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#302239 - 07/12/17 01:03 PM What are the climate change deniers scared of?
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8773
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
It's pretty clear what the climate change skairdy-cats are afraid of - global environmental collapse.

But what are the deniers afraid of, that makes them so belligerently resistant to taking any action that can be construed as responsive to stopping or reversing climate change?
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"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#302249 - 07/12/17 03:12 PM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: logtroll]
Ujest Shurly Offline
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Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 281
Loc: Michigan, USA
A loss of profits?
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Vote 2018

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The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

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#302255 - 07/12/17 05:04 PM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: logtroll]
bigswede Offline
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Registered: 03/25/16
Posts: 323
I wouldn't know, since I don't know any climate deniers. I've only heard of them when climate threat advocates raise their straw men.
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#302269 - 07/12/17 06:12 PM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6371
Loc: Highlands, Tx
if there is an in depth discussion it becomes apparent, deniers are ideologically intractable conservatives who fear the impact of global responsibility of US corporations, or in other words, they fear there will be an impact to the bottom line.

I have numerous times posed the question, suppose it cost nothing or even made money to increase greenhouse gas abatement projects, would conservatives be against it? Not so surprisingly, they do not answer, because it exposes their true nature.

E eq M C sq

it is not political .... it is science

AGW

it is not political .... it is science
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#302272 - 07/12/17 06:34 PM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: rporter314]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40833
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: rporter314
...deniers are ideologically intractable conservatives who fear...

You...don't...say, rporter. smile , coffee

Conservatives Big on Fear, Brain Study Finds
Psychology Today


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#302275 - 07/12/17 07:26 PM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7503
Loc: North San Diego County
It really comes down to money. Up until this century, businesses have made money by externalizing costs. They can't get away with polluting the land anymore: Pit miners have to cover their pits with soil and plant trees. Loggers have to replant instead of leaving vast areas of devastation behind.

Until very recently, companies could dump anything they liked into the oceans, lakes, rivers, etc. The EPA fixed that, but now Trump is trying to undo that.

The atmosphere is the last refuge of corporate externalization. They pollute the air and we all breath it, and we all are exposed to the dangers. Because that's how their business model works. Sometimes the business model doesn't work if they can't externalize. (And that's what conservatives fear.)

For example, burning coal. Anything you do to turn the resulting CO2 back into carbon and sequester it, eats up all the gain you made from burning the coal. In fact, the Second Law of Thermodynamics says the entire process will be a loss. Maybe that's why coal sells for $30 a ton and clean dirt sells for $60 a ton! Coal is not an asset, it is a liability, cheaper than dirt and that is why coal mining jobs are never coming back. Not because coal prices are too low, but rather because it doesn't work if you can't leave great ash piles everywhere and CO2 in the air.

Make no mistake about it, burning natural gas has the same model, just much less ash. That's why natural gas is only a temporary fix, and not a very good one.

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#302276 - 07/12/17 07:30 PM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40833
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
It really comes down to money.

It's about money for the cheap and chintzy money-grubbing CONservative climate deniers?
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#302281 - 07/13/17 02:36 AM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7503
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
cheap and chintzy money-grubbing CONservative climate deniers


Well, also for economists concerned only with the short-term effects of not shitting where you eat. Because that's really what this is.

"I like to drop a deuce on the dinner table, because then I don't have to go all the way into the bathroom. I've been doing it for a long time, and all my friends do it too, therefore I should be able to continue."

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#302282 - 07/13/17 02:54 AM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8773
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Well, also for economists concerned only with the short-term effects of not shitting where you eat. Because that's really what this is.

"I like to drop a deuce on the dinner table, because then I don't have to go all the way into the bathroom. I've been doing it for a long time, and all my friends do it too, therefore I should be able to continue."

That seems to cut very close to the bone, imo.
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"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#302284 - 07/13/17 04:02 AM Re: What are the climate change deniers scared of? [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15921
bigswede, my friend, you are a climate change denier - the proof is in the discussion. You prefer to cast the majority climate scientists - who actually study the science - as charlatans and claim that those who disagree are creating straw men.

I appreciate not wanting to be labeled, but what you are doing is dressing up denial literature as if it were valid science. If you follow the science of it, you can discern the junk, but you have a preferred outcome, so only conforming "science" is valid - the other is "junk". Take, for example, the long discredited claim that data was "faked". It wasn't. If you'd followed the actual analysis, and discussion of the data,
you'd find that. But, as is apparent, you prefer a different result, so that's what you see. It's called confirmation bias. The problem with confirmation bias is that it is difficult to see from within its bubble.
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