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#302231 - 07/12/17 12:05 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6948
Loc: North San Diego County
Shopping around for the best price is nearly impossible anyway: Hospitals all have a Charge Register (or something like it under a different name) which is a list of prices for every service, device, drug, etc. they charge to clients. They guard it fiercely, because it has list prices. These may be 5-10 times what the insurance company negotiates, and are what they would charge the "market shopper" who walks in without insurance. This is the basis of the $5.00 aspirin tablet. (Oh, wait, you had two: That'll be $10 please.)

Just try to get a price out of them. They won't tell you. And even if they gave you a fixed price, you would be charged more for any complications, other specialists, anesthesia, lab tests, etc.

This is all because we do this insane cost-shifting in our system: Insured patients only pay the negotiated price. Medicaid and Medicare patients pay less. And uninsured patients pay through the nose until they are broke and go on Medicaid. And then hospitals get government bailouts or close to make up the difference.

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#302233 - 07/12/17 04:10 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6948
Loc: North San Diego County
A public option plan could actually deliver everything Trump promised: Coverage for everybody, lower premiums, no pre-existing exclusions, and no caps.

It would cost 15% less than whatever insurance companies are charging for exchange policies now, since the overhead would drop from ACA's 20% to Medicare's 5%. The very same insurance companies now process claims for non-exchange employer policies, ACA policies, and Medicare. It would actually get simpler with more people on a single public option with no exclusions because the companies would not need all those employees trying to deny claims. (That's not cheap!)

You would need to bite the bullet and say everybody not covered by another ACA-compliant policy had to have it. No more mandate, just a law: No insurance means no treatment. (I really don't mind that the AHCA has stricter coverage start rules than ACA.) Starting up coverage can have much higher copays for the first year, just to encourage people not to wait until they get sick.

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#302342 - 07/16/17 12:36 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8580
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
A conservative case for single-payer

Quote:
The GOP's latest health-care push is a magic show featuring the same malnourished rabbit being pulled from the same shabby top hat Republicans have been reaching their fingers into for years before pronouncing their now-familiar incantations.

Abracadabra! they always say. Allowing companies to sell insurance across state lines! Alakazam! Block-granting — is there an uglier formulation in the English language? — Medicare to the states! Presto-chango! Medical malpractice reform! Hocus-pocus! Health savings accounts! And for my last trick, keeping the expansion of Medicaid but not paying for it!

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"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#302343 - 07/16/17 01:39 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6184
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Unfortuinately for several reasons your guy was not convincing for anyone but those who are already convinced.

Ideologically it would never convince Sen Cruz that government involvement in health care can not necessarily be a good thing but can be a reasonable thing.

Where is the score? It makes sense in every kind of way but until there are numbers which tell people what the cost is, it won't make any head way.

Anyone seen a score on 1-payer?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#302344 - 07/16/17 03:26 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: rporter314]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8580
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Someone needs to work on a plan so it can be scored.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#302345 - 07/16/17 03:38 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15417
Yes. Although some of these number are now mostly old, the issue was analyzed in the 1990s, and after. Today's numbers would be different, in part because they are compared to the ACA. CBO Analysis: How Much Would Single Payer Cost? (updatex2)
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302348 - 07/16/17 08:46 PM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6948
Loc: North San Diego County
All of the studies basically come down to the 30% or so "overhead" insurance companies were getting before ACA. That is the percentage of premiums not spent on actual health care. Insurance companies throw a lot of stuff into that overhead. A big chunk of it used to pay for all the people who used to work for them trying to deny claims. They don't do that under ACA, but they would with the Republican plans.

Now ACA limits them to 20% overhead. (Blue Shield of California actually sent me a check a few years ago because they had to get down to 20%.) But all of these same insurance companies process Medicare claims at 5% overhead, and apparently they are not running into profitability problems doing that because they keep on sending me elaborate solicitation information packets to get me to switch to their Medicare Advantage plan.

A single-payer plan could be like Medicare-for-all, with the 5% overhead. So right there is a 15% savings. Of course, the maximum overhead could be anything Congress wants to write into law. They could put it back to 30% and then claim single-payer is more expensive than ACA. I'm just saying that the insurance companies are not going broke at Medicare's 5%.

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#302355 - 07/17/17 04:21 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15417
NYT headline: McCain’s Surgery Will Delay Senate Votes on Healthcare Bill. Can you get more hypocritically ironic than that? The vote to take away Healthcare from millions is delayed so a Senator can get free surgery on the government dime? Optics? Shame? Anyone?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302356 - 07/17/17 04:56 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40433
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
NYT headline: McCain’s Surgery Will Delay Senate Votes on Healthcare Bill. Can you get more hypocritically ironic than that? The vote to take away Healthcare from millions is delayed so a Senator can get free surgery on the government dime? Optics? Shame? Anyone?

I'm surprised McConnell didn't blame 'The Dems' like he did last time... coffee

...when it was really the Freedumb Cuckolds that held up the vote. Hmm
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#302365 - 07/18/17 08:40 AM Re: Public Option is the ONLY Option [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40433
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

McConnell Announces a Vote on Obamacare Repeal with 2-Year Delay After Current Bill Falters


The GOP owns three branches of government, and they can't even come-up with legislation. All the GOP does is sit around with their thumb up their ass collecting a government paycheck. mad
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