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#302668 - 08/13/17 08:13 PM Charolottesville
pdx rick Offline
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"Unite the Right" (Alt-right, neo-Confederate, neo-Nazi, militia, white nationalist, and white supremacist) met in Charlottesville, Virginia on August 11th and 12th to protest the removal of Confederate monuments and memorials from public spaces, specifically the Robert Edward Lee Sculpture in Charlotteville's Emancipation Park

Speakers included Tim Treadstone, Augustus Invictus, David Duke, Richard Spencer, Mike Enoch, and League of the South founder Michael Hill.

Counter protesters from Black Lives Matter and Antifa showed up during the protest and violence broke out between the two groups. During the commotion, a car driven by one of the rally attendees plowed into a crowd of counter-protesters, killing a woman and injuring 19 others, five critically. At least 19 people were injured in "street brawls" and other violence at the rally.

A police helicopter monitoring the response to the rally violence crashed, killing the two troopers on board.

President Trump condemned the violence in the "strongest words possible" in a speech from his Bedminster, NJ golf course.
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#302669 - 08/13/17 08:14 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Donald J Trump built a white nationalist brain trust in his administration consisting of white supremacists Steve Bannon, Sebastian Gorka, Stephen Miller, Michael Anton and has racist and bigoted Jefferson Beauregard Sessions as Attorney General tells us that Donald J Trump supports bigotry and hatred. THAT is the reason why Trump did not call-out the Alt-right, neo-Confederate, neo-Nazi, militia, white nationalist, and white supremacist groups by name.
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#302670 - 08/13/17 10:27 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


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Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
Charo might take umbrage.
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The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302671 - 08/13/17 10:30 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


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Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
So far the top excuses are:

1. He was scared, and surrounded by leftists.
Debunked, video shows he was on a relatively empty street and accelerated to 45 mph and plowed into a crowd 200 yards away.

2. His car was pushed.
Yeah right, pushed to 45 mph, wow...I want those guys on my NASCAR team next time I race.

3. He's really an anti-Trump leftist.

4. The car had no license plates.
Yeah, those same invisible people who pushed his car to 45 mph also magically attached Ohio license plate GVF 1111 mere seconds before impact.

5. Black Lives Matter
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The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302672 - 08/13/17 10:32 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
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Loc: Whittier, California
From Tim Sassoon:
American Jews who voted for Trump ought to consider carefully what they have done.

_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302673 - 08/13/17 10:33 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
Madison Square Garden.
May 17, 1934 American Nazi convention.
We've reached that point again in America today.



_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302674 - 08/14/17 01:01 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Millions of people died just 70-80 years ago to wipe out this BS.

Do we need to do that again? Because we will.

Nazis either died in WW II or they were hunted down and imprisoned or executed.

Tolerance is a fine thing, but we can't tolerate intolerance.

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#302680 - 08/14/17 03:43 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
Most entertaining part is watching the revisionists squirm.
For those that still believe the Nazis and KKK are violent left wing radicals, it makes perfect sense that they were attending a "unite the right" rally... explain THAT, idiots...
There's an eighteen month old living next door who ate all the Scrabble tiles and his poop makes more sense than that.
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302681 - 08/14/17 04:46 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
...For those that still believe the Nazis and KKK are violent left wing radicals...

Nazism has always been a right-sided political spectrum philosophy.

...and the KKK was never "left wing." The KKK has always been CONservative. CONseratism has always been about racism and bigotry.

Yes, CONservative Democrats started the KKK and even wrote Jim Crow laws.

In 1964 when the Civil Rights Act was signed, CONservative Democrats switched to the Republican party to spite Lyndon Johnson. Richard Nixon also recruited the CONservative Democrats under his "Southern Strategy" effort.

While some CONservative Democrats remain in the Democratic party today and they're called Blue Dog Democrats, most CONservatives are in the Republican Party, today.


Racism and bigotry are not a Democrat or Republican ideology, but racism and bigotry are 100% CONservative ideologies.

The takeaway: CONservatism is the common thread to Democrat and Republican racism and bigotry AND to rightwing political philosophies like Nazism.
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#302682 - 08/14/17 04:49 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA


ps. It is not progressives who advocate ethnic purity - that would be a CONservative ideal. Progressives welcome All races and ALL faces, CONservatives do not.
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#302683 - 08/14/17 04:56 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Well...well...well...what have we here?

In 1927, Donald Trump’s father was arrested after a Klan riot in Queens

WaPo

Golly, why doesn't Donald J Trump denounce white supremacists? Because apples don't fall far from the tree. smile
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#302684 - 08/14/17 05:18 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA


At 3:36pm EDT 8/12/17, Andrew Anglin, editor of Daily Stormer a neo-Nazi website, had this to say about Trump's speech:

Quote:
There was virtually no counter-signaling us at all

He said he loves us all

Also refused to answer question about white nationalists supporting him

No condemnation at all

When asked to condemn, walked out of the room

Really, really good

God bless him
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#302685 - 08/14/17 05:49 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA


GoDaddy just kicked neo-Nazi Daily Stormer, the site I wrote about above, off of the Internet. smile

MarketWatch

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#302686 - 08/14/17 06:08 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7103
Loc: North San Diego County
There is this thing call Internet Death: Not much used anymore, but if you were a real jerk and clogged up the internet in it's early days you suffered this penalty. A list of IP numbers was circulated and nobody would connect with you. Your internet connection was dead. All gateways and routers would just drop your packets.

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#302687 - 08/14/17 08:12 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Posts: 40562
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

A scathing rebuke of Donald J Trump by Politico:

Quote:
Ford, Ronald Reagan and Bush knew full well that the overwhelming majority of black voters would not be voting for them, but they could not permit such remarks to be deemed “acceptable.” These Republican presidents showed they understood that there were not “many sides” to a controversy when someone gives the back of his hand to one group of Americans or another, much less when someone turns his bigotry into a murderous attack on protesters.

