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#303802 - 11/09/17 05:30 AM Al Franken 2020
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12728
Loc: Whittier, California
Al Franken for President.
Look, we have witnessed a reality TV show host as president, so knock off all the hand wringing about a former SNL comedy writer running for office because if you've bothered to watch even five minutes of Senator Franken in action, you should already agree that he is one dead serious mofo when it comes to doing the job for the country.
And he's DAMN GOOD at it, too.
Sell me on why he's a bad choice, I'm all ears.
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#303809 - 11/09/17 03:05 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
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I could go with Franken.
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#303838 - 11/10/17 09:29 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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He is a very intelligent person. He's written several books and unlike our glorious leader, he actually wrote them! I think Clooney has a better chance at winning, just because of America's current infatuation with celebrities. But Franken would probably do a better job as President, just because of his Senate experience and knowledge about how government works. He's not a lawyer, but I'm sure he would hire the very best and actually take their advice. He'd probably be on the phone with Bill Clinton and Obama every night, too.

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#303849 - 11/11/17 03:41 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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Joe Biden would be the better candidate. Look all of you HClinton supporters, you should have listened to me and supported Bernie, but....noooooooooooooooo - you didn't. rolleyes

Will you heed my advice THiS time? Hmm
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#303850 - 11/11/17 06:01 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Biden is 74. He'll be 77 in 2020, and 85 by the end of an eight year term. I think it might be a little too late. Al Franken is 66.

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#303856 - 11/11/17 09:04 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
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Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
I like Biden, but in addition to his age, I don't think he gets the deeper issues needing change, nor would be an activist for change (changing back to Blue for a while is not the change we need). Like Hillary, he would be a calm and rational captain of the ship of government, but not a leader into a regenerative way forward.

Franken, on the other hand, is strong and deep, and seems to have acquired the skills of managing a government. (I wonder if he ever masturbated in front of captive audiences or diddled liddle girls?)
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#303857 - 11/11/17 11:50 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Ujest Shurly Offline
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Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 232
Loc: Michigan, USA
While Senator Franken would be an interesting choice. I think we need to look to someone younger. Maybe Senator Corry Booker; he certainly has the energy and is a social activist, was the Mayor of Newark NJ during a real bad time in that city's history. Or Senator Duckworth; has experience at many levels of government, understands war like no other president since President Bush (41), if only she were a natural born citizen...

I'm sure we can find many more potential candidates.
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#303860 - 11/11/17 01:56 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
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The problem with Franken is, he's just too intelligent. He knows when to be funny, and when to be serious. He's a deep, deep thinker and loves the Constitution too much. He respects his office, the responsibility it requires, and the people he represents. He'd do what's best for the country rather than himself or his party. And he's humble. In other words, he's just not suitable.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#303862 - 11/11/17 02:21 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Spag-hetti Offline
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I loved his books. They were very well researched and still entertaining. He hired a staff of college students to check and double check everything he said. He definitely knows how to get all his ducks in a row and water tight.
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#303869 - 11/11/17 04:46 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Biden is 74. He'll be 77 in 2020, and 85 by the end of an eight year term. I think it might be a little too late. Al Franken is 66.

Ruth Ginsburg is 85 and doing a fantastic job.

Make Biden top of the ticket and Franken the VP. smile
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#303874 - 11/11/17 06:20 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
Greger Offline

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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13828
Loc: Florida
Quote:
While Senator Franken would be an interesting choice. I think we need to look to someone younger. Maybe Senator Corry Booker

Booker has compromised himself with a few of his votes. He's no longer on my short list. And he's black. Deny racism all you want but that's a strike against him right now.
Bernie and Biden are too old. Both would probably be capable of doing the job and both would probably do an excellent job as president, but I have some doubts about whether they are electable in 2020. Both should run, by all means, early primaries will determine whether they have the backing to go all the way or not.

Justice Ginsberg is a hero to liberals everywhere but we all know that she's not going to be around much longer. Perhaps it would have been best if she'd resigned at the beginning of Obama's second term when he could have gotten an equally liberal justice onto the bench.
The way things are looking it's entirely possible that Donald Trump will be the man to replace her.

