasels. I guess these three Republican Senators know exactly what kind of rodents they are dealing with.

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#302473 - 07/28/17 08:36 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40557
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I'm tired of all the negativity. Let's make a list of Republican accomplishments in the last 20 years. I'll start.
.. um. Uh. Shoot.

Okay, 40 years. Ah. Well... okay.

I got nothin'.


ROTFMOL , laugh
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#302474 - 07/28/17 10:01 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40557
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Skinny Republican bill is dead. It's over. Republicans give up. They can't pass anything thanks to McCain, Murkowski, and Collins.

I'm sure our great and wonderful "successful businessman" President has the sad today. Oh the tears of a clown. Hmm





As an aside: Jeff Bezos was named richest man in the world today. No wonder Donald J Trump hates Bezos. Our President can act like such a jealous little mean-girl sometimes. coffee

Liberals should run Bezos for POTUS in 2020
At least Bezos is a real sucessful self-made business man. smile
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#302475 - 07/28/17 01:46 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: pdx rick]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13828
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Liberals should run Bezos for POTUS in 2020

Since we've gotten rid of that silly "conflicts of interest" thing all government purchases would go through Amazon under the Bezos administration.
Just imagine, everything the government wants and needs delivered free in two days(with the government's prime membership)
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#302477 - 07/28/17 02:38 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 233
Loc: Michigan, USA
Though Bezos has many of the characteristics that would serve him well in office, never again should this nation elect an inexperienced governmental leader.
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The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#302478 - 07/28/17 02:39 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: Greger]
Ujest Shurly Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 233
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Liberals should run Bezos for POTUS in 2020

Since we've gotten rid of that silly "conflicts of interest" thing all government purchases would go through Amazon under the Bezos administration.
Just imagine, everything the government wants and needs delivered free in two days(with the government's prime membership)


LOL ROTFMOL Bow
_________________________
Vote 2018

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#302484 - 07/28/17 07:44 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: Ujest Shurly]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7098
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
never again should this nation elect an inexperienced governmental leader


I don't know: Some Generals have worked out pretty well. But they are very used to a complex power structure and know how to operate within it. Most CEOs of a public company would understand that as well.

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#302490 - 07/29/17 02:04 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7098
Loc: North San Diego County
Some are saying that McCain took one for the team with his vote. He saved them all from being replaced or even being assassinated if they threw all those people off their coverage, and he could do it because he is not going to run again. (Or even live much longer.)

Now his Republican colleagues can blame him for not fulfilling their 7 year long promise to kill Obamacare, without fear of being primaried at the next election.

I think there is actually a real chance for a Super Skinny Bill: Send the House a bill that only changes the name of it to RomneyCare, so credit can go to the original author of the program. Nothing else, and no amendments allowed. I suspect enough Democrats would vote for that to make it veto-proof, if Republicans would agree to stop trying to screw it up.

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#302491 - 07/29/17 12:40 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15537
The repeal and replace effort failed dramatically, if not spectacularly (the vote was49-51, after all) in the early morning hours of Friday. But still means the vast majority of Republican lawmakers were willing to vote for policy they knew was bad and many opposed - just to be on the winning side.

Now, of course, there is the opportunity to actually address the real problems. The question is, will they? Or maybe even more important, will they in a timely fashion? There has already been a concerted effort to sabotage the ACA as an excuse to end it: Sabotage Watch: Tracking Efforts to Undermine the ACA - CBPP. HHS Secretary Price has (probably illegally) used HHS resources to produce "23 videos featuring individuals explaining how the ACA has harmed them" rather than using appropriated funds to promote and explain the program.
Quote:
Unable — at least so far — to kill the Affordable Care Act outright, the Trump administration has conducted a sustained war of attrition designed to inflict fatal damage on Obamacare.
Killing Obamacare Softly - NYT (opinion, subscription).

Given the thoroughly dishonest, morally bankrupt party/administration, don't expect these efforts to end anytime soon. Next on Republicans’ Agenda: Sabotaging Obamacare - New Republic. Trump has already telegraphed that intention, naturally via tweet. Given what a historically sore loser (emphasis on loser) Trump is, I expect it will get very bad for Americans.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302493 - 07/29/17 12:55 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: pondering_it_all]
Ujest Shurly Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 233
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Some are saying that McCain took one for the team with his vote.