Indeed, there was a time, not that long ago, when Republicans would actually campaign for the votes of African-Americans. Reagan gave a memorable speech to the Urban League in 1980, detailing what he called the failure of liberalism to make life better for American blacks. George W. Bush’s 2000 campaign speeches talked extensively about the failing schools in minority neighborhoods and “the soft bigotry of low expectations.”

And Trump? The simplest explanation is that “nationalism”—an outlook championed by Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller, and celebrated in his acceptance and inaugural speeches—is what’s behind Trump’s unwillingness to condemn the racists at Charlottesville. But think about it: Would any halfway rational political mind think that in condemning neo-Nazis and Klansmen, you would risk losing any part of your broader base? That crowd of losers in Charlottesville was tiny—no more than a few hundred people. Is there anything more than a small fragment of Trump’s supporters who genuinely sympathize with the white hoods and swastikas?
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#302692 - 08/14/17 02:46 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jim D (FreeThinker) Offline
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Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 3231
Loc: Aurora Ohio
Recent events and Trumps response have made many things clear, among them: If you are a supporter of Trump (I used to just include followers) you are a racist. Period. No ifs, ands or buts about it. There is no excuse. You would also be just plain stupid.


Edited by Jim D (FreeThinker) (08/14/17 02:47 PM)
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If you're incompetent, you can't know you're incompetent. […] the skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is.

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#302694 - 08/14/17 05:42 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40562
Loc: Puget Sound, WA



Donald J Trump ( I just can't bring myself to write 'President' ) just delivered surprise remarks from the White House, today MO AUG 14th 2017, in the face of mounting criticism that he failed to condemn white supremacy following the Charlottesville terror attack - declaring “racism is evil,” and specifically condemning racist groups.

Sorry, but this is a little too late. His own wife did a better job two days ago.

Just as Donald J Trump a business failure with his six business bankruptcies because ALL of his branded start-up companies have gone under, Donald J Trump is a failure as President of the United States and Leader of the Free World.

Donald J Trump a complete and utter disgrace to America.
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#302695 - 08/14/17 05:57 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7103
Loc: North San Diego County
Every hour between "many sides" and "Nazis are bad, mkay?" screams "psycopath."

We need to take him down just like the statues of Robert E. Lee. He is a malignant tumor on the body politic.

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#302697 - 08/14/17 07:25 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jim D (FreeThinker) Offline
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Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 3231
Loc: Aurora Ohio
Originally Posted By: pdx rick

Donald J Trump a complete and utter disgrace to America.


Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
He is a malignant tumor on the body politic.


Both of you are being far too gracious.


Edited by Jim D (FreeThinker) (08/14/17 07:25 PM)
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Jim

If you're incompetent, you can't know you're incompetent. […] the skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is.

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#302698 - 08/14/17 08:06 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
...For those that still believe the Nazis and KKK are violent left wing radicals...

Nazism has always been a right-sided political spectrum philosophy.

...and the KKK was never "left wing." The KKK has always been CONservative. CONseratism has always been about racism and bigotry.

Yes, CONservative Democrats started the KKK and even wrote Jim Crow laws.

In 1964 when the Civil Rights Act was signed, CONservative Democrats switched to the Republican party to spite Lyndon Johnson. Richard Nixon also recruited the CONservative Democrats under his "Southern Strategy" effort.

While some CONservative Democrats remain in the Democratic party today and they're called Blue Dog Democrats, most CONservatives are in the Republican Party, today.


Racism and bigotry are not a Democrat or Republican ideology, but racism and bigotry are 100% CONservative ideologies.

The takeaway: CONservatism is the common thread to Democrat and Republican racism and bigotry AND to rightwing political philosophies like Nazism.



Rick, why are you telling all of us that?
We know, LOL.
Tell that to all the mental midgets who have invested millions of dollars to spread the revisionist view...HAR!
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302699 - 08/14/17 08:09 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Politico
Is there anything more than a small fragment of Trump’s supporters who genuinely sympathize with the white hoods and swastikas?


Sorry Politico, but there is indeed a large number of supporters who genuinely sympathize.
And not only DO they sympathize, they are weary of democracy itself, and want it replaced with some good hardcore authoritarian theocratic fascism.
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302702 - 08/14/17 10:06 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7103
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
hardcore authoritarian theocratic fascism


Hardcore authoritarian theocratic fascism may have some appeal until for some reason they come for you. People are so short-sighted. Don't they understand any law you pass also applies to you?

The very first thing a fascist regime would do is to take everybody's guns. Then they shut down the internet or at least all it's porn. Give people the death penalty for using illegal drugs, and just about anything fun is illegal. And no more big gas-guzzlers because they cost too much. By then they'll be sorry: All their favorite things are illegal. If you complain, you vanish in the night.

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#302703 - 08/14/17 10:51 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
hardcore authoritarian theocratic fascism


Hardcore authoritarian theocratic fascism may have some appeal until for some reason they come for you. People are so short-sighted. Don't they understand any law you pass also applies to you?

The very first thing a fascist regime would do is to take everybody's guns. Then they shut down the internet or at least all it's porn. Give people the death penalty for using illegal drugs, and just about anything fun is illegal. And no more big gas-guzzlers because they cost too much. By then they'll be sorry: All their favorite things are illegal. If you complain, you vanish in the night.


Now you're asking them to think ahead to consequences which might affect them negatively??
ROTFMOL

These people can't even figure out that the guy wants to yank the Social Security that so many of them live on!

