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sex assaults
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Gun Control
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11/23/17 01:02 PM
the democratic plan to win
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11/20/17 07:10 PM
Trump held his first VA listening session without veterans advocates
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Donald Trump Jr.'s Elephant Tail
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11/19/17 08:22 PM
Reign of Idiots
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Is keystone xl dead?
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11/19/17 06:05 AM
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#302562 - 08/04/17 10:02 PM Nazism versus Communism
Golem Offline
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Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 3638
Loc: Orange County, California, USA

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#302570 - 08/05/17 12:02 PM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: Golem]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15537
Cute, but like most things on twitter, inaccurate.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302580 - 08/05/17 06:20 PM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: Golem]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7103
Loc: North San Diego County
Well, Hitler was terrific on patriotism and he loved children and small dogs. He was just trying to Make Germany Great Again. If not for the racism and homophobia, and the tendency to invade other countries, he could have lead Germany successfully for the rest of his life.

He like campaign rallies, too. Also people who told him he was great.

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#302581 - 08/05/17 06:35 PM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: Golem]
Golem Offline
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Posts: 3638
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#302584 - 08/05/17 09:44 PM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: Golem]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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No, not really. To Godwin someone, you have to compare them to bad, bad Hitler. I praised Hitler for his potential and did not compare him to anybody.

Anyway, the thread topic is fascism and communism. I don't think you can call "godwin" on somebody for mentioning Hitler in a fascism thread.

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#302596 - 08/06/17 05:47 PM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: Golem]
pdx rick Offline
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The CONservatives that I deal with think that Fascism and Communism are on the same side on the political spectrum. You've probably guessed by now, they think Fascism is "Leftwing" as well. LOL

...as well as Nazism because of the word "Socialism" in the Nazi title. dunce
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#302603 - 08/06/17 09:57 PM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: Golem]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Well, they both DO put the interests of The State above the interests of the individual. The biggest differences in the pure theories of government is that Nazis cooperate with big business closely, while Communists have the government own and operate all businesses.

The individual is screwed either way. In the Communist system you have to be a Party member and government functionary to do well. In the Nazi system you could be that or you could be one of those business CEOs that cooperate closely with the government.

Communist governments pay some lip service to everyone being equal, having the same rights and duty to the state, etc. but there has not been one yet that wasn't corrupt. Some of the animals are always more equal than the others. Usually a LOT more equal.

From the point of view of the common man, they are both authoritarian. From the point of view of economists, they are both doomed to fail because they try to control an impossible number of economic decisions.

But don't confuse Nazism with Fascism. There have been lots of Fascist governments that didn't murder the Jews, didn't invade neighbors, etc. They are called Military Dictatorships and a few have been pretty benevolent to their citizens.

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#302608 - 08/07/17 04:46 AM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: Golem]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15537
I'm waiting for the list of "good" fascists...
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302611 - 08/07/17 08:40 AM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: Golem]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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I wouldn't say "good", but not Nazi-class. I'm thinking of military governments that eventually hold elections. It has actually happened, just like Monarchies have been pretty good at times.

Hey, we are supposed to be a Constitutional Republic but we still interred all those Japanese-Americans and stole all their property. My wife's grandfather died in FBI custody for the crime of being a newspaper publisher in Hawaii. Not a lot of respect for individual rights.

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#302614 - 08/07/17 04:20 PM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: Golem]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
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I'll Grant that there are degrees of everything, including evil. There have been relatively progressive - and even progressive - monarchies and juntas. Strongmen can be good for the right reasons. More often though, power corrupts.

Authoritarians come in different flavors, but it's usually the people that suffer. I'm trying to learn to distinguish between Putin and Trump in that vein. It's as difficult as distinguishing between Stalin and Hitler. Trump just doesn't have Putin's tools.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#302615 - 08/07/17 06:03 PM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: Golem]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6212
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Mr Trump considers himself savior of America.

Christians have been waiting over 2000 years for the second coming.

Will we have to wait as long for Mr Trump to save us and make America great ... again?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#302618 - 08/07/17 08:23 PM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: rporter314]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7103
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Christians have been waiting over 2000 years for the second coming.


It's funny that only Christians will follow the Anti-Christ.

The rest of us just think he's an azzhole.

