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#303546 - 10/24/17 12:08 AM Gun Control
joebialek123 Offline
stranger

Registered: 12/20/16
Posts: 3
The second amendment of the United States Constitution states:

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Obviously, the need for a state militia has been replaced by the National Guard and Coast Guard, whereby trained military personnel are entrusted with the defense of this country against domestic enemies. Their weapons are tightly controlled and safeguarded.

The only two reasons for a citizen to own a firearm are for hunting or defense of the household from intruders. In either case, ownership of a handgun, shotgun or rifle is more than adequate to satisfy these purposes. There is absolutely no need for any U.S. civilian to own any weapon more powerful or sophisticated than these.

Accordingly, all handguns, shotguns and rifles must be licensed and registered to the degree necessary to match weapon to owner at the click of a computer key. Furthermore, we must guarantee that the mentally ill do not gain access to them under any circumstances. Finally, if we had prohibited the purchase of more sophisticated weapons, several innocent victims would not have died or been harmed at shopping malls, college campuses, Congressional meetings, churches and now concerts. We as a country must deal with this issue immediately lest our society fall back to the days when everyone carried a holster.

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#303547 - 10/24/17 12:25 AM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13828
Loc: Florida
Quote:
We as a country must deal with this issue immediately lest our society fall back to the days when everyone carried a holster.

Too late, Joe, we're already there. Maybe even past "there". Back in the wild wild west, men were not obsessed with guns. They didn't collect them or fetishize them.
I don't know if there's any way to ever stuff that Genie back in the bottle.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#303548 - 10/24/17 02:46 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8631
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
At least the Las Vegas Massacre got the NRA behind banning automatic weapons and we got a bump stock ban.

rolleyes
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#303549 - 10/24/17 08:53 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7095
Loc: North San Diego County
Welcome to ReaderRant, Joe!

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#303551 - 10/24/17 09:43 PM Gun Control
joebialek123 Offline
stranger

Registered: 12/20/16
Posts: 3
The second amendment of the United States Constitution states:

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Obviously, the need for a state militia has been replaced by the National Guard and Coast Guard, whereby trained military personnel are entrusted with the defense of this country against domestic enemies. Their weapons are tightly controlled and safeguarded.

The only two reasons for a citizen to own a firearm are for hunting or defense of the household from intruders. In either case, ownership of a handgun, shotgun or rifle is more than adequate to satisfy these purposes. There is absolutely no need for any U.S. civilian to own any weapon more powerful or sophisticated than these.

Accordingly, all handguns, shotguns and rifles must be licensed and registered to the degree necessary to match weapon to owner at the click of a computer key. Furthermore, we must guarantee that the mentally ill do not gain access to them under any circumstances. Finally, if we had prohibited the purchase of more sophisticated weapons, several innocent victims would not have died or been harmed at shopping malls, college campuses, Congressional meetings, churches and now concerts. We as a country must deal with this issue immediately lest our society fall back to the days when everyone carried a holster.

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#303554 - 10/25/17 02:36 AM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40554
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: joebialek123
The second amendment of the United States Constitution states:

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Obviously, the need for a state militia has been replaced by the National Guard and Coast Guard, whereby trained military personnel are entrusted with the defense of this country against domestic enemies. Their weapons are tightly controlled and safeguarded.

The only two reasons for a citizen to own a firearm are for hunting or defense of the household from intruders. In either case, ownership of a handgun, shotgun or rifle is more than adequate to satisfy these purposes.

Bow Great post. And, welcome to Reader Rant. smile
_________________________
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#303555 - 10/25/17 02:46 AM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7095
Loc: North San Diego County
Looks like we have two of these threads that are the same.
[Noted and corrected - NWP]

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#303559 - 10/25/17 08:40 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12728
Loc: Whittier, California
Greger said it better than I can.
The folks in the days of the Old West knew the gun culture and lifestyle but it didn't resemble anything we see today by a long shot.
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#303564 - 10/26/17 06:38 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1740
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
How we deal with guns says, I think, a lot about who we are. We have, in the past few years, seen small children slaughtered, people in a movie slaughtered, people at an outdoor dance slaughtered, attendees in a night club slaughtered, etc. (the list of this stuff is long). After such occurrences we beat our breasts and cry out in outrage, for, maybe, a couple of weeks and then it all goes away and nothing gets changed. Yep, it says a LOT about who we are, it also says, basically, that as a nation we are unwilling to go against the NRA which is controlled and funded by the nation's gun manufacturers.