I do not believe this at all, Senator McCain's vote was a surprise for all

Senator McCain's Vote
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Vote 2018

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#302494 - 07/29/17 02:03 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6211
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
the opportunity to actually address the real problems

i think i should re-emphasize the real problem to finding a solution

CONSERVATIVES DO NOT WANT GOVERNMENT INVOLVED NOR DO THEY BELIEVE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE INVOLVED.

sorry to yell but all questions should be filtered through that lens.

So now the question becomes one of whether Republican leadership will allow alternative plans which include government in their formulation or not. The answer is clearly no.

So what is your question?

An alternative would be for those seeking real solutions to hit the airways with those plans and see if Americans are more interested in real solutions or Republican ideological non-solutions.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#302495 - 07/29/17 03:38 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13828
Loc: Florida
Quote:
CONSERVATIVES DO NOT WANT GOVERNMENT INVOLVED NOR DO THEY BELIEVE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE INVOLVED.


And that's it in a nutshell.

Looking at it over history, government enables capitalism until capitalism runs roughshod over the economy until government is forced to intervene...then it's rinse and repeat.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#302501 - 07/29/17 05:14 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12732
Loc: Whittier, California
Republicans have been trying to pass these ridiculous healthcare bills through a process called budget reconciliation which, among other things, protects the bill from being filibustered in the Senate and only requires a simple majority of 50 votes (rather than 60, which the Republicans don't have).

But the Senate can only consider one budget reconciliation bill per topic per year, which means if the bill dies in committee and never comes to an official vote, it doesn't count.
That's why they've been able to continue bringing motion after motion and bill after bill to the floor, over and over again.

But McCain cast a deciding vote to allow debate and therefore the bill was allowed to come to the Senate floor
Republicans thought for sure that they had the votes.
They figured that Collins, Murkowski and the Democrats would vote no, everyone else would vote yes, and Pence would be the tie-breaker, and BLAMMO straight repeal becomes the new reality.

McCain dropped the bomb on them, a totally calculated move; he voted to allow the bill to come to the floor. Had McCain allowed it to die in committee, McConnell could have come back with yet another repeal bill; but McCain helped make it come to a vote, and now they can't consider another budget reconciliation bill for the rest of the fiscal year.

McConnell will need 60 votes to pass any kind of healthcare reform now.
So now they either admit defeat and maybe make another effort later; that move could damage elections if they try it before the midterms, or risk losing the slim majority they already have if they wait or they actually have to finally sit down with the democrats like adults and write a halfway decent healthcare bill.z

(hat tip to Deb Tezich)

The only problem I now have is, can we expect Republicans to conduct themselves like leaders and statesmen serving the needs of the country, or do we expect them to do what they have been doing since 2009?
September will be here before you know it.
Will they come back and double down, or triple down, on pure sabotage?
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302502 - 07/29/17 05:19 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8631
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
The only problem I now have is, can we expect Republicans to conduct themselves like leaders and statesmen serving the needs of the country, or do expect them to do what they have been doing since 2009?

I can't stop chuckling.... LOL
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#302503 - 07/29/17 05:32 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12732
Loc: Whittier, California
September will be here before you know it.
Will they come back and double down, or triple down, on pure sabotage?
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302505 - 07/29/17 09:10 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40557
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Supposedly the new game plan is bi-partisanship to fix Obamacare. So, that will take some time. Hmm

Seems that Congress will be bypassing our dear President Russian Oligarch money-launderer from now on because he's alienated so many people. smile
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#302538 - 08/01/17 04:15 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40557
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Last night when I was in Portland visiting, the folks where I was staying had MSNBC on and Joy Reid was the host. I never watch MSNBC because I cut the cable cord back in June 2011.

Anywhoo...

Joy had a Congressional guest on not sure if the guest as a R or D, because I was gathering my stuff packed-up to head back to Seattle, but the guest stated that there is some House members (almost evenly split 20/22) who are meeting quietly to Repeal..erm, Replace...erm, Repair ACA smile
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#302567 - 08/05/17 03:59 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7098
Loc: North San Diego County
There are a couple of bipartisan bills in the Senate to let people of 55 buy into Medicare early. There is a bill in the House to let people of 50 do the same. It would certainly save them about 33% over buying an exchange policy and be about equivalent to a Gold-level policy.

This would also go a long way to stabilize the exchanges because all the sick people would flock to it.

The only problem I can see is if they are taking one of the wonder drugs that is very expensive. My old employer policy capped on out-of-pocket expenses at $2500. My new Medicare Plan D has no cap so I pay about $6000 a year.

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