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#302625 - 08/09/17 01:12 AM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: rporter314]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12744
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Mr Trump considers himself savior of America.

Christians have been waiting over 2000 years for the second coming.

Will we have to wait as long for Mr Trump to save us and make America great ... again?


The truth about Trump's importance can be found in the sermons of the Dominionists. They wax reverent about scenarios of America brought to her knees, at which point the American people are begging for a savior.
At that point they come marching in on their white steeds and install theocracy, and a GODLY government is theirs at last.
There is a role that Dominionists feel entitled to play, that of the "great transfer of wealth from the wicked to the righteous".
You see, God shows favor to wealthy people and according to Dominionists, the poor are only that way because they are lazy, and wicked. Therefore one NEVER EVER GIVES anything to the wicked.
God commands one to take FROM the wicked.

The Dominionists believe that "God's bankers" will assist them in the great transfer of wealth just as long as they do their part in HELPING bring America to her knees.
Now do you see why they view Trump as being so important?
He is the tool SENT BY GOD TO destroy America and bring her to her knees.
Once that is accomplished, "Pastor President Pence" will ascend to the godly throne.
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302657 - 08/11/17 11:28 PM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: Golem]
matthew Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 319
"
It is interesting that most people, EVEN NOW, cannot perceive that the USA is an oligarchic, fascist state.
.
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No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of Americans

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#302658 - 08/12/17 03:52 PM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: matthew]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13828
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: matthew
"
It is interesting that most people, EVEN NOW, cannot perceive that the USA is an oligarchic, fascist state.
.


I dunno, mathew, while there are certainly oligarchic and fascist overtones with a good deal of nationalism and authoritarianism thrown in for good measure (particularly in the Republican party) I believe that Corporatism is the largest issue we face as a nation today.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#302659 - 08/12/17 09:00 PM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: Golem]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12744
Loc: Whittier, California
So now Nazis are using vehicles to kill their opponents.
One counterprotester dead in Charlottesville, VA as of this morning.

Just face the facts, people.
Half of this country is literally BEGGING for authoritarian theocratic fascism.
That's just a plain fact now, it's staring us right in the face.
Theocracy is a form of government in which a deity is the source from which all authority derives. The Oxford English Dictionary has this definition:
"a system of government in which priests rule in the name of God or a god."
Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce.
And the rest of us are so busy infighting over minutae that we are on the verge of losing democracy itself, because we will fail to rescue it and rescue the institutions from which it derives ITS strength and ITS authority.
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302689 - 08/14/17 01:22 PM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15537
I think you exaggerate, Jeff. It's about a third of the country that wants authoritarianism. About a fifth just vote Republican because they don't want to think about it. Even the Nazi party didn't have that level of support, and look what they managed!
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#302690 - 08/14/17 01:40 PM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15537
God, does this sound familiar?:
Quote:
In March 1932 Hitler ran for President against the incumbent President Paul von Hindenburg, polling 30.1% in the first round and 36.8% in the second against Hindenburg's 49 and 53%. By now the SA had 400,000 members, and its running street battles with the SPD and Communist paramilitaries (who also fought each other) reduced some German cities to combat zones. Paradoxically, although the Nazis were among the main instigators of this disorder, part of Hitler's appeal to a frightened and demoralised middle class was his promise to restore law and order. Overt antisemitism was played down in official Nazi rhetoric, but was never far from the surface. Germans voted for Hitler primarily because of his promises to revive the economy (by unspecified means), to restore German greatness and overturn the Treaty of Versailles, and to save Germany from communism.
(Wikipedia)
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#302704 - 08/15/17 01:01 AM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12744
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I think you exaggerate, Jeff. It's about a third of the country that wants authoritarianism. About a fifth just vote Republican because they don't want to think about it. Even the Nazi party didn't have that level of support, and look what they managed!


Okay, if you say so:

KKK supports Trump - Trumpers approve
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302709 - 08/15/17 05:05 AM Re: Nazism versus Communism [Re: Golem]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12744
Loc: Whittier, California
Eric Trump Gets "Adolf Hickler" Haircut

Quote:
The haircut is identical to the one sported by American neo-Nazi, Richard Spencer (picture below), and very similar to the one that Adolf Hitler himself wore during his racist reign of death in Germany in the 1930s and 1940's.


_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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