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#302467 - 07/27/17 09:10 PM Healthcare and Healthcare stats
jgw Offline

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1954
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
There remains 2 things that nobody seems to talk about, on either side.

The first is what the right call the Healthcare Market. This infers that there is a competitive market, in the healthcare industry. This is what the Republicans base their entire arugment on against Obamacare, ie. if we didn't have all them bad regulations and mandates, which force the healthcare industry to not compete, were removed (including the ACA), the healthcare would actually start competing.

The other is that the entire rest of the world, which provides healthcare for their citizens, are, according to our 'leaders', doing it all wrong. They actually control the costs of healthcare, from the drugs to the care itself. I keep watching this stuff on TV and nobody ever mentions any of this. This is also, for instance, why one can goto Canada and buy drugs for less than half what they cost in America, even though they are manufactured by, exactly, the same companies that sell those same drugs in America. The really strange thing is that the drug companies themselves, seem to be able to make money at those prices. In America we not only do not control those costs but have actually passed laws that make it illegal to buy your drugs in Canada and another law that denies our own government from dickering with the drug companies.

In countries that do provide health care, like Canada, they consider healthcare to be a social service that citizens have a right to. In other words healthcare is NOT a for profit industry but a social service paid for through taxes. For those who believe that people in Canada hate their healthcare I would suggest you go up there and ask if they would rather have our system. They don't even bother to say anything, they just laugh and walk away. (the laugh, I believe, is AT us - they think we are crazy in this regard).

In other words our elected class seems to be a whole not more interested in the welfare of insurance companies (just another ongoing middleman that adds costs and little else), and all the rest of the healthcare industry (we are told it eats up almost 18% of our GDP!). Our healthcare costs are the 3rd highest in the entire world!
(nationmaster is a great place for verified stats)
our life expectancy is 49th in the world.

Basically, the United States of America has the 3rd largest healthcare in the world but we live shorter lives that 48 other nations. You can goto nationmaster and check it out. ALL of our healthcare stats are bad, ie. we are getting royally screwed by our own elected and, as far as I am concerned our political parties as well. This stuff did not happen under the right or left it happened no matter who was in charge and continues today. If you pay attention to this stuff you will also note that NOBODY calls the right on their "healthcare market" even though they base their own argument on that one. NOBODY mentions that everybody else controls their healthcare costs - its just not mentioned. If there was ever a question about the American electorate having the ability to vote in their own best interest I would humbly suggest that healthcare is not, exactly, a glowing example of the American electorate at its very best.

Please note, this was just about healthcare. I have yet to see anything on education and I might post something about that one. A couple basic facts, however. The rest of the world teaches their children all year long. Here we have summer off, Christmas vacation, Easter vacation, teacher meetings, etc. which will add approximately another month to the 3 lost in the summer. All this and we can't figure out how the rest of the world does better. One can only wonder if our wealth and pride have turned off our minds.

Basically, I think, we tend to belong to the "Bend Over Red Rover" wishful thinking club.

Since there are a number of sites in this one I am sticking it the member suggested sites place.

Edited by jgw (07/27/17 09:13 PM)

#302468 - 07/27/17 11:03 PM Re: Healthcare and Healthcare stats [Re: jgw]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6414
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I think I will argue HC is not a right. For me the notion of "right" suggests something inalienable and descended from the moment certain animals took their first breath to become humans. Thus I believe there is only one "right" and that is the biological imperative for the animal in each of us to survive. The"rights" of the BoR's is what the Founders believed should be rights, but as in every case, it is in some manner bestowed by government. In our case, we both created a government and we granted ourselves rights.

HC for me in in another category. The Founders created a government which was not just to provide defense against enemies but to provide services for its citizenry i.e. "provide for the general welfare". I ask, what could possibly be more imbued with the general welfare than public HC? For this reason I see it as a service which government should provide its citizens.

The free market can not find a solution (for low cost and complete coverage) because the free market is not mandated to provide HC to anyone. There is only one plan which meets the many criteria essential for quality HC and it is single payer (or one of its variations).

Whether you are Bezos or the local homeless person, HC should be provided equally, as the government has the obligation to provide for the general welfare.
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

#302470 - 07/28/17 02:11 AM Re: Healthcare and Healthcare stats [Re: rporter314]
logtroll Offline

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8799
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
You obviously don't have enough irrational hatred for the government to be able to appreciate why it should do nothing for the citizens.
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll


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