You'll get the same response you get every other time:
They wanted all the bad stuff to happen "to other people"...the OTHER people who aren't like them. They didn't think any of the bad stuff would apply TO THEM!
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302712 - 08/15/17 10:12 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jim D (FreeThinker) Offline
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Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 3231
Loc: Aurora Ohio
So now the racist-in-chief is back to his Saturday statement and disavowing his Monday statement.
Trump Defends Initial Remarks on Charlottesville; Again Blames ‘Both Sides’

Quote:
In a long, combative exchange with reporters at Trump Tower in Manhattan, the president repeatedly rejected a torrent of bipartisan criticism for waiting several days before naming the right-wing groups and placing blame on “many sides” for the violence on Saturday that ended with the death of a young woman after a car crashed into a crowd.


Quote:
And he criticized “alt-left” groups that he claimed were “very, very violent” when they sought to confront the nationalist and Nazi groups that had gathered in Charlottesville, Va., to protest the removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee from a park. He said there is “blame on both sides.”


Somewhere else I see where he said their were fine people on both sides. Let's see now . . . NAZI's and white supremacists are fine people? What a turd.

So this POS in the White House again equates people with clubs, torches and other instruments of intimidation with protesters protesting the hate groups.
_________________________
Jim

If you're incompetent, you can't know you're incompetent. […] the skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is.

--David Dunning

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#302713 - 08/15/17 10:29 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Spag-hetti Offline
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Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1586
Loc: Middle, USA
Oh, good grief.

Our feckless leader, Pres. Trump. He first makes a "tepid and mealy mouthed response" response to Charlottesville. Then a couple of days later comes out with a short, unemotional condemnation of the KKK and other hate groups. I guess since that po'd David Duke, who admonished our feckless leader. So now Trump has face planted in BS with his third response. And now Duke is happy again, thanking and complimenting Trump. Whew, saved that ugly little chunk of base.

Three reactions. First one in the middle, second one on the left, and finally, a very passionate one on the right. Strong, steadfast values, huh?

And his stupid argument about taking down statues. No, we won't take down George Washington's statue. He was a president of the United States and he didn't wage war on the United States.

This guy is such an ignorant nut case he makes my molars ache.



Edited by Spag-hetti (08/15/17 10:30 PM)
Edit Reason: shoulda proofread
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#302714 - 08/15/17 10:41 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Spag-hetti]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1586
Loc: Middle, USA
Oh, yeah. And Trump thought it was such a big deal that the KKK had a permit to be in the park on Saturday. I'm pretty sure they didn't have a permit for a torch lit procession to a local church on Friday night. I guess it was some kind of surprise historical reenactment.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#302718 - 08/16/17 01:22 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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I see the Tiki Torch company has disavowed the KKK. Pretty funny.

Quote:
No, we won't take down George Washington's statue. He was a president of the United States and he didn't wage war on the United States.


Donald doesn't understand the meaning of the word "treason", obviously.

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#302720 - 08/16/17 04:38 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302721 - 08/16/17 04:41 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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George Wallace should be so proud. Trump established his bona fides as a white supremacist. It cannot be sugar coated. I listened to his actual remarks. Wow. Bull Connor, move over.
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#302722 - 08/16/17 09:26 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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There was a time in America when kicking a Nazi's butt, was cheered. Eighty years later, Trump, CONservatives, and Alt-Righters call Nazi butt-kickers "trouble makers."

Trump and his sycophants are Nazi sympathizers. How said is that?!?
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#302726 - 08/16/17 05:29 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
Anyone who saw The Wizard of Oz knows that Flying Monkeys say "Oh we yo - yo-ooooo".
Anyone who has seen a Nazi knows that they say "Jews will not replace us" and "Blood and soil".
(Oh and...the "14 words") wink
Anyone who has seen a Nazi/KKK loving president knows that they say "lots of very fine people on both sides."
It's really very simple!
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302727 - 08/16/17 05:34 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
Oh and, PDX Rick, what did Charo ever do to you?

ROTFMOL

_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302729 - 08/16/17 07:33 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
jgw Offline
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Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1745
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
This is all very strange. The righteous white right tell us that they had 1500 fellow travelers. I remember listening to some official, from Charlottesville, saying that he watched "hundreds" if torch bearers marching down the street and that gave him some pause. These people are not only out of the woodwork but going public in a pretty big way. If you study your history this is the way it always starts, ie. cowing the public, scaring the crap out of everybody, lying and making all sorts of claims so that they get covered by the news, etc.

Right now it seems that the Republicans, by their studied silence (with exceptions), pretty much have laid claim to the far right mantle Trump running the country by fiat. They spend most of their time interpreting the utterings of their beloved leader Donald Trump. (who we really have no idea of who he is or what he stands for, other than "Donald Trump"). Trump lies, we know he lies and his supporters know he lies and, now, they are starting to mimic that work ethic (lying). This means, basically, that our 2 party system has devolved to the authoritarian model (Hitler, Mussalini, Stalin, Nero, etc) on the right and who knows what on the left (all they seem to agree on is that they hate Trump). I used to believe that the right believed in democracy and one nation governed by the constitution and men of good will. Not any longer - The Republicans have proven that they have no sense of morality, no integrity, and not even a hint that there is a difference between good and evil. This is, I think, not a real good place to be as, it seems, we are just a heartbeat from full on, civil war. This tends to make me a bit nervous.

I think that there are more opposed to the authoritarian model than for it. However, that being said, there are no leaders rising up on the left with any real credentials or followers. Just the same old tired politicians desparate to keep their jobs no matter what they have to personally sacrifice (integrity, honesty, fair play, the nation that we know, etc). Instead we have a left so splintered that I doubt they could agree on the color of the sky. This makes me even more nervous.