Taking a "Goldilocks and the Three Bears" look at 2020, Booker, at 48, is probably too young and inexperienced, Biden and Sanders, too old.
Franken on the other hand might be "just right".
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#303876 - 11/11/17 07:14 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: logtroll]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 385
Loc: Upstate NY
I have long considered Franken a worthy presidential candidate with much needed Gravitas.

I remember him from his time on "Air America" with Rachel Maddow, while he was in the process of rehabilitating his reputation from SNL comedian, and other violations, one of which I accidentally encountered recently.

Although there is no record of Franken with public masturbation or diddling, there is, however, unfortunate video documentation of his participation/collusion in captive audience bestiality, or at least animal "husbandry" voyeurism. This damning episode is at least partially mitigated by Franken's intellectual dialog and gestures.

Al Franken Gorilla Love



I think he has made remarkable progress since then!

I do love the final frame, and I hope we will soon see such expressions on the faces of t-rump and associates when they meet their new prison friends!

My order of prefurances, after trump of course would be: Flynns, Sessions, Miller, Manifort, Bannon, Jarrad, Willbuur and too many to mention...

Tat
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Except that it's lonesome work
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#303877 - 11/11/17 07:25 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greger
Bernie and Biden are too old. Both would probably be capable of doing the job and both would probably do an excellent job as president, but I have some doubts about whether they are electable in 2020.

Bernie would have beaten Trump in 2016, and can beat Trump 2020. Biden could have beaten Trump in 2016, and can beat Trump in 2020.

Both are good, safe bets. We need a sure win. Hmm

As a younger Dem (than most of you) - we need older, wiser, heads to prevail in this election.



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#303882 - 11/12/17 04:53 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
Greger Offline

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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13828
Loc: Florida
Hopefully everyone we're discussing here will throw their hat in the ring in 2020. The voters will decide who is most exciting to them when the time comes. I'll likely pick a favorite and argue here in their favor but it really doesn't matter to me which one gets the nod, I'll vote for the Democrat.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#303883 - 11/12/17 04:55 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13828
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Both are good, safe bets. We need a sure win.


Hillary was pretty much considered a sure win. Right up until she didn't.
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#303885 - 11/12/17 04:58 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Both are good, safe bets. We need a sure win.


Hillary was pretty much considered a sure win. Right up until she didn't.

No. I told you guys all along that Hillary was vulnerable, because in the circles I travel in, she was not liked and those in the circles were not going to vote for her.

I wrote during the primary that HClinton was a very unlikable person.

Heck, I didn't even vote. I couldn't vote for her. No way, no how. mad

Having said all of the above, I would have accepted her winning the election a lot better than Donald J Trump's win.
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#303887 - 11/12/17 07:00 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Irked Offline
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Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 3461
Loc: Somewhere out in left field
Come on! Gotta let people have their dreams, amirite? Especially when those dreams help the Right side solidify their natural position of control.
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Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan

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#303889 - 11/12/17 10:32 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7094
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Bernie would have beaten Trump in 2016, and can beat Trump 2020. Biden could have beaten Trump in 2016, and can beat Trump in 2020.


Bernie would have done great with all the younger voters, but everybody age 50 and up lived through the Cold War and would NEVER EVER vote for a Communist, and they all believe that Socialist = Communist. And of course he was the Republican's fondest wish: A Presidential candidate they could beat so badly no Demcrats would win election in 2008.

But Biden, maybe: If all the Bernie Bros got off their collective asses and bothered to vote for him. I suspect though that they would all be sore losers and stay home.

Actually, a Sanders win would have been interesting, mainly: Who would Putin support? He obviously is not a Trump supporter, per se, because the Russian Troll Farm began attacking Trump immediately after the election. He just wants America in chaos and ruin. Would the old head of the KGB support the Socialist candidate (which he would obviously see as Russia-friendly) or stick with the plan to support the worst possible candidate.

Obviously, Putin has not thought this through: A stable, rational US administration does not wake up one morning and decide today is a good day to nuke Russia.

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#303891 - 11/12/17 04:08 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Who would Putin support? He obviously is not a Trump supporter, per se...does not wake up one morning and decide today is a good day to nuke Russia.

