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#302569 - 08/05/17 12:00 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15572
What we really have is a confluence of interests between the Kremlin and certain segments of the GOP. Both seek to cripple the American government. Trump is just the most obvious.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

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#302629 - 08/09/17 02:55 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6235
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I was listening to a news outlet and the reporters were all essentially saying Mr Trump has some grand plan regarding Korea.

When will these folks get it. Mr Trump is a narcissist. When he says he will reign "fire and fury" on Korea he is simply exerting his belief he is all powerful, in charge of the largest arsenal on the planet, etc, and therefore making him appear to be greater than the crazy guy in Korea.

There is no grand plan to some how suggest China should do something by him using off the cuff remarks as military policy. It was nothing more than the usual narcissistic babble to make himself appear to be God-like.

Allow me the hannity .... geeeeez
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#302634 - 08/09/17 04:41 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
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No wonder Trump is so nervous...FBI raided Manafort home as part of Russia probe - CNN.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302637 - 08/09/17 07:44 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
No wonder Trump is so nervous...FBI raided Manafort home as part of Russia probe - CNN.

FBI to Manfort: Knock knock, Motherfvcker!!! laugh
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#302638 - 08/09/17 07:48 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Oh!! gobsmacked CNN says it was a 'no-knock warrant.'


UPDATE: FBI to Manfort: Bam Bam, Motherfvcker!!! smile
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#302641 - 08/10/17 12:53 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Not that Manafort actually HAD anything incriminating left in his house: He was smart enough to know somebody was coming long ago, and dump it all.

But it's a very good chilling example for everybody else in the Trump administration. Make your deal NOW with Mueller and maybe you won't go to prison. Mueller and team have many years of expert prosecutor experience. Even an experienced lawyer-turned-politician would be very afraid of them. Trump is a poor babe in the woods, in this case. He has no idea just how screwed he is, or he would be vacationing in Argentina.

Or maybe Moscow. I hear Snowden's apartment building has a vacancy.

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#302647 - 08/10/17 09:41 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40652
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Not that Manafort actually HAD anything incriminating left in his house: He was smart enough to know somebody was coming long ago, and dump it all.

My thinking is that the raid occurred early morning the day ofter Manafort's July Congressional Hearing. Perhaps Mueller was looking for communications between Manafort and Trump from the time that Manafort got home to the time of the raid. Hmm
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#302648 - 08/10/17 04:26 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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I think we are underestimating Manafort's hubris. He's been an untouchable Washington insider for decades. He assumes the "normal" process- some vague testimony, subpoenas for documents that he and his lawyers can partially and misleadingly respond to, and the short attention span of Congress... "this'll be over in months." He needed to "preserve" records... so that he could "respond" - and he didn't want them where he couldn't control them.

There are many reasons (tactical and legal) that a prosecutor would prefer a search warrant to a subpoena: no time to react, it doesn't "telegraph" what your legal theory is, it intimidates - and a big one here - it preserves records from claims of "taint". Since the records were obtained independent of Manafort's testimony it can't be claimed that they were "fruit of the poisonous tree" - learned about because of congressional testimony (remember Iran-contra and Oliver North's appeal). Moreover, it could be a precursor to a perjury charge.

I think the significance is that a warrant requires a higher burden - a probable-cause belief a specific crime has been committed, that evidence of the crime will be found at that location, and specificity about what they are looking for - all approved by an impartial judge. Manafort can now be squeezed hard.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#302650 - 08/10/17 10:10 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7149
Loc: North San Diego County
A search warrant probably means they had his phones tapped as well during that post-testimony period. So anything he conveyed by phone to anybody is known and legal evidence.

It's rather fortunate that Congress did not want to hear too much from Manafort. They offered no immunity and now Mueller is free to use all his prosecutor tricks on Manafort. He's one of the most obviously guilty of the Trump team, so Mueller should be able to work him to full advantage. If he wants to stay out of prison for a good long time, he'll cooperate and testify about everything.

I assume Mueller knows about everything (and with Trump that's a lot of stuff). Now he's going to have a witness to corroborate it before the Grand Jury. Like I said, make your deal NOW before Mueller's dance card is full if you want to stay out of jail.

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#302655 - 08/11/17 10:27 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6235
Loc: Highlands, Tx
hmmm .all interesting but I suspect Mr Trump is not very detail oriented. He may have said things in broad strokes which his minions took to an extreme i.e. Mr Trump may not know anything or be aware of anything. Remember this guys has a 2 inch attention span.

In his narcissistic reverie, he may have been oblivious to a possible conspiracy of his underlings who would do anything including criminally colluding with the Russians to get Mr Trump elected. I can see it now ... a scene from the middle of the movie ... Mr Trump stepping onto the balcony of his penthouse in Trump Tower walking slowly to the rail, firmly grabbing it and looking intently over the city, firm in his mind that the conspiracy in the other room of which he has no knowledge will catapult him to the presidency ... <slow pan into smoke filled room with Stone, Manafort, Page Kushner Jr plotting how to use the Russian info ... slow fade with voices heard saying ....kompromat ... Clinton .... victory>
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