I have always believed that there are, someplace, adults that can take charge, get things done, and protect the nation. It was a nice belief that has always given me comfort. I fear that comfort seems to be lessening as the right continues on its unhindered rise. The right may have fewer members than the left but they do have a leader which, in spite of a few weakly protesting from the right, seems to have been accepted and listened to. The rest of us are simply waiting for 'something' to happen and, virtually every day, something does, much to the detriment of the nation and its political body.

When I write to my elected, and sometimes actually talk to them, they actually have very little to say. They are all currently dems, and they have NOTHING to say of any interest. Just the normal mealy mouthed baloney. They whine, they deplore, they feel bad, they don't seem to be capable of leadering and have no leadership, no real thoughts, etc.

We have a bit of a problem, I think..................

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#302730 - 08/16/17 11:03 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7103
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
1500 fellow travelers


The city of Charlottesville has a population of over 46,000 people. It's hard to believe a few thousand of them couldn't load up their rifles and quickly form a militia to protect the town from outsiders. All they needed was some brightly colored armbands and their beloved guns and stand along every street downtown.

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#302733 - 08/17/17 02:56 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
Anti-Fa Are Not Liberal Rambos



Please don't link my views with Antifa.
I get that they are marching alongside the counterprotesters, I get that they are currently aligned with the liberals.
This is a relationship of pure convenience, because at their core, what IS AN "ANTIFA" really?
We GET that they claim to be "anti-fa" or "anti-fascist" but WHAT ARE THEY FOR?
Let's pretend that ALL fascism has now been wiped out completely, utterly, 100%.
What is left for the antifa? They now must lead, so what do they lead with? What is their platform?
Their platform, for anyone interested in reading their sermons and screeds, is anarchy.
They do not HAVE THE SUFFICIENT NUMBERS to MAKE an impact ON THIER OWN so they align with the liberals and the Left.
And?? What's the point?
The point is, they are no friends of liberals or the Left either.
They're just using liberals as a tool to promote their own anarchist ideology, and I got absolutely NO USE for anarchists.
The counterprotesters would have done JUST FINE WITHOUT a single Anti-Fa member, and trust me, the same sad tragedy would have happened even if no anti-fa ever showed up, and the resolve of ANTI-NAZI and ANTI-KKK people from all walks of life would have remained every bit as firm.
And if you're too quick to lump the Black Lives Matter movement in with the Anti-Fa you may have missed the fact that BLM has been growing and maturing. We don't see Marissa Johnson and her "Sipping on White Tears" tee shirts anymore, we see Black Lives Matter leaders who are taking a seat at the table and offering sound leadership focus, and that started happening around the time the 2016 Democratic convention took place.
Sorry, I will not be offering any support to Anti-Fa and if that upsets you, you know where the door is, because I have yet to see any actual leadership coming from the Anti-Fa, who aren't FOR ANYTHING in real life.
That's why their entire identity is tied up in an "ANTI" posture.
They ran out of ideas after coming up with that one note pony.

The photo is "The Redneck Revolt" which is an armed offshoot of the Anti-Fa, sort of a redneck John Brown's Army.
The only cause they benefit is their own, or the Right, when the Right uses them as an example of "the violent Left".
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302734 - 08/17/17 04:55 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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This is what a whiney little bitch neo-Nazi looks like:

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#302735 - 08/17/17 04:55 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Oh and, PDX Rick, what did Charo ever do to you?

ROTFMOL



Too much coochie, coochie. crazy

(I've seen better looking drag queens laugh )
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#302736 - 08/17/17 06:19 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7103
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
The counterprotesters would have done JUST FINE WITHOUT a single Anti-Fa member


I actually read some statements from the faith-based people in Charlottesville in a piece by Dahlia Lithwick (Slate's Supreme Court columnist and Charlottsville resident) and several of them said Antifa people saved their lives when alt-righters attacked. A lot of these people were clergy in full uniform.

So, do I believe you or do I believe people who actually were there and experienced violent attacks? The reporter is quite reliable, so I tend to believe her. I suppose all these members of the clergy could be lying to promote some agenda, but somehow I don't think they are all anarchists.

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#302738 - 08/17/17 08:37 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Antifa = Anti Fascism
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#302739 - 08/17/17 02:09 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 658
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Anti-Fa Are Not Liberal Rambos



Please don't link my views with Antifa.
I get that they are marching alongside the counterprotesters, I get that they are currently aligned with the liberals.
This is a relationship of pure convenience, because at their core, what IS AN "ANTIFA" really?
We GET that they claim to be "anti-fa" or "anti-fascist" but WHAT ARE THEY FOR?
Let's pretend that ALL fascism has now been wiped out completely, utterly, 100%.
What is left for the antifa? They now must lead, so what do they lead with? What is their platform?
Their platform, for anyone interested in reading their sermons and screeds, is anarchy.
They do not HAVE THE SUFFICIENT NUMBERS to MAKE an impact ON THIER OWN so they align with the liberals and the Left.
And?? What's the point?
The point is, they are no friends of liberals or the Left either.
They're just using liberals as a tool to promote their own anarchist ideology, and I got absolutely NO USE for anarchists.
The counterprotesters would have done JUST FINE WITHOUT a single Anti-Fa member, and trust me, the same sad tragedy would have happened even if no anti-fa ever showed up, and the resolve of ANTI-NAZI and ANTI-KKK people from all walks of life would have remained every bit as firm.
And if you're too quick to lump the Black Lives Matter movement in with the Anti-Fa you may have missed the fact that BLM has been growing and maturing. We don't see Marissa Johnson and her "Sipping on White Tears" tee shirts anymore, we see Black Lives Matter leaders who are taking a seat at the table and offering sound leadership focus, and that started happening around the time the 2016 Democratic convention took place.
Sorry, I will not be offering any support to Anti-Fa and if that upsets you, you know where the door is, because I have yet to see any actual leadership coming from the Anti-Fa, who aren't FOR ANYTHING in real life.
That's why their entire identity is tied up in an "ANTI" posture.
They ran out of ideas after coming up with that one note pony.