Actually, Putin IS a supporter of Trump per this thread. For whatever reason(s), Trump initiated all of his love for Putin on his own - and all Putin has to do is sit back and bask in its glory. Putin didn't have to lift a finger.

I think the real reason Trump kisses Putin's butt is so that Trump can build "Trump Hotel Moscow" - a dream that Donald J has had since the early 1990s.

I'm seeing, and learning, that everything that Donald J says and does, is only to benefit Donald J in some way. Hmm
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#303899 - 11/12/17 10:41 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7094
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Putin IS a supporter of Trump


No he is not. I saw a news segment where they were looking at internet activity of the Russian Troll Farm. These are the people who came up with solid numbers of the millions of posts the Troll Farm made. The day after the election they started to post about how unqualified Trump is. Their mission is to see that America has the worst possible leader AND NOW has no confidence in him. They want a weak America and they have been very successful so far.

Most people think the President is a pathological liar, insane, or a Russian agent. Or maybe all three. Good work, guys!

Putin kissing up to Trump on state visits is just window dressing. This is the former head of the KGB. You have to look at what he is actually doing, not what he says.

Look at 4chan, to see what they are doing: Almost all Trump hate threads now!

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#303903 - 11/12/17 10:56 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8631
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
I'd like to see an Al Franken, POTUS, and Jill Stein VPOTUS ticket.
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#303905 - 11/13/17 12:54 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12728
Loc: Whittier, California
You'd have to go to Jill's base of operations, which appears to be a dinner table
with Vladimir Putin.

_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#303906 - 11/13/17 01:05 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8631
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Yeah, but the bumper stickers would be badass!
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#303907 - 11/13/17 01:44 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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Oh the Jill Stein that had dinner with Putin and is also linked to that infamous June 2016 Tump Tower Russian Lawyer meeting? rolleyes

Yeah...that's using the old noggin to make smart choices. coffee
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#303912 - 11/13/17 03:27 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
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Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Yeah, but the bumper stickers would be badass!

Franken/Stein 2020
Click to reveal..
I can’t believe I had to explain that one...
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#303913 - 11/13/17 04:12 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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...if you're in 3rd grade. crazy
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#303954 - 11/16/17 07:09 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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Welp, Al Frankin had an accuser come out due to a gropping incident in 2006 prior to becoming a Senator in 2008, and the Republicans want an ethics committee investigation.

This is tit for tat because of Roy Moore, I am sure. smile
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#303956 - 11/16/17 07:21 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
Ken Condon Offline
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Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3738
Loc: Eugene, OR
Quote:
This is tit for tat

Indeed
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#303958 - 11/16/17 07:53 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
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It's going to go away. He apologized. He's a champion for women's rights. He'll have plenty of defenders. But, it's cover for the right wing lie machine.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#303959 - 11/16/17 08:19 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 385
Loc: Upstate NY
Bad dog Rick! I guess the threat/effects of tutoring have not been effective in preventing purrsonal attacks!

TAT
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Except that it's lonesome work
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#303960 - 11/16/17 08:27 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Ken Condon]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 385
Loc: Upstate NY
Bad Monkey! Clearly way too old for "tutoring" to be effective! Maybe we will have to resort to shocking the monkey!

Rat a TAT TAT

_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#303962 - 11/16/17 08:59 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Posts: 40554
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#303963 - 11/16/17 09:00 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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Welp, celebs are calling for Al Franken's resignation - even Kathy Griffin all all people! rolleyes
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#303967 - 11/16/17 11:47 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
Spag-hetti Offline
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Posts: 1586
Loc: Middle, USA
I hope the guy who took the picture shows up to say Franken didn't actually touch her ... not even through the flak jacket. He was a comedian and I think it was joke. And I think the tongue thing was a joke, too; he wasn't trying to seduce her. But I understand how it could gross her out.

Dang.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#303968 - 11/17/17 12:15 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7094
Loc: North San Diego County
It was in front of lots of other people, too. In particular the stage kiss was in front of a whole USO audience, so I doubt she felt threatened. It's not like she was 14 and in some shack in her underwear, with threats. There is a huge difference between fearing rape and thinking somebody is obnoxious.

And I think you have to remember that Al was a a comedy writer and on a USO tour, which is essential a mix of burlesque comics and busty pinup girls. I bet he didn't even touch her breasts in that photo because she did not wake up. He obviously posed for that photo as a joke.

