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#302285 - 07/13/17 06:21 AM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6951
Loc: North San Diego County
Like so many other conspiracy theories, climate change denial requires one to believe there is a VAST conspiracy of climate change "pushers" for some reason banding together to destroy the world's economy, all the while keeping it secret they are doing that even though it is all fabricated.

A secret shared among two people is no secret. Shared among thousands? Utterly impossible. That's why belief in it is so ridiculous.

Anybody who truly believes it is faked probably believes several other conspiracy theories. That describes my step-brother perfectly. so I am no stranger to it.
He's a perfectly nice fellow but has a bunch of paranoid fantasies. If you believe in several such theories, maybe you should get some psychiatric help. Some sufferers end up getting in lots of trouble, for example shooting up a pizza parlor.

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#302287 - 07/13/17 09:39 AM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40433
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Some sufferers end up getting in lots of trouble, for example shooting up a pizza parlor.

Especially when said pizza parlor has no basement where the alleged crimes take place. coffee

Trump overwhelmingly leads rivals in support from less educated Americans
PBS.org
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#302289 - 07/13/17 12:00 PM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6184
Loc: Highlands, Tx
See, I told you guys it was pointless. Talking to legitimate scientific climatological critics ... well every climatologist is interested in ways to improve the science.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#302290 - 07/13/17 12:07 PM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6184
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Donna laFramobise - another interesting name, who is she and why is she an important AGW critic?

She "is a Canadian investigative journalist, writer, and photographer."

Wow and Mr Swede found another "scientist" to rebut AGW with another compelling ... o she is not a scientist

I guess eventually there will be a scientist among the list of authorities who has made significant contributions to the science of climatology.

more to come
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#302291 - 07/13/17 12:09 PM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6184
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I always liked this theory. It reminded me of Pinky and the Brain .... scientists from everywhere trying to take over the world

But for some folks it is real
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#302297 - 07/13/17 01:56 PM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8580
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Here is the post that stimulated this topic:
Originally Posted By: bigswede
Say, Logtroll, why is it you state "You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." in every post, yet you are not willing to wait and see if CO2 really is a problem?
My mind is open, what about your's?
You claim "But if the "climate scairdy cats" get their way and we do take corrective action, the benefits will be real and substantive - cleaner air, lower cost living, abundant and clean water, more productive agriculture, avoided displacement of inhabitants of low lying coastal regions, healthy oceans, ..."

But that will not be the case. The outcome of climate action is loss of freedom, monopoly business, economic ruin, a corporatist state and unfortunately ever more pollution (albeit of a different and probably more severe sort).

Can you support your claim above? Here is a sampling of what I see:

"loss of freedom" - one for instance of the reverse this being true is that rooftop solar, under the ownership and control of the building owner, is an increase of freedom in many ways.

"monopoly business" - right now I have to buy power from a private corporation that has been granted monopoly control over our electricity supply, and who is choosing coal as it's preferred energy source, because they get to pass all of the costs along to the ratepayers. In a perverse incentive, they like building generating capacity that costs the most because in their monopoly agreement they get to charge a healthy "profit" on top of their costs.

"a corporatist state" - see above.

"ever more pollution" - I have no idea what you are referring to.

Your turn...
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#302298 - 07/13/17 03:39 PM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15421
Originally Posted By: bigswede
No one has yet shown that anthropogenically added CO2 to atmosphere is a problem. Thus far it's only a hypothesis.
So, is there a problem?
If so, what is the problem?
Will any of the proposed actions cure the imagined problem?
I have to dispute this claim's hypothesis. My evidence would be the stark contrast between the temperature rises historically (and prehistorically) to those that have occurred since the industrial revolution.

The problems are legion, and not hypothetical or imaginary. Climate change: facts versus opinions.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302304 - 07/13/17 07:26 PM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6184
Loc: Highlands, Tx
why would anyone feel compelled to convince a true believer of something they do not believe? by definition it is impossible, and by experience it is more than impossible
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#302305 - 07/13/17 08:09 PM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: logtroll]
bigswede Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/25/16
Posts: 300
I shall say this only once, directed at all of you.