The photo is "The Redneck Revolt" which is an armed offshoot of the Anti-Fa, sort of a redneck John Brown's Army.
The only cause they benefit is their own, or the Right, when the Right uses them as an example of "the violent Left".


Edjumicate yourself

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#302740 - 08/17/17 03:47 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 658

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#302741 - 08/17/17 04:26 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: chunkstyle]
Spag-hetti Offline
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Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1586
Loc: Middle, USA
Trump mini-me, Maine Governor LePage, spoke in support of Trump's call for stopping the removal of confederate monuments, and this fell out of his pie hole:

“This is what our history is," he said, in an appearance on Portland radio station WGAN. "And it’s just, to me, it’s just like going to New York City right now and taking down the monument of those that perished in the 9/11 [sic]. It will come to that.”

I guess the interviewer didn't think to ask exactly how removing confederate monuments is "just like" removing the 9/11 monument. Perhaps I'm slow witted, but I don't see the similarity. Except for a few words in common in the sentences like "taking down" and "monument."

Wonder how many confederate monuments Maine has. I'm guessing close to zero. Maybe LePage can pick up a few of the unwanted confederate monuments ... really cheap, if he drives down and gets them.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#302742 - 08/17/17 05:34 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 658
Ironic that Page governs from a state that you could make the argument for having saved the union. It was the 20th Regiment from Maine that held the Union army's left flank down to the last bullet in the battle of Little Round Top on the second day of the battle of Gettysburg. Exhausting all their ammo and bracing for another push from the confederate Alabamians, Col. Joshua Chamberlain ordered a bayonet charge (almost never used in the war) into the approaching confederates. THeyr'e surprise led to a full scale retreat and saved the Union from a possible defeat.
Page dishonors the service and sacrifice Maine has made for our country.
Problems is does the people of Maine know it?


Edited by chunkstyle (08/17/17 05:35 PM)

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#302745 - 08/17/17 10:22 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
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"And it’s just, to me, it’s just like going to New York City right now and taking down the monument of those that perished in the 9/11 sick.." Well, yeah, If Al Qaeda had put up a monument to the terrorists who crashed the planes! What a sick moron and sorry excuse for an alleged human being.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302747 - 08/17/17 11:04 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3738
Loc: Eugene, OR
Quote:
What a sick moron and sorry excuse for an alleged human being.


And yet Donald Trumps fans still love him as much as ever for “sticking to his guns”. What does that say about those resolute 35%? They love the fact that he shows total resolve and continues to assuage the neo-fascists that they relate to.

Complete with four star general Pershing’s “swine blood dipped bullets”.

The fact is, except for a very few brave Republican voices, almost all of them are aboard the “Trump Train.” And likely will continue to remain so. So from all appearances Mr. Trump shall remain as Commander in Chief for the foreseeable future.

And possibly even be re-elected!
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#302750 - 08/18/17 01:00 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pondering_it_all]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7103
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
There is this thing call Internet Death


And I see that GoDaddy, Cloudflare, Google, Facebook, etc. have all decided Nazis deserve the death penalty.

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#302753 - 08/18/17 04:10 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pdx rick

Antifa = Anti Fascism



That's like saying if you like British music, you must be a fan of the Sex Pistols.
I GET that if you are against fascism, you are "anti-fascist".
I also even get the fact that if you ask any five Anti-Fa members what they are FOR, you get five different answers.
Ahhhh yes, it's the old "leaderless movement" thing again, remember Occupy?

I am so sick of hearing the term "leaderless movement".
There is NO SUCH THING as a leaderless movement,
If you intend for a movement to produce useful change that actually holds up, to scrutiny, to stress, to the ravages of time, you HAVE to have FOCUS and you HAVE to have LEADERSHIP.
This has been true since the dawn of recorded history.
Sheep are leaderless movements, lemmings are leaderless movements, plankton is a leaderless movement, krill are leaderless movements.

So just because I am anti fascism does NOT MEAN I am "Anti-Fa"...subtle difference but a difference worth noting.
I don't DO "leaderless movements".
I want my movements to have leaders and a clear and concise set of ideas.

I am sure that if I look I could find plenty of good, decent people with big hearts in the Anti-Fa movement.
I am sure that if I look hard enough I can find something Trump did that I like.

Sorry not sorry, I still want MY movements to have focus, clarity and A LEADER or leadership council, and a mission statement.


Edited by Jeffery J. Haas (08/18/17 04:13 AM)
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302754 - 08/18/17 04:16 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
Oh looky, it's one of those "beautiful Confederate monuments" that Trump thinks we should preserve!!

Is This The Nation’s Nastiest Monument?




Edited by Jeffery J. Haas (08/18/17 04:35 AM)
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302755 - 08/18/17 04:42 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Ken Condon]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon

Complete with four star general Pershing’s “swine blood dipped bullets”.


Which never actually happened tinfoilhat

History News Network
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302759 - 08/18/17 01:40 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1586
Loc: Middle, USA
I wonder if Trump knows that white supremacists were invited to Charlottesville to "Unite the Right," not to "Save the Confederate Statues."


Edited by Spag-hetti (08/18/17 01:41 PM)
Edit Reason: comma added
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#302762 - 08/18/17 03:04 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 658
"Sorry not sorry, I still want MY movements to have focus, clarity and A LEADER or leadership council, and a mission statement."

Well two out of three ain't bad Jeff but I guess you may not have considered why the third is of no use to the anarchists.
The first two attributes you've listed are present and makes me wonder why you would present it as not being so?

I've been looking at Syria to see how the movement is working out there. Time will tell I guess.