Unfortunately, not every joke works. Anybody who works as a comedy writer is going to have more than one failed joke. For which they should apologize, if anybody felt upset.

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#303969 - 11/17/17 12:16 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12728
Loc: Whittier, California
She already accepted his apology, and I'm not even going to worry about what the Right thinks of him because they're not going to vote for him anyway.
It's important what liberals think, and if they think he's unworthy, then they've caved to the Right wing propaganda smear that attempts to equate Franken's one-time misstep with a lifetime of serial assaults.
That makes liberals look awfully stupid, especially since the Right still elects serial assaulters anyway. They have zero moral high ground to stand on WRT Franken, ZERO.
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#303972 - 11/17/17 12:27 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
It was in front of lots of other people, too.

Exactly. There was an idiot CONservTARD on another side who kept posting a video of Joe Biden holding on to the teenage girl's shoulder while he was talking and the idiot CONservTARD kept writing that Joe Biden was "molesting" the girl.

I wrote: You can't molest someone if its in public and it's being recorded - molesting someone is a private thing where the guy exerts his power.

Then the CONservTARD kept labeling me a pedophile.

(Gawd I can't stand CONservTARDs. mad )

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#303974 - 11/17/17 01:06 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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You know, Rick. On most public forums you can get somebody banned for life it they make such a libelous personal attack.

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#303978 - 11/17/17 02:52 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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I was thinking, if Franken had just grabbed her by the pvssy, he could have been our next President!

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#303979 - 11/17/17 03:32 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I was thinking, if Franken had just grabbed her by the pvssy, he could have been our next President!

The Populists would be all over that idea!! smile
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#303980 - 11/17/17 03:34 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
You know, Rick. On most public forums you can get somebody banned for life it they make such a libelous personal attack.

Its' a Disqus comment section site - banning means nothing - the banned are back with a new account within 3 minutes. Easy, peasy. Hmm
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#303982 - 11/17/17 06:05 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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The bloated orange dotard weighs in on Al Franken. crazy
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#303983 - 11/17/17 07:15 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7094
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
the banned are back with a new account within 3 minutes.


Sometimes they are, sometimes they are not. Sites ban people by IP number as well as account. If he has a fixed IP number it is very difficult to impossible to get a new one.

At the least it does involve some shame and hassle.

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#303985 - 11/17/17 12:42 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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There's a Firefox add-on called Anonymizer that changes your IP address. You could be in Rows-of-Corn, IA, and have a French IP address.
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#303986 - 11/17/17 02:51 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
Spag-hetti Offline
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Hmmmm. Wonder how Roger Stone knew it was "Franken's turn in the barrel."

Machinations?
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#303987 - 11/17/17 03:36 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


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It's all going to come out in the wash shortly, and if it's genuine I'll have to eat my words and join the chorus demanding his resignation.
But his exit will not trigger an equivalent ousting of Republican lawmakers who are guilty. In fact, it may bolster them to the point where being accused of harassing women will become one of their "selling points" because I do not put it past the Republican Party to be able to mold opinion to that level of absurdity.
My point being that while it will indeed cleanse the liberal ranks of any ill gotten gains, it won't bring any promised "they should all go" style relief. Franken will be gone, others on the liberal side will also be forced out in his wake, but Trump, Moore et al will not only STAY but be reinforced.

I call that a pyrrhic victory.
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#303988 - 11/17/17 04:23 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


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A Coordinated Hitjob Against Dems is Underway, and Al Franken Won't be the Last
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#303989 - 11/17/17 05:18 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Bill Clinton.

It's all his fault.
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#303990 - 11/17/17 05:41 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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The advent of the Franken story has caused me to delve more deeply into my feelings and consider how I've thought about the topic over the years.

Bill Clinton was a dirty old man, but, at the time, I did not consider him to be a sexual predator. With the exception of one accuser, whose story was difficult to believe and was mercilessly promoted by agents who were dirtier than he was, I didn't exactly give him a pass, but I underappreciated the gravity of the situation.