So, to recap, we seem to actually support this stuff or it would have been fixed by now, other countries have done so and can't even come close to our daily slaughter by guns. So, I think its fair to say that, basically, we don't care that innocents and children are regularly getting shot. If we don't care about something like that then the question becomes just what do we care about? Well, for starters anybody can have a gun, carry a gun (hidden or not). Better yet we can pack guns that are pretty close to those we use in war on use them on our fellow citizens. So, again, what do we care about? Well, we are considered to be more religious than most other countries (except for the muslim nations). We all know, of course, that religion is kinda against shooting one another but, in America I guess, things are not the same as other places. Its also considered, amongst other industrialized nations to be a more dangerous place than otherwise. Add in that we elected a president who has spent most of his tenure, so far, showing the rest of the world that your word means absolutely nothing and that we also seem to be alright with a leader that actually lies about 85% of the time. (I could show links this stuff but its really easy to find if you don't believe it).

So, our word is crap, we don't care about gun violence, thereby supporting those who need their guns for for violence, we are very religious but, generally speaking, are are also immoral (possibly even amoral. ie insane). I think what I am trying to say is that we have some really serious problems and its unlikely to change. Given our level of fear (high) we are kinda like a sick scared dog. Anybody who knows anything about dogs know not to mess with a sick scared dog. I think our standing in the world is rapidly approaching that of a sick scared dog. I am a bit elderly so, hopefully, I am not going to see where this is leading but, I think, its unlikely to be a good place to be in the end.

It may be of interest to note that anybody who reads this will, pretty much, disagree with most of the above because it just doesn't agree with how they think about themselves. Sorry, the facts are clear, if a majority didn't agree with this stuff something would have been done, a LONG time ago to fix the problems. That has not happened and this stuff is not getting better, its getting worse.

As usual - I wish us all good luck.................


Edited by jgw (10/28/17 06:27 PM)

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#303609 - 10/30/17 05:07 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13828
Loc: Florida
Quote:
if a majority didn't agree with this stuff something would have been done, a LONG time ago to fix the problems.

I'm not convinced that a "majority" agrees with this stuff.
Republicans control the Legislative branch but Democrats received more votes overall. Republicans control the Judicial branch due to corrupt partisan machinations by Mitch McConnell.
Donald Trump lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes and even that was dependent on assistance by a foriegn government and a divisive Democratic primary.
Gun lobbyists have pumped billions into keeping Republicans bound to counter-intuitive denial of any common sense gun legislation.
You use the term "we" a lot in your missive, jgw, and I disagree wholeheartedly. We would like to see some sensible gun legislation but our government is controlled by a rabid minority and corporate interests.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#303623 - 10/31/17 05:27 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1740
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
We shouldn't forget how the Republicans took over so many states. It was really quite simple for Them. They put all their eggs into the state basket, told their lies and won the elections. At the same time the Democrats were busy winning federal elections the Republicans were busily taking over states and gerrymandering the hell out of them. Then, suddenly, the dems realized what had happened, after the fact, and are now working to take back what they once had and its a battle all the way because they also allowed the lies to permeate all media to the point where people learned how the new reality was now their reality irregardless of common sense, personal interest, truth or even science.

I must get 20 emails a day from various groups on the left trying to scare me into giving them money even though they have yet to actually explain what, exactly their plans are, what their goals are, what they believe in, etc. They are, as far as I can tell dedicated to ignoring any and all claims from the right, selling causes instead of a life view, beliefs, etc. The right, on the other hand, are experts in ignoring any basics and moving right on to hot buttons to push with lies and a lot of money. (most of which the dems nobly try to ignore).

