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#302346 - 07/16/17 05:55 PM Greenwald: Donald Trump Jr.'s Emails Are Not A "Smoking Gun" Of Anything; Democr
Golem Offline

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 3685
Loc: Orange County, California, USA
Greenwald: Donald Trump Jr.'s Emails Are Not A "Smoking Gun" Of Anything; Democrats Keep "Moving Goal Posts" For Allegations

Tim Hains
July 14, 2017

DEMOCRACY NOW!: The White House is in crisis mode following revelations that Donald Trumpís own son embraced an apparent effort by the Russian government to peddle information incriminating Hillary Clinton in an attempt to help Trump win the presidency. In a new interview with Reuters, President Trump defended his son and said that he himself did not know about the meeting. We speak with Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Glenn Greenwald, co-founder of The Intercept, who notes that Democrats have had similar entanglements with foreign governments.

"I donít think that this revelation, interesting though it may be, is as significant or a smoking gun when it comes to the impeachment or the prosecution case," Greenwald said about the Donald Trump Jr. emails.

He explained: "To me, it seems as though the people who are moving the goalposts are the Democrats. The claim all along, the reason why thereís talk of impeachment, the reason why there is a special prosecutor, the reason why people want to see Trump and his associates criminally prosecuted, is because of the claim that they committed crimes by colluding with the Russians with regard to the hacking. Thatís what Harry Reid has always said. Thatís what John Podesta has always said. That has always been the Democratic claim."


#302347 - 07/16/17 06:07 PM Re: Greenwald: Donald Trump Jr.'s Emails Are Not A "Smoking Gun" Of Anything; Democr [Re: Golem]
Golem Offline

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 3685
Loc: Orange County, California, USA
I knew Glenn on the Town Hall forum on CompuServe back in the mid-1990s. We chatted once or twice, but I highly doubt that he remembers me. I'm just not that memorable.

He was a libertarian and a gay activist.

I defended him a couple times against the homophobes there.

He sometimes used "Der Wilhelm" as his handle. Wilhelm is the actual first name of the great composer and noted anti-Semite Richard Wagner. Although a Jew, Glenn was a big fan of Wagner's music, which led to consternation from some of his Jewish friends.

#302350 - 07/16/17 10:53 PM Re: Greenwald: Donald Trump Jr.'s Emails Are Not A "Smoking Gun" Of Anything; Democr [Re: Golem]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6371
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I dunno about Greenwald but he certainly was disingenuous about the DNC and Ukraine connection.

The Ukrainians did not hack anyone at any time or anyplace vis a vis Russians hacking the DNC, Podesta, Wikileaks, 21 states voting servers.

The Ukrainians approached an Ukrainian-US citizen who worked for the DNC with information about Manafort (not Trump) which was public and later led to Manafort resigning. Still trying to get a handle on what the Trump connection is/was or how that was designed to sway an election.

Greenwald is again being disingenuous when he says the Dems are moving the goalpost. By that I think he means taking a meeting etc which is not the same as criminal collusion with intent to manipulate an election. The meeting is characterized as an offer of oppo research.

So were the Russians offering dirt out of the goodness of their Siberian Hearts? Was there a quid pro quo? Ostensibly the meeting was about adoptions but buried beneath that is money, a lot of money which had been sanctioned. If this meeting was really about lifting sanctions for dirt on Clinton during a campaign, I suspect we have a criminal act.

But even further where did the Russians get the dirt? Was it legally obtained (can "real" dirt be obtained legally?)? Or was the offer to expose already hacked email servers for lifting sanctions, which would only occur if Mr Trump was elected.

The goalposts have not changed. The goalposts now have some structure and location and for which team they were to be used.
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

#302354 - 07/17/17 04:13 AM Re: Greenwald: Donald Trump Jr.'s Emails Are Not A "Smoking Gun" Of Anything; Democr [Re: Golem]
NW Ponderer Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15921
I'm not a fan of Greenwald. Earlier posts establish that. He was a disingenuous anti-Clinton advocate from the get go. This is no more honest an analysis. I don't know if it is because he is thick, or if he's again being disingenuous. Here is the distinction: Steele was hired to do OPPO research (which, right there tells you that it is a "thing of value", Glenn. Duh!). I don't know of any "campaign finance" lawyer that would say otherwise (unless paid to do so), because case law has already established the point. Since people get paid to do it, it clearly has value.

Now, a legitimate issue could be raised if a foreigner were volunteering information to the campaign, as Greenwald suggests. What Greenwald ignores or elides is that a) it wasn't the Clinton campaign, b) it wasn't the Ukrainian government, c) it was not about the candidate, and d) it wasn't part of an ongoing conspiracy. Did the Clinton Campaign Really Collude With Ukraine? Slate. (Short answer: no)
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

#302360 - 07/17/17 04:45 PM Re: Greenwald: Donald Trump Jr.'s Emails Are Not A "Smoking Gun" Of Anything; Democr [Re: Golem]
pdx rick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40833
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

While Don Jr's email revelations are not a 'smoking gun' into collusion per se, they are revelations into breaking Federal Compaign Law, specifically Section 30121 of Title 52 of federal campaign law, which deals with "contributions and donations by foreign nationals."

Contrarian, extraordinaire


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