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#303341 - 10/04/17 12:49 AM Re: Las Vegas Massacre [Re: logtroll]
matthew Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 319
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Who?

Trump --- LOL
.
_________________________
Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of Americans

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#303345 - 10/04/17 05:26 AM Re: Las Vegas Massacre [Re: matthew]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7136
Loc: North San Diego County
I really think the only thing that can make Congress do anything is if somebody gets a machine gun in their chamber and blows away a bunch of Congressmen. And I do think it will happen. They've passed every law to permit it. Made sure that anyone can get a gun or 12 guns. Even crazy people.

What they have also done is to make it much more likely a White guy (with money and no criminal record) will be the one to do it, simply by creating a society in which Black men are more likely to have a criminal record that prohibits gun ownership.

I think Paddock may be the perfect example: Not criminal, not crazy, not religious, not political. The only indicator that he was going to commit a mass shooting was the guns themselves. Sure guns don't kill people, people do. But especially a person who buys multiple bumpstocks, multiple semi-automatic weapons, and lots of ammo.

Maybe this pattern of purchases should get you on a watch list, and when you move all those guns to someplace other than your home it should trigger some kind of alarm.

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#303347 - 10/04/17 11:30 AM Re: Las Vegas Massacre [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40624
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Maybe this pattern of purchases should get you on a watch list, and when you move all those guns to someplace other than your home it should trigger some kind of alarm.

Law Enforcement found some more guns at a mountain home that Paddock owned. The total amount of long-guns owned by Paddock is now 47. That is ridiculous! mad
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#303348 - 10/04/17 01:48 PM Re: Las Vegas Massacre [Re: pdx rick]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1593
Loc: Middle, USA
If, according to GOP NRA lackeys, it is indeed too soon after the Las Vegas massacre to discuss gun regulation, I wonder if it is too soon after Sandy Hook, or the Pulse nightclub, or Columbine. How long of a pregnant pause must there be?


Edited by Spag-hetti (10/04/17 01:48 PM)
Edit Reason: added preposition
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#303349 - 10/04/17 03:14 PM Re: Las Vegas Massacre [Re: matthew]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15566
This "is not" a "machine gun": Bump Fire Watch the embedded video. That's one of the weapons we're dealing with.

Imagine if Steve "Fortified" Scalise's shooter had obtained a slide stock... That's the second retiree-aged shooter that engaged in a mass shooting this year... Is this a trend?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#303351 - 10/04/17 05:20 PM Re: Las Vegas Massacre [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15566
My son sent two tweets, the first confused, the second clarified:
Whenever I hear "not the right time", I want to respond "Fine. Let's reschedule. Tell me the right time and I'll mark it on my calendar."...
Then:To expand on this: On average there's more than 6 mass shootings every week.(https://t.co/QKN9KmhkzC) When's a better time than now?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#303355 - 10/04/17 08:15 PM Re: Las Vegas Massacre [Re: matthew]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1758
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I am having a problem with the entire gun thing and think some things are being missed. The first is the second amendment itself. It goes like; "A WELL REGULATED MILITIA, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." I am confused about the "well regulated militia" thing. Apparently this is completely ignored, then, again, maybe not. On the other hand apparently Congress CAN regulation guns? (then all gun owners are part of a well regulated militia?) Basically, as far as I can tell the congress is, by the constitution to regulate said militia (are are not doing a very good job of it).

Then there is the NRA thing. The NRA thing is a creature of the gun manufacturers. Dues paying members are there to help the gun manufacturers pay for the NRA but the organization itself remains in the hands of the gun manufacturers. Basically, this is not so much about having and using guns but SELLING MORE guns, and related stuff. The problem is, I think, with the members who think that the organization is for, and run by, themselves - they are, sadly, mistaken. I am basing this on the simple fact that the organization has received, literally, millions of dollars from the gun manufacturers. Then there is the money that the US army 'contributes' as well (this one has always given me some bit of humor). Just seems reasonable that them that pay for something get to have their say in that something.

It also seems, as far as I can tell, that we have decided to yet again ignore what other nations have done successfully, and the simple fact that regulation works (Australia is a fairly recent example of gun regulation which worked). The arguments against seem a bit like distributing nuclear bombs and, then, if somebody sets one off its the person who set it off at fault? (ie. its not the fault of the bomb so its gotta buy the doer)

Just saying............

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#303356 - 10/04/17 10:21 PM Re: Las Vegas Massacre [Re: matthew]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7136
Loc: North San Diego County
An awful lot of these guns used in mass shootings are guns legally purchased. Maybe part of that "well regulated" aspect of the 2nd Amendment should be that the government is entitled to know where every one of them is at all times. To that end, we could just put a tape-on RFID chip on every gun of every type. That way venues (like hotels) could have RFID readers that automatically detect and track weapons brought through their doors and elevators. RFID chips cost pennies and the readers are just a few dollars. We could make it a felony like filing off serial numbers to possess a gun without an id tag. If we made it law, everybody but criminals would get tags, but that is great because it turns unregistered weapon possession charges into a prison offense. Criminals would begin to think carrying an untagged gun is just an automatic prison term.

Then, a hotel could detect when somebody is bringing guns in and ask to see their concealed carry permit, or call SWAT if somebody brings a number of guns in.

This is one thing that actually has a technological fix.

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#303361 - 10/05/17 03:14 PM Re: Las Vegas Massacre [Re: matthew]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15566
The National Rifle Association was not the radical organization it has become until a coup in 1977. It had supported the National Firearms Act (which banned machine guns and sawed-off shotguns), the Federal Firearms Act and the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), which together created a system to federally license gun dealers and established restrictions on particular categories and classes of firearms. Wikipedia

It wasn't until the 1960's and the Black Panther movement that gun-carry rights became a "thing" (The Secret History of Guns - the Atlantic), although it had been discussed when the 14th Amendment was debated. The Panthers inspired California to ban the practice.
Quote:
Republicans in California eagerly supported increased gun control. Governor Reagan told reporters that afternoon that he saw “no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.” He called guns a “ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will.” In a later press conference, Reagan said he didn’t “know of any sportsman who leaves his home with a gun to go out into the field to hunt or for target shooting who carries that gun loaded.” The Mulford Act, he said, “would work no hardship on the honest citizen.”
My how times have changed. Gun control has, historically, been used to suppress minorities. And now gun advocacy is used for that purpose.

_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#303375 - 10/06/17 09:53 PM Re: Las Vegas Massacre [Re: matthew]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1758
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
If you really want congress to do something how about letting the A.T.F (Alcohol, tobacco, firearms) have a computer. Right now, they have masses of data but none of it is in a computer because the elected class deemed that they shouldn't have any computers to deal with that data. Its great for providing jobs (they are trying to do it all by hand) but - well, you know.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/26/us/leg...-gun-crime.html

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