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#302934 - 08/31/17 08:25 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: Spag-hetti]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1593
Loc: Middle, USA
Quote:
I said:
I thought presidents could only pardon people convicted of felonies. Arpaio's crime was a misdemeanor, wasn't it? I probably have it wrong.


I was right about being wrong. Presidents can pardon federal crimes but not state crimes or civil suits. So the state could bring charges against Arpaio, and if he is convicted, it sticks.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#302935 - 08/31/17 08:49 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: rporter314]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3755
Loc: Eugene, OR
This article might help make sense of things. The Trump part comes later on:

Quote:
Each of us is on a spectrum somewhere between the poles of rational and irrational. We all have hunches we can’t prove and superstitions that make no sense. Some of my best friends are very religious, and others believe in dubious conspiracy theories. What’s problematic is going overboard—letting the subjective entirely override the objective; thinking and acting as if opinions and feelings are just as true as facts. The American experiment, the original embodiment of the great Enlightenment idea of intellectual freedom, whereby every individual is welcome to believe anything she wishes, has metastasized out of control.

From the start, our ultra-individualism was attached to epic dreams, sometimes epic fantasies—every American one of God’s chosen people building a custom-made utopia, all of us free to reinvent ourselves by imagination and will.


How America Lost Its' Mind
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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#302936 - 08/31/17 08:58 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: Ken Condon]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3755
Loc: Eugene, OR
And then reflect upon this:
Quote:
Six out of 10 of those who approve of President Trump’s performance, or about 25% percent of the American public, say they cannot “think of anything Trump could do, or fail to do,” that would make them disapprove of him.

Something about shooting someone on a street........
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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#302937 - 08/31/17 09:35 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: Ken Condon]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13837
Loc: Florida
Quote:
they cannot “think of anything Trump could do, or fail to do,” that would make them disapprove of him.


Just give it a little more time. It's early yet and the Obama economy is still going strong. When it starts to hit them in their pocketbooks and there's no other place to point a finger...

They already know he's an idiot and a failure, but he's their idiot and failure so they'll stick with him until the grits hits the pan. Then they'll drop him like a hot potato.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#302938 - 08/31/17 10:09 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6234
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Were that should be true and valid but I suspect those conclusion would only apply to rational folks, not true believers. They will defend and excuse something along the lines of .... everyone but Mr Trump is lying, etc

How can you argue or discuss anything with true believers
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#302939 - 08/31/17 11:14 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7148
Loc: North San Diego County
I think his supporters who are at the bottom of the economic ladder will continue to support him: They have more of less nothing and Trump's ineptitude won't hurt them. They will still have nothing no matter what he does. Maybe a little enjoyment out of his anti-elite nonsense, like watching WWE wrestling.

But his working class supporters WILL be affected. They will suffer real loss of income, health care access, education opportunities for their kids, mortgage interest and other deductions, etc. They will notice and start placing the blame where it lays. Hard to blame Obama, Clinton, or Democrats when Republicans are running everything.

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#302944 - 09/01/17 01:40 AM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6234
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I agree that his "soft" supporters will eventually see him for what he is and start looking for something better.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#302962 - 09/03/17 03:19 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15572
But would they recognize what "better" looks like?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#302963 - 09/03/17 04:24 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8653
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
But would they recognize what "better" looks like?


I'm dealing with something of this nature but on a completely different subject, and this comment turned on a lightbulb (or maybe a light emitting diode...).

It has to do with the importance of context. If you see a problem (I see two in current conservative ideology of problem solving by destruction, and liberal ideology of wishful thinking) and want to fix it, you first have to identify the what and why of the problem, so you know what to work on. Using the right wing as an example, since it is the more actively toxic, in my opinion, the context of what "better" is always takes right wingedness as a given. This is a cultural tumor that was intentionally implanted and nurtured by what has now become the new Republican Establishment, beginning it's clear emergence with Newt Gingrich, and fed with endless lying propaganda since.

The tumor is now grown so big that in the last election, there were no GOP candidates on the "good" side of the street, so contextual "better" was still really bad.

(I guess I just identified the POTUS as a huge malignant tumor.)

On the Democratic establishment side, I'd say we have a very large benign tumor.

Understandably, lots of people are vaguely aware of this problem, but "anybody from our party" should not be a given in the contextual equation. There should be some real standards set out that candidates need to meet. I heard a snippet of an interview with Richard Dawkins yesterday, in which he said something like there should be evidence of qualifications relevant to the job presented regarding political candidates.

We've got some tumors to excise, folks, and need to graft in some healthy tissue.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#302964 - 09/03/17 04:40 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15572
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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