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#303624 - 10/31/17 06:33 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: jgw
We shouldn't forget how the Republicans took over so many states. It was really quite simple for Them. (SNIP)


That's some damn good observation and advice.
Shared on my page at Facebook (with YOUR attribution, of course)
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#303705 - 11/04/17 11:23 AM Re: Gun Control [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8631
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#303715 - 11/04/17 08:47 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7095
Loc: North San Diego County
It's actually a good way to get killed by the police. When they show up, they want absolute control of the situation. Non-police running around with guns look just like suspects.

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#303731 - 11/06/17 12:43 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6208
Loc: Highlands, Tx
it's too soon to talk about it

is it too soon for this mantra to die?????
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#303733 - 11/06/17 01:54 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: rporter314]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8631
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: rporter314
it's too soon to talk about it

is it too soon for this mantra to die?????

Sounds like a mantra for people who know they are on the wrong side of the debate.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#303734 - 11/06/17 04:45 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: rporter314]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: rporter314
it's too soon to talk about it

is it too soon for this mantra to die?????


Brought to you by the "No president should be allowed to seat a Supreme Court justice in the last year of their presidency" folks, or was it the "No Democrat should be allowed to seat a Supreme Court justice" folks?
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#303735 - 11/06/17 05:52 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1740
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
How about this. Contact your state elected to pass a law allowing only state residents to buy a gun?

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#303736 - 11/06/17 06:44 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7095
Loc: North San Diego County
Turns out the guy in Texas checked the box on his form in the gun shop that says: "No Convictions", even though he spent a year in jail for domestic violence.

Way to go, Texas! That's the NRA's version of a background check!

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#303737 - 11/06/17 07:11 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1740
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
How about this. Contact your state elected to pass a law allowing only state residents to buy a gun?

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#303755 - 11/07/17 08:28 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13828
Loc: Florida
Paul Ryan Defends His Call For Prayers After Texas Mass Shooting: ‘Prayer Works’
“It’s disappointing, it’s sad, and this is what you’ll get from the far secular left. People who do not have faith don’t understand faith, I guess I’d have to say. And it is the right thing to do is to pray in moments like this, because you know what? Prayer works. And I know you believe that, and I believe that and when you hear the secular left doing this thing, it’s no wonder you have so much polarization and disunity in this country when people think like that.”

Wishful thinking works just as often. I got nothing against prayer, in church where it belongs. In government I want to see meaningful legislation though.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#303758 - 11/07/17 08:58 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7095
Loc: North San Diego County
The right thing to do is to make damn sure the Armed Forces are reporting Court Marshal verdicts and domestic violence to the federal background check database people. They admitted today that they failed to do that in this case.

Paul Ryan is welcome to pray if he wants. But sometimes the answer to your prayers is: "NO" Prayer works, but only in the sense that it makes the person praying feel better. God is omniscient: He already knows what you want.

Jesus said VERY SPECIFICALLY that your prayers should be a private thing. Pharisees make a big deal about public prayer and Jesus hated those guys. I don't even think he would have approved of people gathering together and praying in groups.

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#303761 - 11/07/17 11:56 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8631
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Greger
Wishful thinking works just as often.


Like my old friend Jimmy H. always said, "Wish in one hand and shiitt in the other and see which one fills up first."
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#303782 - 11/08/17 08:58 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: Greger]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3738
Loc: Eugene, OR
“Faith” is a funny thing. The Texas gunman Stephen Willeford, the man who shot the church murderer, said he was scared but that his God protected him because he was doing the right thing. Or words to that effect.

That leaves me wondering- is this the same God that those church goers were praying to? Or does Mr. Willeford have a better God that listens and answers his prayers while “allowing” the church attendees to be brutally mowed down.

What am I missing?

Can anyone help me here?
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#303785 - 11/08/17 09:19 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7095
Loc: North San Diego County
Everybody ever in the history of Earth dies. God has no problem with death. I guess all those people in the church had to die so Mr. Willeford could do his thing and inspire us all.

He's a "good guy with a gun". I suppose it had to happen sometime. Even a blind pig finds an acorn every once in a while.

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#303794 - 11/09/17 12:18 AM Re: Gun Control [Re: Ken Condon]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8631
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
Can anyone help me here?