AGW is politics, nothing else. That is why the IPCC reports are compiled in deliberation between politicians and their employed civil servants. Scientists are not welcome.

In history there are numerous examples of rulers wishing for a way to tax the air people breath in. They found no legal way to put a tax on something nature provided without human assistance.

Another thing history shows is that it's very much, almost entirely about energy. When climate was warm, humans did not need to use as much energy to gather food and did not have to gather as much fuel to heat houses. They had time and energy for other activities. Civilizations flourished.
The taming of draught animals and slavery, division of labour, further advanced technology and philosophy until coal, petroleum and other modern energy sources made slavery superfluous and a freedom for all became a possibility. Civilisation may reach new heights.

In 1896 a Swedish scientist, Svante Arrhenius deemed CO2 a greenhouse gas. He was also a founder and board member of the Swedish Eugenics society that later became the first official state run eugenics institution anywhere in the world.

One of Arrhenius' students was Bert Bolin who, together with his close friend Olof Palme (Swedish socialist PM) was instrumental in forming the IPCC after the Stockholm meeting 1972. Bolin became the first chairman of the IPCC.

Around 1970 the EPA scrutinized av variety of gases and air borne matter. Many of them were classified pollutants. But not CO2, which was deemed an inert gas.

In the 1970's there were alarms about a new ice age. But that did not produce incentive for people to save energy.

In 1989 the Norwegian socialist PM, Gro Harlem Brundtland, for the UNFCCC (the mother of IPCC) presented the report Our Common Future, where the dangers of CO2 were first presented to the public.

The Rio summit in 1992 became the official start for AGW. It was politics naming CO2 the culprit before there was a registered crime. Vast amounts of money was funneled into "climate research" looking for the anthropogenic signature to global warming.

Computer modelling was widely used. But none, not a single one of the models have been able to come up with the correct climate development even from known (registered historical) data. This indicates the models are useless to predict future climate.

The hunt for "climate change evidence" usurped more and more of research money. Practically no one is today able to enter the academic world with the aim of questioning AGW. Such a person will lack funding and will not be peer reviewed and not published. Many scholars have witnessed to this "streamlining" of research.

Politicians who do not lock in step will not be promoted by their party.

The easiest person to fool is an academic from another discipline. Just hint that they, with their high education are superior to common people, if they agree with what is proposed. If they don't they are labeled heretics. Deniers, as the current term is, alluding to denial of the Holocaust and denial of facts in general. This is dirty arguing and Scott Pruitt addressed it the other day.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/12/pruitt-climate-hypocrisy-merkel-europe-240479
And I will not debate any further under the topic that calls rational skeptics deniers.

The other group of people necessary to "win" the climate hoax is the lazy uninterested majority. Such majorities always takes the easy path of relying on authority. The UN is as good an authority as any, perhaps even more prestigious than most. When you accept to side with the UN and the lazy majority you effectively resign from reason.

With AGW those who want to control us found a way to tax what we all breath out, because it's a "pollutant". They all talk about Global Governance, a "one world order" and I can almost hear them say one glorious leader. The head of UNFCC, Christiana Figueres has stated that the Climate Change meme is not about the climate, it's about the eradication of capitalism.

Closing with a couple of recent links.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/05/exclus...urce=site-share
http://www.environmentalprogress.org/big-news/2017/6/21/are-we-headed-for-a-solar-waste-crisis
https://www.nationaleconomicseditorial.c...-waste-nuclear/
https://townhall.com/columnists/dennisav...manity-n2335975

Over and out!
_________________________
Cowardly men always plot to label Freedom as anarchy!

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#302306 - 07/13/17 08:25 PM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: bigswede]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8580
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
From your post I can determine that you are scared of climate change science because of a 'fear of government' ideology, and all the conspiracy theories abounding about it.

Science is not your thing.

Thanks.
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"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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