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#302537 - 08/01/17 04:11 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40433
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


This page 28 has lots of very informative information. Thanks guys for your contributions and insights. smile
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#302545 - 08/02/17 03:39 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12612
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I think this explains exactly why Putin wanted to get Trump elected so badly. He had run-ins with Clinton when she was Secretary of State and if she became President it could mean real trouble for him.

He and his buddies are heavily invested in US assets that could be seized and he remains in power because he protects so many Russian oligarchs from such seizures and sanctions. If some of these rich guys turn on him, he could wind up dead shortly. Along those lines, I won't be too surprised if Trump isn't assassinated now that he can't protect Putin. Or maybe Russia will just leak whatever it has on him.


I have been saying all along that you don't piss off Putin and stay alive very long. His body count is absurdly high, and he has the ways, means and resources to reach out to almost anyone on the planet, particularly a globe trotting billionaire who routinely tosses off standard operating procedure with regards to op sec and exec sec.
Almost all of his communications are unsecured, a twelve year old could track his physical location at any given time in ten minutes.

And our intel community is certain that the Kremlin has had eyes and ears in the White House since the Inauguration.

Donald Trump has "disappointed" the richest mobster on the planet, who just happens to also be a deadly former KGB agent and leader of the Russian Republic.

It might not be as easy for Putin to dispense with the orange "stone in his shoe" as it was for his other targets but believe me, now that it's clear that he will not be getting the BIG FAVORS from the President that he expected, his team is working on it.

I'm not advocating it, I am not going to cheer for it and I am not suggesting it, but I am predicting it, for the simple reason that our chief executive has his ass hanging way out in the breeze and doesn't seem the least bit concerned about how vulnerable he is.

He still thinks he is untouchable.
The whole scenario is playing out like the movie "Casino" only Trump thinks he's Ace Rothstein, when in reality he's acting like Nicky Santoro.


_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302548 - 08/03/17 12:29 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15421
The best way to understand Trump's Russia/Putin behavior is applying Occam's razor. As has been observed by many, Trump's behavior regarding Putin has been unusual. Trump has demonstrated regularly that he holds no loyalty to anyone else when they are no longer useful to him, yet his loyalty to Putin persists. The consensus conclusion is that Putin has something on Trump.

The question then becomes, what? Again, Occam's razor provides a solution. Trump, in the 90's suffered financial disaster from his gross mismanagement. As a result, American banks wouldn't lend to him. At the same, Russian mobsters and oligarchs were looking for money laundering opportunities. Trump's organization got a remarkable infusion of unexplained cash-based purchases from Russian sources. In 2000 Putin gained control of the Russian government. By all accounts he has maintained control through bribing and rewarding oligarchs and eliminating enemies. He views the United States as his primary enemy.

My conclusion is that Trump is a useful idiot in Putin's plans. It is what makes the most sense (simplest solution). Trump's candidacy was a win-win for Putin. He damaged Clinton, even if Trump lost, and Trump winning causes more discord and hamstrings the government. Even if Trump is damaged because of his association with Putin, his ineffectiveness is beneficial. An ineffectual President means an ineffective adversary. As a bonus, both Trump and his brood are so manipulable, chaos is virtually guaranteed. He can (and has) compromised them at will. Don Junior and Jared Kushner were both easily baited into compromising meetings. Ditto Ivanka. The President's NATO hostility and overt sucking up are fringe benefits.
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#302551 - 08/03/17 08:21 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40433
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

I agree for the most part of the analysis of Trump's finances. We know that every start-up Trump has even done has failed. We know that Russian Oligarchs paid way over asking price for units in Trump's real estate properties. We know that Trump doesn't own many of his properties and is merely a partner. We know that many buildings with the Trump name on them are not even owned by Trump, but by Russian "businessmen."
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#302552 - 08/03/17 03:56 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Ujest Shurly Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 222
Loc: Michigan, USA
Ergo, President Donald (a Russian puppet) Trump is a puppet of the Russians.
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The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

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#302553 - 08/03/17 11:44 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6952
Loc: North San Diego County
Bob Mueller has a Grand Jury empanelled and is issuing subpoenas. You don't do that until you are pretty sure somebody is going to jail. Witness testimony is secret, but eventually you get to indictments and those are public.

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#302554 - 08/04/17 12:04 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Ujest Shurly Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 222
Loc: Michigan, USA
As soon an indictment comes down for one of his sons President Donald (What can I do with Presidential Pardon Powers) Trump will give the indictee(s) a pardon. Nothing will be done about it, unless an indictment is returned to The House of Representatives on President Donald (I am not under investigation) Trump, we can only hope...
_________________________
Vote 2018

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#302555 - 08/04/17 01:19 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12612
Loc: Whittier, California
The trick is, we mustn't pin our hopes on any of these Mueller probes as being a quick fix for Trump being in office. Much as many would like for them to be that, the process will take as long as it takes, by necessity and by necessity it could take a very long time.
I've come to the conclusion that the single biggest motive force that would drive Trump, and even Pence, from office is RATINGS.
Yes, that's right...just like TV and radio, RATINGS is possibly the single biggest factor in removing the cancer, because if approval ratings for this administration, AND approval ratings for Republicans in general, dip to single digits or even close to it, Congress will abandon these two faster than The Plague, and they will lose both their power base IN Congress AND their mandate to lead the country.
So, an undeniable hemorrhage in approval will most likely be the one thing that might trigger possible impeachment and/or a 25th Amendment push to drive Trump from the Oval Office.
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302556 - 08/04/17 01:25 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Ujest Shurly]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6952
Loc: North San Diego County
This very thing was foreseen by one of the founding fathers at the time the Constitution was written. He said that the President pardoning somebody would make that person an "unexceptional witness". He didn't mean "average". He meant that the pardoned person could be compelled to testify because he was in no jeopardy of incriminating himself. So he can't refuse to testify by claiming the Fifth Amendment.

In the case of Grand Jury witnesses, the pardoned person refusing to testify could be held in contempt and jailed as long as the Grand Jury exists. And that could be a VERY long time! Years even. And Presidential pardons have no effect on contempt charges.

So a President who pardons people who can testify against him is making a huge mistake. I'm sure Trump's lawyers have explained this to him. That's probably why he asked about pardoning himself. (Maybe he could, for actual crimes, but it says right in the Constitution you can't pardon impeachable High Crimes.)

The Presidential pardon is only useful to Trump on his way out the door. He can perhaps make a deal, so he resigns and pardons his immediate family members. Then he gets a pardon from President Pence, Nixon-style.

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#302568 - 08/05/17 05:12 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6952
Loc: North San Diego County
It's a LOT worse than you think:

HOW RUSSIA IS USING LINKEDIN AS A TOOL OF WAR AGAINST ITS U.S. ENEMIES

Fairly long NewsWeek story that is worth reading.

I bet you thought the Cold War was over and we could all be friends now. But Putin's KGB-equivalent is still up to it's old tricks. Still using compromat, still using blackmail, still paying people to act as agents, even still poisoning people with polonium or sticking them with umbrellas to silence critics. But now they also have the internet! I think maybe we need the House Unamerican Activities Committee back. It's really getting bad, and Trump is just one of many Russian irons in the fire.

Maybe it's time to bring up internet death again.

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