The way I see it, there's a rift in the two ruling parties of the American empire. On the one hand you have the republicans war between inclusive fascism and exclusive facism.
In the democratic party you have a fight between fascism lite and representative democracy.

You can guess as to which groups are representing the warring ideologies of either camps.

Another good read from Taibbi just out delves into Bannon's elite exclusive fascism:
Fire Steve Bannon


Edited by chunkstyle (08/18/17 03:05 PM)

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#302763 - 08/18/17 03:04 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Spag-hetti]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1586
Loc: Middle, USA
A friend texted me this little ditty. I don't know the source.

(sing merrily)

If you're a Nazi and you're fired, it's your fault. (clap, clap)
If you're a Nazi and you're fired, it's your fault. (clap, clap)
If you were spotted in the mob and now you've lost your f++king job,
If you're a Nazi and you're fired, it's your fault. (clap, clap)
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#302777 - 08/19/17 05:52 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
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The "free speech rally" in Boston fizzled spectacularly as peaceful counter-protesters outnumbered them about 50:1.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302778 - 08/19/17 06:19 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: NW Ponderer]
Spag-hetti Offline
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Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1586
Loc: Middle, USA
One reporter said there were about twenty people at the "Free Speech" rally. Another said a few dozen.

The counter protesters were said to number between fifteen and twenty thousand.

Sends a message, doesn't it?
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#302780 - 08/20/17 01:15 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7103
Loc: North San Diego County
That's about the right ratio. Same for Nazis versus anti-nazis all over the country. Even in the South, even among Republicans, people in Nazi uniforms spewing hate and throwing Nazi salutes are vastly outnumbered by people who HATE these guys.

They're vastly outnumbered by Jews!

So Nazis, I recommend you go crawl back under the rocks you slithered out from. Or even better, go get some psychiatric help before you end up in prison.

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#302783 - 08/20/17 03:29 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Ujest Shurly Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 234
Loc: Michigan, USA
ROFL LMAO

CNN video of the Boston Free Speech rally

The attendees are in the gazebo...
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Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#302784 - 08/20/17 03:40 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Thank LMAO.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302785 - 08/20/17 07:15 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Spag-hetti]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
T“This is what our history is," [Maine Governor LePage] said, in an appearance on Portland radio station WGAN.

Yup it sure is, sir. It's your CONservative, bigoted, history. laugh

CONservatives: If it's not white, it's not right.
Progressives:: ALL faces, ALL races

smile
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#302786 - 08/20/17 07:24 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Their platform, for anyone interested in reading their sermons and screeds, is anarchy.
They do not HAVE THE SUFFICIENT NUMBERS to MAKE an impact ON THIER OWN so they align with the liberals and the Left.

Anarchy IS a Leftwing political philosophy. Hmm

I support AntiFa because they will punch a American Nazi in the face. smile

There was a time in America when kicking a Nazi's butt, was cheered in America. Eighty years later, Trump, CONservatives, and Alt-Righters call Nazi butt-kickers "trouble makers."
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#302787 - 08/20/17 07:29 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Spag-hetti]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
I wonder if Trump knows that white supremacists were invited to Charlottesville to "Unite the Right," not to "Save the Confederate Statues."

Great point!! Bow
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#302788 - 08/20/17 07:30 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: chunkstyle]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40562
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Well two out of three ain't bad


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#302789 - 08/20/17 07:40 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
The "free speech rally" in Boston fizzled spectacularly as peaceful counter-protesters outnumbered them about 50:1.

The real issue is that Fascist CONservatives think that consequence-free speech is First Amendment protect speech against government (by extension Presidential) actions.
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#302791 - 08/20/17 01:38 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15537
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Their platform, for anyone interested in reading their sermons and screeds, is anarchy.
They do not HAVE THE SUFFICIENT NUMBERS to MAKE an impact ON THIER OWN so they align with the liberals and the Left.

Anarchy IS a Leftwing political philosophy. Hmm

No, it is not. Anarchy, or anarchists, is just "against government". It's the antithesis of "left wing" (socialism).
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302792 - 08/20/17 01:55 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Hmm

It's my understanding that Anarchy came as a split from Marxism. Anarchists believe that the state will always be oppressive, no matter who is in charge. Anarchists want to go straight to a classless, stateless society.

Some anarchist theories believe in the worker ownership of industry, some in the communal ownership of industry, others in the destruction of industry, depending on the flavor of anarchism
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#302797 - 08/20/17 06:03 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Nice slide, but who's it from? (I'll hazard a guess). This kind of linear thinking comes from an incomplete/simplistic understanding of anarchism (and political philosophy generally). While early anarchists were associated with the left, that is because they were against the governments of their time who were all right of centre. The splits within anarchism followed shortly after labor movements and bolshevik revolutions occurred. Now most anarchist movements are delineated by what they are against. left anarchism is a thing, but so is anarcho-capitalism (free marketeers) and "post-left" anarchism.

I admit, I don't like the whole "left-right" paradigm as it is incomplete and misleading, preferred by the right to tar all with the same brush. It is really hard to tell Stalin from Hitler in the real world. There are better models. I prefer the "political compass" approach. It has two axes, which helps, but is still fairly crude. Enough of my political science nerdism. I think we can all agree that white nationalists, Nazis and supremecists are scum.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302802 - 08/20/17 07:41 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7103
Loc: North San Diego County
In a lot of ways, anarchists and libertarians are very similar!

They both want to make all decisions for themselves and have no government control.