Dude, you are in my thoughts and prayers...
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#303819 - 11/09/17 07:44 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: Ken Condon]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6208
Loc: Highlands, Tx
God moves in mysterious ways

you have any tough questions?????
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#303825 - 11/09/17 09:29 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1740
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Here is something that could actually get done. Everybody write to their state legislators and ask them for a law that would restrict gun sales to actual citizens of that state (with photo id). This would go a long way in restricting people buying in one state and then selling in another - illegally.

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#303893 - 11/12/17 06:53 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15531
What Explains U.S. Mass Shootings? International Comparisons Suggest an Answer NYT. Short answer:
Click to reveal..
4.4% of world population owns 42% of world guns. In reality, that's really only 36% of US population owning 42% of firearms in the whole world.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#303895 - 11/12/17 08:01 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8631
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
That's right, we they still don't have enough guns!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#303942 - 11/15/17 05:53 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15531
After latest shooting, let's talk about mental health instead of you-know-what - opinion, ChiTrib.
Quote:
I'm m not going to bring up gun control.

We’re still under the “too soon” rule from last week’s massacre during Sunday service at a Texas church, so it’s certainly too soon to talk about guns in connection to Tuesday’s shooting spree.
....
So let’s just say mental health is a factor when it comes to murderous rampages.
....
What I don’t understand, then, is why the people talking about mental health in the wake of a mass shooting never seem to do anything to make our mental health care system better.
....
Tragedy. Outrage. Too soon. Mental health reform. Nothing. Repeat.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#303945 - 11/16/17 03:39 AM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7095
Loc: North San Diego County
How about we talk about domestic violence? Just about every mass shooter had several domestic violence complaints before his shooting spree. If we would just take every domestic violence complaint seriously and go take their guns and put them on the "no buy" list, an awful lot of these killings could be avoided.

It's also completely compatible with 2nd Amendment court decisions: You have a right to guns, unless you are crazy or a criminal. Even if domestic aggressors don't serve a day in jail, they should still go on the list and lose their guns. And losing your guns means you can't live in a house with somebody else's guns too, so no fair just transferring them to you wife.

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#303964 - 11/16/17 09:00 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1740
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Mental health, yep, someday? I can remember when Washington state took care of mental health. After the movie "The Snake Pit" there was a huge outcry about how gov institutions were treating their mentally ill inmates. Washington state had the solution, Shut down most of the state facilities and establish local mental healthcare facilities. The plan was to have each and every community install their own mental healthcare facility to take care of their own mentally ill. GREAT plan! Approximately 3 communities actually went along with this one. Port Angeles was one of the communities that did that. Now our 3rd largest employer are the mental health workers. They have several houses full of those with mental problems. I worked across from their main public facility and watched, every year, when they would bring in a bus, load it up with the patients who had been determined to be ready for re-integration in society. They load the bus, with these people, and then take them either to Seattle or Tacoma, open the door and wish everybody good luck. (its no accident that over 30% of the homeless are mentally ill). I have no idea what other states are doing but, I suspect, it will be similar.

What we are talking about is, basically, OUR gov's decision to ignore the mentally ill and, I guess, hope that not too many go off the rails and start killing folks (and, at the same time, seemingly making sure that the insane can find the guns to do the job). I once proposed that meds for the insane be made addictive to assure that the meds get taken. That was shut down because they feared they would not be able to deal with all the addicts if they found a cure for mental illness (really!). So, basically, we are all on our own and gov has, basically, just given up on mental illness. Just another example, I think, why The United States is not exactly peopled with kindly, caring, give a sh*t folks. (we are, basically, a nation of deplorables)

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#303973 - 11/17/17 01:02 AM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7095
Loc: North San Diego County
I'm not too worried about the mentally ill homeless. Usually the only people they hurt is themselves and it must be exceedingly rare that one of them has a gun or can afford to buy a box of ammo.

