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#302496 - 07/29/17 03:42 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13772
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I can't speak to the analysis except to say the article is typical of many which characterize Trump supporters as just plain ignorant.

If it walks like a duck...
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#302525 - 08/01/17 01:20 AM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15370
I don't think ANY of the Trump clan realized how exposed they would be by the presidential run (or that Don Senior might win). What has been most exposed is how avaricious they are, and how collectively stupid they are. I think if you added up their IQs, you might get an average IQ. Putin has gotten everything he wants.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302527 - 08/01/17 02:29 AM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6166
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Even now in what appears to be a complete repudiation by Putin for expulsion of US diplomats, I suspect there may be plans within plans. Note Mr Trump has not as yet signed the sanctions bill. This may offer him some cover should he decide not to sign it and provide what may appear as a legitimate reason not to sign it. This may force Congress to reconsider.

Or it could be the whole thing is meant to provide a variety of avenues for speculation leading nowhere.
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#302528 - 08/01/17 04:07 AM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6834
Loc: North San Diego County
The voting was nearly unanimous in Congress. Way beyond veto-proof. All Trump can do is to wait the full 10 days, then it's law.

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#302529 - 08/01/17 05:02 AM Re: Trump Forum [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15370
I think Putin's game is pretty straightforward. He's giving Trump a "bargaining chip" wink wink, nudge nudge, that he can "use" so Trump can give Putin what he wants and he doesn't have to "give up" anything of substance. The compounds they "took" are relatively unimportant, and most of the "staff" are Russians.
Quote:
Altogether, the U.S. government employs more than an estimated 1,200 people in Russia. The majority are hired by the State Department, charged with running the U.S. Embassy and consulates, processing visas and handling other diplomatic tasks. But it also includes employees of dozens of governmental agencies and departments, like the Defense Department, the Agriculture Department, NASA and even the Library of Congress. Collectively, this vast enterprise is often referred to as U.S. Mission Russia or just Mission Russia.
....
The majority of U.S. Mission Russia employees are not Americans and won't be expelled: Of 1,200 people employed in 2013 in Mission Russia, 333 were U.S. citizens and 867 were designated “Foreign National Staff,” most of them probably Russian nationals. Using the 2013 numbers, if Mission Russia is forced to let go of 755 people, a majority of them would not be U.S. citizens and probably would not be expelled from the country.
(WaPo).

Putin is as easy to understand as Trump.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302531 - 08/01/17 09:38 AM Re: Trump Forum [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6834
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
What has been most exposed is how avaricious they are, and how collectively stupid they are. I think if you added up their IQs, you might get an average IQ. Putin has gotten everything he wants.


A great deal of the value of the Trump "brand" is going to be destroyed after he leaves office. Any deal he ever made depended on the participants victims not knowing exactly what he did to past victims. A conman can't operate if everybody knows what he is doing.

But no, Putin has not gotten what he desires most of all: The Magnitsky Act sanctions lifted. This act could be applied to Putin, who keeps most of his vast wealth invested in the West, and destroy his ability to protect his cronies who do the same. That threatens both his wealth and his political power.

Trump made some moves toward this end in the beginning of his term, but now his hands are tied by Congress.

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#302532 - 08/01/17 10:25 AM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6166
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I am not expert on this. The Sanctions Bill was passed on Thursday July 27. Both chambers will be in recess starting July 31. Can he use the pocket veto in this case?

It would give him some time to devise a more amenable result for Putin and undercut Congress. (I mean who needs a congress when one is king of America?)
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#302533 - 08/01/17 10:34 AM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6166
Loc: Highlands, Tx
this flashed across my mind.

Mr Trump may have created an out for himself. Allegedly he wrote Jr's first lie about Russian meeting which would place him under investigation. He may want to claim because he is the greatest president ever Mueller is out to get him but before he can he would resign thus ending any probe into himself and his family.

I think a narcissist would go for that or something like that? it would preserve his in his mind his own image as the greatest president.

maybe wishful thinking
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#302536 - 08/01/17 04:04 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40367
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
The voting was nearly unanimous in Congress. Way beyond veto-proof. All Trump can do is to wait the full 10 days, then it's law.

What...a...coward. Hmm
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#302539 - 08/01/17 06:33 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: rporter314]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6834
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Can he use the pocket veto in this case?


He could, just like he could fire Sessions and make a quick recess appointment. But I think the pocket veto and recess appointments are dead, thanks to a little trick the Republicans thought up to prevent Obama from using them. They just keep a few members in DC and convene Congress for a few minutes every weekday, so it never officially recesses. Republican leaders already told Trump he can't pull the Sessions trick because they plan to do that. That will eliminate pocket vetos too.

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