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#302991 - 09/05/17 03:34 AM What's the value in diversity of opinion?
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40554
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

If I already know that my values are in polar opposite realms from CONservative values, what's the point in listening, and even having to appreciate, their "diversity" of opinion?
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#302995 - 09/05/17 04:06 PM Re: What's the value in diversity of opinion? [Re: pdx rick]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1586
Loc: Middle, USA
I sometimes listen in to find out what spoon-fed pablum the cousin daters are swallowing.


Edited by Spag-hetti (09/05/17 04:07 PM)
Edit Reason: spellin' agin
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#303005 - 09/06/17 12:33 AM Re: What's the value in diversity of opinion? [Re: pdx rick]
matthew Offline
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Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 319
'

Americans are vociferous in their support of free opinion --- and then squash it whenever it rears its ugly head.

.
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#303014 - 09/06/17 03:49 PM Re: What's the value in diversity of opinion? [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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It is much easier to confront ugliness in the open than in the dark. I am a great believer in the statement "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".* (I had a bumper sticker that paraphrased it - I may not agree with your bumper sticker but will defend with my life your right to stick it).

While I am antifa in my sentiments, I am against provoking violence. Words hurt, but they don't kill. On the other hand, force needs be met with force. The proper approach is disarmament. If the force of words is insufficient, oh well, you didn't have a strong enough argument. You cannot, however, let intimidation win. Even if it's from the White House.

* Evelyn Beatrice Hall, often misattributed to Voltaire.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

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#303017 - 09/06/17 06:55 PM Re: What's the value in diversity of opinion? [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7094
Loc: North San Diego County
Antifa is doing what the police SHOULD be doing. And I say yes, that includes beating Nazis senseless when they attack somebody. Marching in full regalia with clubs and shields chanting about Jews is just provocation. They are looking to start a fight. But when they assault people, that's taser time.

Look at the police in Charlottesville videos. They are just standing there for the most part. I want Nazis to be afraid to put on their uniforms and march in public. If they need lasting physical injuries to remind them not to come out of their closets, so be it.

What next? A big pedophile rights demonstration? Cannibals demanding living donors? Some things are just beyond the pale, and we shouldn't tolerate them. If Nazis and the KKK want to celebrate their screwed-up values, they should have to go and do it Burning Man-style out in the desert where polite society doesn't have to see them.

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#303022 - 09/06/17 11:47 PM Re: What's the value in diversity of opinion? [Re: pdx rick]
matthew Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 319
'
I am very suspicious of these so-called "antifascists". Their antics make me suspect that they are agents provocateurs engineered by Nazoid Ruling Class elements. American history is full of incidents where the Establishment has created agents provocateurs to make their opponents look bad.

In a country like the USA, where militaristic corporate oligarchs control the main avenues of news and indoctrination, it is supremely unproductive to employ violence against Ruling Class tyranny, no matter how much it might be justified.

The owners of the Media Monopolies can twist any such events to their own evil ends, no matter what the justifying facts might be.

Only Gandhian pacific non-violence, as painful as it might be to endure, can make headway against the violent military and propaganda power of the Oligarchy --- at least, until society's breaking point is reached, as it was in the French and Russian Revolutions.
.
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Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of Americans

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#303026 - 09/07/17 01:32 AM Re: What's the value in diversity of opinion? [Re: matthew]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7094
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
agents provocateurs engineered by Nazoid Ruling Class elements


That's not at all what I read by Dahlia Lithwick, Slate's Supreme Court columnist and resident of Charlottesville. She interviewed dozens of clergy afterwards who credited Antifa with saving their lives when Nazis attacked them. All they were doing was standing in front of their churches and synagogues to keep them from being invaded and trashed. Antifa people were not aggressive and did not fight unless they were attacked. And that's why I say they were doing what the police should have been doing.

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#303029 - 09/07/17 02:07 AM Re: What's the value in diversity of opinion? [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40554
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

The CONservatives petitioned WhiteHouse.gov to list antiFa as a terrorist group. They were crowing over the weekend that it was been accomplished.

I don't see anything about that being done. But "they" said the FBI has classified antiFa that way.

...anything to counter-balance their thousands of rightwing terrorist groups on the FBI list.
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#303030 - 09/07/17 02:30 AM Re: What's the value in diversity of opinion? [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12726
Loc: Whittier, California
Meanwhile KKK and the Nazis are NOT on the FBI list, are they?
What thousands of right wing groups are on that list?
I doubt even ten right wing groups are on the list.
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The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#303031 - 09/07/17 04:15 AM Re: What's the value in diversity of opinion? [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40554
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Meanwhile KKK and the Nazis are NOT on the FBI list, are they?
What thousands of right wing groups are on that list?
I doubt even ten right wing groups are on the list.

I'm too lazy to link everything. Here are the Google results. smile
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#303036 - 09/07/17 06:07 PM Re: What's the value in diversity of opinion? [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7094
Loc: North San Diego County
Remember, the First Amendment means the government can't prevent your free speech. It doesn't mean that somebody won't punch you in the mouth if you use "fighting words". Juries even let them off sometimes, if they dislike what you said enough.

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