I worry much more about your angry and armed man who picks fights with everyone they perceive as weaker. There are LOADs of these aholes out there and often they can attract wives and girlfriends (who almost all are attracted to "tough guys"). In this population, some fraction will be so uncontrolled they will get in trouble for domestic abuse. And in that population, there is some smaller fraction who will lose it and kill somebody. And it that population there is an even smaller fraction that will become mass shooters.

So where does society intervene? It would be really safe and easy to say everybody charged with domestic abuse loses their 2nd Amendment rights (which IS federal law). But then you have to actually send police to go collect their guns, which is very dangerous for police. In fact, this is their most dangerous type of call!

Most every sentence document for domestic abuse, felony assault, etc. includes something that says: "You are not allowed to possess guns." But the courts usually just takes the criminal's word for it, that they have none! What we need to do is require a police search of a felon's residence BEFORE he is released and a strict 5 year sentence for any felon who does possess guns or anyone who helps them possess guns.

And that has to include anybody who makes a private sale of a gun to a felon. No more private sale loophole! If you want to make a private sale, you have to check the federal list, be sure of the buyer's identity, etc. or face hard time in prison. The safest option would be just to go through a licensed dealer for a few bucks.

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#303993 - 11/17/17 07:21 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1740
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
If you take a good hard look at the mass shooters you will find that most have been, or are, under the care of a specialist in mental problems. The guy who shot up the movie theater, for instance, was under a practitioner who was a specialist in the use of prescribed medicine to deal with the mental problems. Oh - and the guy was not taking his meds. You will find this is a regular problem with these people (shooters).

The actual problem, however, is the simple fact that the gun lobby, an artifact created by the gun manufacturers, has figured out a legal way to blackmail our elected class. This is, of course, the same elected class who continues to claim they are acting in the best interest of the citizenry. Until we get that one under control all this whining is for naught and simply displays the inability of the American voting public's inability to act in its own self best interest. In other words, if we can't stop ourselves from the regular self slaughter by guns then, I think, that says a lot about just who and what we are and its not exactly a pretty picture.

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#303995 - 11/17/17 08:56 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: jgw]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8631
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Two churchgoers accidentally shot in church while discussing the importance of bringing guns to church...
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#303998 - 11/17/17 11:37 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7095
Loc: North San Diego County
Sooner or later, "Good Guy with a Gun" will probably work, just as a matter of percentages. Even if it's just 1% effective, it will work sometime and then the NRA will go nuts.

Of course until then, pulling out your gun is a good way to be shot by the police. Somebody waving a gun around at a crime scene looks just like a shooter to them.

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#304006 - 11/18/17 12:54 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15531
"good guys" with guns give bad guys with guns cover. Two incidents subsequent to the Texas church shooting demonstrate that:
Quote:
A mass shooting in a Colorado Walmart store seemed to prove that point only days before the Texas massacre. A number of shoppers in the Walmart were armed, but the presence of their weapons complicated police efforts to locate the shooter, prolonging the manhunt by several hours.

Just as the presence of guns hindered police efforts in Colorado, the accident in Tellico Plains sparked a firestorm of misinformation. Witnesses reported panic spread through the church after the gun went off, leading some to believe there was an active shooter on the premises, something also assumed by the dispatcher who answered the call. It took nearly an hour for law enforcement to realize the nature of the incident — at which point nearby high schools and hospitals were on lockdown.
Think Progress.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304048 - Yesterday at 08:17 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15531
A First Look at 2018’s New Guns - American Rifleman.
Quote:

Every Fall the National Association of Sporting Goods Wholesalers (NASGW) hosts a trade show that offers attendees a sneak peek at some of the products slated for release in the new year. With national firearm sales leveling off, thanks to a gun-friendly administration taking office this year, manufacturers are dusting off some new and interesting models that have been tucked away for a time such as this.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304050 - Yesterday at 09:51 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: joebialek123]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6208
Loc: Highlands, Tx
"The Gun is an Innocent Victim" - Wayne LaPierre

"People Kill People" - anon

so if people did not have guns, then people would not be able to kill people with guns. While that sounded better in my head than it appears on the internet, the point is neither statement is valid. Guns were invented to kill people i.e people and guns are inextricably connected and can not be separated by pale excuses from the NRA for mass killings of innocent real victims.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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