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#302815 - 08/21/17 03:02 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8002
Loc: North San Diego County
Anarchy: It sort of seems appealing: Who doesn't love freedom? But somebody else will soon decide they are free to take all your food, your gold, your daughter. It's a lot like Fascism or Monarchy, just the bullies are all free-lancers. You still lose.

The systems near the middle of your chart are much secure environments. In Socialism through Conservatism we have rule of law. The main difference is just how much stuff the government should do (which you have to pay for in taxes). But like The Rolling Stones said: "You get what you need."

But the funny thing is that Conservatives are pretty much Socialists within their own family. Just see what they do when one of the kids needs expensive medical care! In fact, you could say "Each gives according to his ability. Each takes according to his need." Which of course is an old Communist Party slogan.

So what exactly is "family"? Who is inside the us versus then boundary?

Some people think "us" is only themselves. We call them sociopaths.
Some people think all living beings are "us". We call them Hindus.
Some people think their own race is "us". We call them racists.
Some people think think every American is "us". We call them Democrats.

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#302816 - 08/21/17 03:26 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13357
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all


Some people think "us" is only themselves. We call them sociopaths.
Some people think all living beings are "us". We call them Hindus.
Some people think their own race is "us". We call them racists.
Some people think think every American is "us". We call them Democrats.


Was that original? Because it's effin brilliant!
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"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
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#302817 - 08/21/17 04:32 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8002
Loc: North San Diego County
Original. I call it my Theory of "us" Versus "them" Boundary Distance. It's really a useful scale for seeing political differences.

It doesn't depend on labels, just feelings that everybody has. But all of us have different feelings about who is in our "family".

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#302818 - 08/21/17 07:29 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41054
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Original. I call it my Theory of "us" Versus "them" Boundary Distance. It's really a useful scale for seeing political differences.

It doesn't depend on labels, just feelings that everybody has. But all of us have different feelings about who is in our "family".

I would change only one line and that is the last one. I would change "Democrat" to Progressive, because Blue Dog Democrats are racists, usually.

Racism isn't a Democrat or Republican ideology, but it is 100% a CONservative ideology.

CONservatism is the only common thread to pre-1964 Democrats and post-1964 Republicans.
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#302819 - 08/21/17 12:13 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1096

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#302824 - 08/21/17 07:12 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13357
Loc: Whittier, California
I daresay that the PYD is a form of naturally occurring anarchism that is the result of the very same kind of brutal governments that helped form the nascient anarchism of the 19th century that PIA referenced above.

It's a neat trick of Nature that extremism on one end often triggers extremism on the other, but the pendulum cannot stay tilted to either crazy angle for very long.

I've been reminded that both Gandhi and MLK were both anarchists, which proves my earlier comments about finding good people in almost any movement, but it doesn't change the fact that, under anarchy, you're basically standing there with your pants around your ankles at a NAMBLA convention. Persons like Gandhi and MLK tend to be the exception, not the rule, particularly when you remove all state protections.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#302827 - 08/21/17 11:08 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8002
Loc: North San Diego County
Sure, that's what the Kurds do in reaction to the oppressive totalitarian governments around them. But just wait until they decide to build a freeway, or institute some sort of public health, or spray their whole country for mosquitoes so people don't get West Nile.

They will form a liberal parliamentary government just because there are some things only the state can do efficiently.

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#302830 - 08/22/17 03:46 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16310
I'm not sure how one says MLK was an anarchist. When? Since he was seeking to "bend" the machinery of government toward Justice, and his movement was directed at bringing fairness, equality to the law and society (little black children and little white children sitting down together), that is not anarchism. I'd like specificity on that point. He was quite a statist in many of his speeches. Malcolm X on the other hand...
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302832 - 08/22/17 06:32 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8002
Loc: North San Diego County
Again, if not for the government Malcolm X had to deal with, he probably would have felt very differently about it. Imagine a Malcolm X-type living in a benevolent socialist state like Sweden: He would likely have not agitated for changes in the state, but more for changes in the people.

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#302834 - 08/22/17 06:55 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pondering_it_all]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
This is rich.

Quote:
A Republican state lawmaker in Idaho refused to back away Monday from claims that the deadly violence following a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, earlier this month might have been staged with the help of former President Barack Obama.

Representative Bryan Zollinger shared an article last week that suggested the “Unite the Right” march was orchestrated by Obama along with other leading Democrats, such as Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe, Charlottesville Mayor Michael Signer and billionaire donor George Soros.


One source

We should have known Obama was behind the nazi rally in Charlottesville. Damn him and his wisdom. He knew that all he had to do was set up a venue and let the nazis act like themselves in order to make them look bad. It was a trap!

Boy, Republicans sure elect a lot of weirdos.
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