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#303929 - 11/14/17 07:23 PM Re: the democratic plan to win [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1738
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Hillary lost for 2 reasons. The first is that she had been demonized for the last 35 years with nary a peep from her fighting back. I watched her on an interview the other night. I have come to the conclusion is the problem with Hillary is that she is, simply, too nice to be in the political game. She rarely speaks out, never defends, and is always kindly. She has been beat up for 35 years and its estimated that PRIVATE parties have spent well over 10 million dollars trying to nail her (they failed). I am sure there have been additional federal millions spent, by the Republicans trying to nail her (they failed too). Trump has now got Sessions all worked up about spending more money to nail her and he will, I suspect, fail too. Oh, the second reason she failed is that of bad decisions, based on overconfidence plus the Russians messing around. She simply didn't stand a chance and somebody should have known that.

Off the topic, in reference to the above interview. Hillary explained that she had been supporting a number of small, politically active groups. That support ranged from sending somebody with expertise in politics to help out to training. She said that these small groups are the future of the party and, on reflection, I think she is right. The dems have been ruled by the elderly (mentally and physically) a bit too long I suspect, and its time to shake things up and these small groups just might be the answer.

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#303957 - 11/16/17 07:50 PM Re: the democratic plan to win [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15528
The GOP tax plan, like the health care plan before it, is laser-focused on hurting Democrats and helping big business. Deductions for the middle class go away, benefits for students (educated voters) are targeted (This is what the GOP tax plan means for higher education CNN), local tax deductions go away (FU, NY & CA), mortgage deductions are limited (ditto), medical deductions go away (FU, unhealthy Americans), but GOP-favored deductions (like fake charitable deductions) stay (yes, I'm looking at you, Mr. President). If it's bad for Americans, it stays, if it's good for ordinary Americans, it goes. 'nuff said.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#303961 - 11/16/17 08:45 PM Re: the democratic plan to win [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1738
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I think that "hurting Democrats" is probably not right. You are assuming that they actually give a damn in either direction and, I think, you would be wrong. The results are exactly as you suggest but its not that they want to hurt anybody so much as they, literally, don't give a damn about anything but making the rich richer. Nothing else counts. I watched one of them on tv the other night and he actually started to explain trickle down and how good it is for everybody. Even the interviewer couldn't believe it but, there it was! The right is completely delusional about this stuff and simply believe what they are told. Its actually kinda scary.

My hope is that, if they actually pass this stuff, that their own base will rise up. I mean, stripping almost a trillion dollars out of healthcare alone should upset somebody. (half out of medicare and half out of medicaid - and bringing it to over a trillion with the recent Obamacare thing) is going to piss off all the seniors and all the poor. Of course, with the media simply ignoring the budget thing I believe its actually gonna happen and I fully expect those experiencing these cuts are going to rise up and its gonna get kinda messy. Hopefully their decision will only kill off a few thousand before it gets stopped and, again hopefully, we can survive it.

If it gets bad enough I wonder if our own military will fire on its own citizens.

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#303975 - 11/17/17 01:14 AM Re: the democratic plan to win [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7094
Loc: North San Diego County
I'm kind wondering about the Senate including language in their tax bill to get rid of the mandate of ACA. News people say "They want to do it because it will save them money they need for the tax cut."

But the mandate is like a tax penalty: People who don't get insured pay it to the government. How could getting rid of it do anything but COST the government money? This makes no sense and nobody seems to notice!

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#303981 - 11/17/17 05:00 AM Re: the democratic plan to win [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15528
I actually think I know the answer to this one, but the answer will make your head spin. It turns out that a significant number of the 13 million people who are likely to drop coverage actually get government subsidies to defray the cost of coverage. Yes, people who don't have to pay for their coverage are complaining that they're being forced to take it. It's asking to the Medicare Seniors complaining about "socialized medicine". So, the government saves $300 billion (over 10 years) because it doesn't have to subsidize those who drop coverage.

The problem with this analysis is this: EVERYONE'S cost are going to go up because the least sick will drop coverage (estimates are that there will be an immediate 10% across the board, and an additional 10% more each year). Because many of those people get government subsidies, the government will actually be paying more.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#303984 - 11/17/17 07:22 AM Re: the democratic plan to win [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7094
Loc: North San Diego County
And of course, the people who then get sick to the point of medical bankruptcy go on Medicaid and we all pay for them instead of an insurance company paying. This only works if you look at a subset of the whole picture.

The REAL Republican goal is to let poor people die instead of giving them medical care. But you run a news story about a hospital refusing to treat anybody and they die and we are all Socialists all of a sudden!

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#304022 - 11/19/17 10:00 PM Re: the democratic plan to win [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1738
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Interesting...... Don't forget, however, medicaid AND medicare are going to be reduced by 1/2 a billion annually until they have reduced both by approximately 1/2 a TRILLION each. I just went to the aarp site. They don't even mention the medicare cuts unless you look for them. So, if you are on medicare you not only have to fight with the politicians but the aarp! The media is in the same stance - they too are rarely, if ever, mentioning the cuts for healthcare. They are, however, talking about the CUTS to the ACA I find it all pretty strange. It also looks as if the Republicans are going to get their way. Then, of course, we are going to be gifted with all the outrage when both medicare and medicaid just kinda fade away.

I can remember when there used to be an organization call the Grey Panthers who would have gone nuts over this thing. Now, however, not only are the poor going to get wrecked (I think the logic goes something like; "Well, they don't vote so I don't care") but medicare is going to get stripped down drastically. I betcha, once that happens there are going to be a bunch of upset seniors who can't seem to be currently bothered with it all. How does it go? Something like; "We reap what we sow"?

Well, at least they are going to get gov out of medicare and medicaid so things aren't all that bad? (IDIOTS!)


Edited by jgw (11/19/17 10:01 PM)

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#304034 - Yesterday at 07:10 PM Re: the democratic plan to win [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1738
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Now we have been told that the budget and the tax thing is all about Republicans taking care of their 'donors'. This means that the Republicans are making their 'donors' richer so that they can give them even more money. I also found it interesting that reference to the Republican 'donors' stopped after approximately 2 days. Hopefully the left can wake up and attack on this one?

We REALLY need a constitutional amendment that simply says "money is not speech" which would solve a pile of problems with our system. They might also add another line that says "corporations are not individuals". If we could actually do that then the congress could proceed to actually put some regulations in place that would take care of this stuff. If/when the Dems win this should be at the top of their wish list.


Edited by jgw (Yesterday at 07:11 PM)

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