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#302803 - 08/20/17 08:20 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


I support AntiFa because they will punch a American Nazi in the face. smile



I'm all for that part but the problem is, I don't WANT to "smash capitalism" and erase the American state and all other nation-states and their institutions.
You don't get to align with Anti-Fa and then pick and choose what part of their ideology to support.
If you identify as Anti-Fa (the group) you identify with everything that they believe in.
Same thing with groups like International A.N.S.W.E.R.
I don't want to be a communist. I am against war and racism but I don't love communism.
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302805 - 08/20/17 08:22 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12743
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


Hmm

It's my understanding that Anarchy came as a split from Marxism. Anarchists believe that the state will always be oppressive, no matter who is in charge. Anarchists want to go straight to a classless, stateless society.

Some anarchist theories believe in the worker ownership of industry, some in the communal ownership of industry, others in the destruction of industry, depending on the flavor of anarchism


It's an immature concept, another goddam utopia.
Not interested in utopias, they always wear out before the warranty period is over, and customer support for broken utopias is nonexistent.
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The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302810 - 08/21/17 12:15 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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I'm right in the Socialist/Liberalism divide. I would love it if America could be more like some countries that are Socialist, but I'm not sure you can get there from here. And being able to get there is more important to me than any particular ideology. Maybe that's because I am a scientist/engineer: I have to see exactly how something can work without depending on miracles.

The rest go from stupid to downright ugly. All that "smash the state" nonsense is in reaction to 19th century states that were all EXTREMELY right wing. If governments were all Socialist, I think the Anarchists would be out of business from lack of participation. I suspect most Antifa members have regular jobs or are supported by families that enjoy many benefits of a Liberal government.

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#302811 - 08/21/17 01:33 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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I've never studied Anarchy, it's never been a part of my educational curriculum. What I know of anarchy, I've learned on the internet. gobsmacked

It's true. Hmm
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#302815 - 08/21/17 03:02 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Anarchy: It sort of seems appealing: Who doesn't love freedom? But somebody else will soon decide they are free to take all your food, your gold, your daughter. It's a lot like Fascism or Monarchy, just the bullies are all free-lancers. You still lose.

The systems near the middle of your chart are much secure environments. In Socialism through Conservatism we have rule of law. The main difference is just how much stuff the government should do (which you have to pay for in taxes). But like The Rolling Stones said: "You get what you need."

But the funny thing is that Conservatives are pretty much Socialists within their own family. Just see what they do when one of the kids needs expensive medical care! In fact, you could say "Each gives according to his ability. Each takes according to his need." Which of course is an old Communist Party slogan.

So what exactly is "family"? Who is inside the us versus then boundary?

Some people think "us" is only themselves. We call them sociopaths.
Some people think all living beings are "us". We call them Hindus.
Some people think their own race is "us". We call them racists.
Some people think think every American is "us". We call them Democrats.

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#302816 - 08/21/17 03:26 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all


Some people think "us" is only themselves. We call them sociopaths.
Some people think all living beings are "us". We call them Hindus.
Some people think their own race is "us". We call them racists.
Some people think think every American is "us". We call them Democrats.


Was that original? Because it's effin brilliant!
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The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302817 - 08/21/17 04:32 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Original. I call it my Theory of "us" Versus "them" Boundary Distance. It's really a useful scale for seeing political differences.

It doesn't depend on labels, just feelings that everybody has. But all of us have different feelings about who is in our "family".

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#302818 - 08/21/17 07:29 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Original. I call it my Theory of "us" Versus "them" Boundary Distance. It's really a useful scale for seeing political differences.

It doesn't depend on labels, just feelings that everybody has. But all of us have different feelings about who is in our "family".

I would change only one line and that is the last one. I would change "Democrat" to Progressive, because Blue Dog Democrats are racists, usually.

Racism isn't a Democrat or Republican ideology, but it is 100% a CONservative ideology.

CONservatism is the only common thread to pre-1964 Democrats and post-1964 Republicans.
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#302819 - 08/21/17 12:13 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
chunkstyle Offline
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#302824 - 08/21/17 07:12 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


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I daresay that the PYD is a form of naturally occurring anarchism that is the result of the very same kind of brutal governments that helped form the nascient anarchism of the 19th century that PIA referenced above.

It's a neat trick of Nature that extremism on one end often triggers extremism on the other, but the pendulum cannot stay tilted to either crazy angle for very long.

I've been reminded that both Gandhi and MLK were both anarchists, which proves my earlier comments about finding good people in almost any movement, but it doesn't change the fact that, under anarchy, you're basically standing there with your pants around your ankles at a NAMBLA convention. Persons like Gandhi and MLK tend to be the exception, not the rule, particularly when you remove all state protections.
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The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#302827 - 08/21/17 11:08 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Sure, that's what the Kurds do in reaction to the oppressive totalitarian governments around them. But just wait until they decide to build a freeway, or institute some sort of public health, or spray their whole country for mosquitoes so people don't get West Nile.

They will form a liberal parliamentary government just because there are some things only the state can do efficiently.

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#302830 - 08/22/17 03:46 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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I'm not sure how one says MLK was an anarchist. When? Since he was seeking to "bend" the machinery of government toward Justice, and his movement was directed at bringing fairness, equality to the law and society (little black children and little white children sitting down together), that is not anarchism. I'd like specificity on that point. He was quite a statist in many of his speeches. Malcolm X on the other hand...
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#302832 - 08/22/17 06:32 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Again, if not for the government Malcolm X had to deal with, he probably would have felt very differently about it. Imagine a Malcolm X-type living in a benevolent socialist state like Sweden: He would likely have not agitated for changes in the state, but more for changes in the people.

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#302834 - 08/22/17 06:55 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pondering_it_all]
Spag-hetti Offline
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This is rich.

Quote:
A Republican state lawmaker in Idaho refused to back away Monday from claims that the deadly violence following a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, earlier this month might have been staged with the help of former President Barack Obama.