Al Franken's transgression pales by comparison, but is not insignificant. Roy Moore's situation is far, far worse, and is still capable of rational response. Franken is contrite, admitted (at least in part) the inappropriateness of his actions, and has officially accepted being judged by his peers. Roy Moore is just an ass, and is a serial predator who is irredeemable. So too, is Donald Trump.

But Bill... Bill is probably just as bad. At the time, I didn't think he should be impeached, but I did (if I recall correctly) think he should resign. In light of subsequent events, however, I believe I was wrong.

Is it possible to differentiate offenses and punishments? I still believe so. In the absence of additional information, I think Al Franken should be censured, but not expelled. If, indeed, it's a single incidence and he has reformed his behavior,I believe in second chances. He has been a foremost advocate for women's issues and can be an example.

Most of the others deserve public condemnation and severe punishment. It breaks my heart to see icons I have revered being brought down (Spacey and C.K.), but it is the price that must be paid for this kind of behavior. What's appropriate for Ailes, O'Reilly and Weinstein, has to be appropriate for people I've admired.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#303992 - 11/17/17 07:14 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
jgw Offline
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Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1740
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I just wonder when its going to end or, where its going to end. Franken has apologized, denied nothing, apologized again and, then, again. His staff, previous and current has come out and say he is not behaving poorly and they have no experience he has in the past so, it seems this is a one off. There may be one other instance but there is no indication it was, or is, an ongoing problem.

He has broken no law and it was a long time ago. On top of all of that, unlike the offenders on the right, he has not (again) denied, and he has apologized. Its pretty obvious that there are powers that have decided that any guy who has acted poorly needs to be completely and utterly destroyed. I fear none of this is going to end all that well.

Its really time to to, at least, practice a bit of forgiveness in instances where the miscreant has admitted doing wrong and has believably apologized and the victim(s) have accepted said apology(s)

On the bright side the talk is now about "culture change". This is a really good thing as it has been a culture thing amongst the more 'manly' of the male persuasion and it looks as if that is actually changing.

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#304000 - 11/17/17 11:38 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Bill Clinton.

It's all his fault.

The nutjob con artist CONservartives have never gotten over it. Hmm
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#304001 - 11/17/17 11:45 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Spag-hetti]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
Hmmmm. Wonder how Roger Stone knew it was "Franken's turn in the barrel."

Machinations?

...from your link 'sghitti:

Quote:
So the question becomes, why would Roger Stone know about this accusation ahead of time? The same Roger Stone who a year ago in October predicted there would be a shocking revelation regarding John Podesta, and a day later Wikileaks began releasing his emails onto the web? Why would Infowars be privy to this ahead of time?

And furthermore, what’s the meaning of this tweet from Roger Stone’s other sockpuppet account?

I can not stand CONservTARDS. They are the most god-awful human beings to ever walk this Earth. mad
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#304002 - 11/17/17 11:50 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Loc: North San Diego County
Well, every man has tried to kiss somebody and found out it was unwanted, made a pass that fell flat, etc. If you are going to kick Franken out for that kind of thing, then I think you probably have to kick every other male member of Congress out: They have ALL done this. Even if they are gay they have done it, just to their same sex.

I think the context matters a lot. If the man was using his wealth, power, or position to intimidate the victim into cooperating, that is very bad. It is just about as bad as using physical force. I don't think Franken was doing any of that. Likewise, most of those Congressmen were not either.

Trump and Moore? Horrible abuse of power, wealth, and position.

"You tell anybody and no one will believe you, because you are a child and I'm the DA."

And Clinton did not do that at all. Lewinsky has admitted that she pursued HIM, she was an adult, and there was no coercion or retribution. The only thing he did was to cheat on his wife and maybe Hillary actually wanted him to "have people for that", like Jackie Kennedy.

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#304003 - 11/18/17 12:05 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
....then I think you probably have to kick every other male member of Congress ou...

If Franken goes, then every single Congressperson whose behavior resulted in the $15m payout that our government has paid-out on their bahalf, due their sexual harassment/assault, needs to go as well. mad , Hmm
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#304004 - 11/18/17 03:42 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Quote:
every single Congressperson whose behavior resulted in the $15m payout


Yeah, that's like every single one of them! If they weren't named in an official complaint, then I bet they were just lucky. If we start an investigation who knows where it would stop? This is why I bet they don't open an investigation. We already know all about Newt cheating on all of his wives with the next wife while still married to the former one. I've read about Newt and all the boys getting together for BJ's. And it goes back through history, EG. Thomas Jefferson screwing his pretty slave girls, Droit du seigneur, and so forth.

Men are dogs, and that's a big part of us being such a successful species. We wouldn't be here if all men didn't try to have sex with as many women as they can all the time! Let's just face it: This stuff is part of (hopefully) adult life. What we need to do is watch out for the predators who use wealth, power, or position to coerce women and girls into doing things they don't want to do. And of course men who rape 13 year old girls at their pedophile buddy's house and then buy their way out of the crime.

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#304005 - 11/18/17 04:17 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Ken Condon Offline
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Registered: 06/14/07
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Abso friiggin lootley!

I had my DNA run by National Geographic awhile back. I was hugely disappointed to discover that my DNA contained only 1.2% Neanderthal. I was certain my ancestors jumped the fence..... way, way, more that that. Apparently not.

Men are programmed to be horn dogs. It kept our species going. Problem is.. now we are supposed to be “respectable".

I suggest one consult Genghis Khan et al and ask him about reconciliation.

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#304010 - 11/18/17 09:47 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
Hmmmm. Wonder how Roger Stone knew it was "Franken's turn in the barrel."

Machinations?


Perhaps one reason Franken is so eager to investigate himself is because camera EXIF data, or the glaring sanitation of same, can become quite damning, especially when it becomes apparent that Photoshop might have been used.

"It's chaos, be kind"

See for yourself, save the actual photo, then enter it into the IEC EXIF inspector, then note the fact that while it was indeed TAKEN in 2006, it was first modified the night Norm Coleman conceded to Franken.
That means that someone has been sitting on this lil turkey since the night Franken finally was able to take his Senate seat.
And who Photoshopped it?

Something stinks, and it's starting to stink even more.
Roger Stone, perhaps?
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#304011 - 11/18/17 09:49 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


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Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12728
Loc: Whittier, California
All I am saying is, although Al Franken is guilty of having acted a bit like a pig dog on one occasion, maybe two, he's not a serial abuser or predator, and we must retain the ability to judge unlike things and underscore the difference between a clumsy man move and outright sexual harassment.

Every grown man on Earth is probably guilty of making a move on a girl that might have been over the top. Most of us get a drink tossed in our face, or an elbow, or we get a kick in the balls or something, or at the very least, we get told "NO WAY" and we lick our wounds and move on.
Once in a while we can't comprehend the notion that we misjudged, or we're careless, but on the whole we're not intending to hurt anyone and we'd be sorry if that was the case.
Al is guilty of behaving like a pig that day? Yeah most likely.

That's not the same as being a serial predator any more than a single unpaid parking ticket would be the same as a DUI enhanced multiple vehicular homicide with felony police evasion during a high speed pursuit.
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#304024 - 11/20/17 12:00 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12728
Loc: Whittier, California
I can almost compare Ms. Tweeden's situation with the current slaughter taking place on the tax issue in Congress. Sure, Americans wanted their taxes reduced, and Republicans are only too happy to oblige and so Americans awoke this morning to find that the House passed their tax bill, so yippee, hooray...only a moment later Americans also found out that the same bill also eliminates the deductions for medical expenses and student loan interest.

Suddenly those same Americans feel like they've been duped, okey-doked by some weasels who silently inserted a knife in their gut when they weren't looking.

If we assume that Ms. Tweeden felt odd during the skit, and then later thought about it and was angry, that's fine, and I have no problem believing her complaint was valid. Suddenly the next morning she finds out that the entire Republican party, along with Mssrs Stone and Bannon, are running with this as a full tilt political gambit to unseat a member of the Senate and she is their heroine and martyr, and the phone is ringing off the hook. She has to get an agent to handle the flood of calls and interview requests. She is being asked to press the issue and appear alongside people who want everything from the destruction of Al Franken to the exoneration of Roy Moore and everything in between.
Has Ms. Tweeden been asked for her opinion of Roy Moore yet?
Fair question, because I do not recall her offering one as yet, has she?