Representative Bryan Zollinger shared an article last week that suggested the “Unite the Right” march was orchestrated by Obama along with other leading Democrats, such as Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe, Charlottesville Mayor Michael Signer and billionaire donor George Soros.


One source

We should have known Obama was behind the nazi rally in Charlottesville. Damn him and his wisdom. He knew that all he had to do was set up a venue and let the nazis act like themselves in order to make them look bad. It was a trap!

Boy, Republicans sure elect a lot of weirdos.
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#302841 - 08/23/17 12:54 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Well, he's just trying to find any explanation why Nazi and KKK people look so bad. He knows there are some "fine people" in those organizations. Must be Satan Obama.

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#302843 - 08/23/17 04:32 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
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[video:youtube]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=%23&ved=0ahUKEwjJxaLxwuzVAhVW_mMKHYmbDtkQwqsBCCwwAQ&usg=AFQjCNF1sHlk2z9QIx28jtvfnGP_UlkifA[/video]
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302844 - 08/23/17 04:39 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: NW Ponderer]
Spag-hetti Offline
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Dang, NWP, I couldn't get there from here. I tried using the whole thing, and I tried using pieces of it. I'm not good at this.
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#302850 - 08/24/17 11:15 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Spag-hetti]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
Boy, Republicans sure elect a lot of weirdos.

Right-wingers make things up out of whole-cloth, then there's the CONservative ones withs their paranoia and delusions because they are genetically different from the rest of us. Hmm

Conservatives Big on Fear, Brain Study Finds
Psychology Today

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#302868 - 08/25/17 03:30 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Sorry about the bad link.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302871 - 08/25/17 05:59 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302958 - 09/02/17 10:11 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


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Registered: 08/03/04
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Christopher Cantwell, aka "The Crying Nazi" has a new attorney with a new defense. Cantwell's hateful monologues and threats against blacks, Jews and other minorities are nothing more than a "shock jock" act, says Elmer Woodard, who made his first appearance dressed in an early-1800s-style red waistcoat with gold buttons, bowtie, white muttonchop whiskers, black velcro shoes, and a 1910s-style straw boater hat.

This is not the first time Woodard has used outlandish outfits in court, either. In fact, Woodard is rather fond of costumes, if his social media outlet is any giveaway.


Elmer Woodard on FACEBOOK



Woodard claims he "doesn't really know WHAT happened to Heather Heyer" and claims that Cantwell's videos are "hearsay" and an act, much like Jackie Mason or Henny Youngman, both Jews, interestingly enough.

By all means, explore this enterprising jurist's public comments, they are VERY enlightening. ROTFMOL
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The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#303450 - 10/14/17 06:43 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


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The People of the State of Virginia - 1
Elmer Woodard & 3 Charlottesville Defendants - 0

3 Alt-Right Leaders Found Guilty in Charlottesville Riots
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The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#303451 - 10/14/17 04:32 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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It's a start.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#303467 - 10/15/17 08:48 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas

Meh. Misdemeanors. coffee
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#303478 - 10/16/17 06:08 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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You know, millions of Americans died fighting Nazis. Nazis did horrible things in WW II. Anybody who claims allegiance to them now is just as bad as some American claiming allegiance to Al Queda or ISIS, and should be treated the same way. Worshiping Hitler is not funny or "just a difference of opinion". It is treason, and anyone who claims membership in such an organization should be in federal custody.

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#303482 - 10/16/17 11:55 PM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Well said.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#303516 - 10/20/17 03:58 AM Re: Charolottesville [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
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Loc: Whittier, California
From Charlottesville to Gainesville...
Wally Hayman

Wally Hayman

Nazis in the Bell Tower
Seems the only job Richard Spencer has ever held other than America’s Scholastic Nazi Lecturer-in-Honorarium was a brief stint as an assistant editor at the American Conservative Magazine...until he was fired due to his extremist views.
Who knew conservatives had standards?
I didn’t know it. Nobody knew it.

Richard’s official title is President of the “National Policy Institute,” a euphemism for a virulent neo-Nazi hate group where they refer to themselves as a “think tank,” itself a euphemism for a murder of psychopaths, sociopaths and morons.

So what makes Richard Spencer so special that he’s invited to speak at universities across the country? Is a Nazi-in-Chief more fascinating than a run-of-the-mill Nazi? Are excited attendees metaphorically standing in line for Willie Mays’ autograph as opposed to standing in line for Mario Mendoza’s autograph? What exactly makes the unlettered Spencer’s hate message fresh, new or worthy of intellectual discussion? In short, who the hell is this sociopath, Trump’s accidental lovechild born from too steamy an evening of Tic-Tac overdosing?

Spencer has been banned from entering no less than 26 European democracies. Even the infamously anti-Semitic Hungarians didn’t want Spencer on their turf and actually deported the sickening twit...and the Hungarians didn’t even possess the moral compass to deport Sebastian Gorka!
In America, we now appear to embrace Nazis within our expanded and distemper-ridden big tent.
I guess that’s what to expect when we do away with building codes in the besmirched name of “freedom.”

Welcome to Trumplandia, where you can secure a speaking gig in a crowded university auditorium just to yell “fire” from the podium. In fact, the star-power booking of Spencer at the University of Florida has led the governor to declare a state of emergency before the metaphorical match is lit.
Which raises a silly question. Forgive my ignorance, but since the pending catastrophe in Gainesville hasn’t yet occurred, wouldn’t it be simpler to cancel Spencer’s volksverhetzung rather than clean up the dead and wounded after the fact? I suppose that kind of thinking on my part explains why I’ll never be governor.

But this much I know - and those in attendance be warned: Do NOT take a knee when Spencer precedes his hate speech with the requisite sliming of our National Anthem. Take a knee and you’re likely to get deported - or at least never play another down for the Gators’ football team.

WBH

(reprinted with permission)
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