Is it possible that Ms. Tweeden, while harboring her own rather normal political ambitions, might just feel like she's been dragged head first into something she did not sign up for and something which she doesn't know how to extricate herself from without damaging her own career irrevocably?

And in the end, if there ARE any improprieties or false circumstances involved, I can guarantee you that they will all come out during an investigation.
That's both good and bad because more than likely Al Franken might just come out of it not only smelling like a rose, but the Republicans will have been made first class fools of by him in the process.
They can forget any future attempts to topple him via sexual innuendo if he ever decides to seek higher office, they will have shot their proverbial wad on this power play, and instead of getting the money shot, the door has swung open and it is THEY who are seated, prick in hand, firing salvos at the naked light bulb overhead (with thanks to Philip Roth)
But in the end that doesn't change the possibility that Ms. Tweeden's complaint might still have had some validity but none of that will matter anymore because in the scuffle, Ms. Tweeden will have become just another Republican casualty, a mere bit of collateral damage, another victim of standing too close to the rotational air output device while Roger Stone's fecal matter was being heaved ho.

And we will have made little or no progress in the most important issue of this whole messy affair, that of emphasizing the importance of respecting women's possession of their own body and their own dignity.
Because I guarantee you, for Republicans, that doesn't mean shee-it.
The only thing that matters to them is destroying Al Franken, and they will gladly sacrifice Leanne Tweeden in the process if they have to.
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The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#304026 - 11/20/17 12:17 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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#304028 - 11/20/17 01:25 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


They're not a book publisher, so maybe double check for accuracy.
I have heard that she will be reporting for Sinclair however.
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#304029 - 11/20/17 02:25 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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Sinclair = Mercers, Bannon, Breitbart, et al. (Hit job?) Hmm
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#304030 - 11/20/17 04:28 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pdx rick

Sinclair = Mercers, Bannon, Breitbart, et al. (Hit job?) Hmm


But there is no such thing as a BOOK deal for Sinclair because Sinclair is TELEVISION.
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#304031 - 11/20/17 05:33 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12728
Loc: Whittier, California
BELIEVE IT OR NOT..

I think I am actually feeling some compassion for Ms. Tweeden because I actually do believe that her beef was valid and that Al Franken did the stupid thing that night.
Here is what I do NOT believe:
1. That Al Franken should be forced to resign his Senate seat for his clumsy transgression in 2006.
2. Or that Al Franken is just as bad as a Harvey Weinstein.
3. Or that he doesn't deserve forgiveness.
Fortunately Leanne Tweeden, who is probably a reasonable person despite being a Republican, agrees with me on each of those three points. She said so on national TV the other day.
So yes, Franken needs defending because aside from that single dumb move, he's been a powerful advocate for women the whole time he has served.
And I am beginning to suspect that this whole circus has gotten away from Leanne Tweeden and is now out of her control, and that she was USED as a TOOL by the likes of Steve Bannon and Roger Stone, when all she wanted to do was make a single solitary point:
"Me too".

I can guarantee you the moment she is no longer useful to the Republicans, like if for instance if Al Franken emerges from this in good shape and newly chastened, they will turn on her or at the very least dump her or bury her, because Republicans don't give TWO SH!TS about sexual harassment.

The only reason they're cozy with her right now is because they see a chance to use her to unseat Franken.
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#304032 - 11/20/17 06:27 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7094
Loc: North San Diego County
Not so much to unseat Franken, as to draw a false equivalence with Moore and Trump: "See, they all do it."

The false equivalence of course being an unwanted kiss and a practical joke gone bad versus terrified multiple teenage victims, teens exposed naked in dressing rooms, women grabbed by the genitals, raped, etc.

Moore molested a 14 year old girl, and I am pretty sure Trump raped a 13 year old girl and in both cases they used their position or wealth to scare the victim into silence.

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#304033 - 11/20/17 06:17 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Welp, he did it again. rolleyes , mad , Hmm
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#304041 - Yesterday at 04:36 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
Spag-hetti Offline
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Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1586
Loc: Middle, USA
Is it me? Does this latest accusation seem a bit less believable than all the others we've heard about since Prescedent President Trump's first accuser stepped forward?

I'm trying to picture a state fair photo op. Everybody in line watching, along with your spouse, the photographer, those photo elves/escorters/hurryuppers, typical gawkers, pickpockets, etc. And there wasn't a crowd reaction? A punch in the nose from the spouse?

Tell me I'm not horribly biased because of my love for Al Franken.

Please.
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#304042 - Yesterday at 05:50 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12728
Loc: Whittier, California
A THIRD WOMAN has "come forward" claiming that Al Franken groped her.

Sen. Al Franken groped Arianna Huffington in 2000 photo shoot-NY Post

The so called victim:
"Al and I did a comedic sketch for Bill Maher’s Politically Incorrect called Strange Bedfellows, in which the whole point, as the name makes clear, was that we were doing political commentary from bed," Huffington told the Post. "This shoot was looking back at the sketch, and we were obviously hamming it up for comedic effect."
"I’ve been great friends with Al and his wife Franni for over 20 years and there has never been anything remotely inappropriate in our interactions," she said.

The photographer has DECLINED to COMMENT, and yet...

An "unnamed source" described the encounter:
"Franken was clowning around, but it really isn’t funny," said a source from the shoot. "That’s his tactic, pretend like it’s all a big joke. Arianna was pushing his hands away. He was groping her. There was some fun attached to it, but she wasn’t enjoying it. She definitely told him to stop and pushed him away ... "
REALLY??

Now you TELL ME, how DESPERATE are the Republicans when they are pushing "unnamed sources" to be "MORE OFFENDED THAN THE VICTIM" and what does that tell us?
If you're more offended than the victim, or if you're offended even when there IS NO victim, or the "victim" flatly states that they are not a victim and they are NOT offended, then it becomes a statement ABOUT YOU and not the victim at all.

So here we are folks, three so called victims, NONE of them are willing to demand his resignation, and one even insists she is NOT a victim at all.
This ruse, this setup, is getting mighty thin, and thinner by the second.
I say let the Republicans skate with this and keep [censored] that chicken till they choke on it.
At this point, Al Franken has already won but I still want that investigation, so he can jam the silver stake right into the chest of the Republican Party on live television.

At this point, I'm also saying that Republicans are MOCKING every woman who actually HAS been sexually harassed.

My fellow Democrats who jumped up and called for Franken to step down now look like complete imbeciles, and they deserve to.
Three claims, NO call from the victims for him to resign, and ONE victim is publicly insisting she wasn't even a victim at all, ever, and that Franken's wife was in on the joke.

So yes, to all my liberal friends who were ready to throw Franken under the bus, you now look like IDIOTS, and you should.
The Republicans are openly MOCKING every woman who has actually BEEN assaulted, and you're helping them.

Learn from this, please....they're just getting STARTED.
If we can't view things objectively, we will lose it all, and most of the damage will be self inflicted.
_________________________
The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth. - H. L. Mencken

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#304043 - Yesterday at 06:02 AM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40554
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
If you're more offended than the victim, or if you're offended even when there IS NO victim, or the "victim" flatly states that they are not a victim and they are NOT offended, then it becomes a statement ABOUT YOU and not the victim at all.

Yup, Bill Maher says that too. I agree.

Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
My fellow Democrats who jumped up and called for Franken to step down now look like complete imbeciles, and they deserve to.

Luckily no one from this site. laugh What kind of Dems do you hang-out with anyway? Hmm
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#304052 - Yesterday at 10:52 PM Re: Al Franken 2020 [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
If you're more offended than the victim, or if you're offended even when there IS NO victim, or the "victim" flatly states that they are not a victim and they are NOT offended, then it becomes a statement ABOUT YOU and not the victim at all.

Yup, Bill Maher says that too. I agree.

Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
My fellow Democrats who jumped up and called for Franken to step down now look like complete imbeciles, and they deserve to.

Luckily no one from this site. laugh What kind of Dems do you hang-out with anyway? Hmm


Just the ones I come into contact with on a daily basis, Rick.
It's not like I am buddy buddy with them, I just see them and hear them talking.
And yes, a few of them ARE close friends, and I ripped them a new one, too.
So sick and tired of the Democrat "gag reflex" whenever Repukes try to shove their member you know where.
We should be whipping out a buck knife and chopping it off before they even get close enough.
_________________________
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