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#304046 - 11/21/17 07:43 PM Big Lies and Tax Cuts
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15681
I'm not sure how many citizens are being fooled by the tax arguments being offered by the GOP, but the audacity of the lies is astounding. The entire plan is based upon some of the biggest lies in history. Lies, Incoherence and Rage on Tax Cuts - Krugman, NYT.

Let us elucidate some of them:
1) Tax cuts are necessary to stimulate the economy. Initially, it should be noted that Trump keeps crowing about how good the economy is. If the economy is going so great, why is a stimulus needed?

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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304047 - 11/21/17 07:43 PM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15681
I'm just getting started: I had to post before my battery died.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304053 - 11/22/17 12:59 AM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6284
Loc: Highlands, Tx
" If the economy is going so great, why is a stimulus needed? "

dripping with rhetoricallity

Middle Class Tax Cut .... how many ways can they say that and really mean tax cuts for the top tax payers

pay attention to the not so clever way of them saying the middle class will receive an increase in wages ... anyone? .... if more people are working even at low wages that would mean the middle class as a whole is making more money ... that doe not help middle class wage earners but does increase the disparity between the middle class and the wealthy

What happened to each individual getting a wage increase
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#304055 - 11/22/17 07:05 PM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15681
So, Lie 2) was It's a Middle Class Tax Cut. As Krugman pointed out,
Quote:
Krugman argues that the GOP has always lied about its tax plans, but that Republicans' mendacity under Trump is "unprecedented." During the second Bush administration, Republicans similarly insisted that cuts would primarily benefit the middle class. That group did see a break in the form of a child tax credit, but their gains paled in comparison to those of the 1 percent, who profited handsomely from a lower tax rate and repeal of the estate tax.
...
"So what’s different this time?" Krugman muses. "As in the Bush years, Republicans are claiming to be offering a middle-class tax cut. But where Bush truly was cutting taxes on the middle class, just much less than he was on the wealthy, current Republican plans would raise those taxes on many lower- and middle-income families, even as they go down for the wealthy."
Alternet

Lie 3) Tax cuts Pay for themselves.
Quote:
Secretary of the Treasury Steve Mnuchin insists these tax cuts will finance themselves, despite all evidence to the contrary, while Budget Director Mick Mulvaney maintains that permanent tax cuts on multinational corporations are absolutely essential, for reasons unclear.
Republicans Can't Even Keep Their Lies Straight Anymore

But, Tax Cuts Don't Pay For Themselves.
Quote:
To combat arguments that such cuts will balloon the national debt, tax cut advocates have argued that the cuts could pay for themselves, largely through faster economic growth. Advocates point to tax cuts in 1981 and the early 2000s to make this case.

However, this claim is false. Tax cuts don’t pay for themselves.
And never can. "At best, tax cuts can finance a fraction of their costs through faster growth – and maybe not even that.... To do that, the economy would need to grow by $5 to $6 for every $1 of tax cuts." Tax cuts on corporations and the wealthy, moreover, do not stimulate the economy. "The actual growth effect of tax cuts would likely need to be even higher for two reasons. First, tax cuts would lower marginal tax rates and thus lower the revenue captured from additional economic activity. Second, tax cuts will likely add to the debt – at least in the early years – leading to both higher interest rates and a higher stock of debt on which interest is paid." Which leads to Lie

4) This Tax Cut Won't Grow the Deficit.
Quote:
The Trump administration, predicting tax cuts will set off an economic boom, dismisses the budget's projected $1.5 trillion deficit increase as overly cautious accounting. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin claims increased growth will create so much new tax revenue that it will reduce deficits and help pay down the nation's $20 trillion debt.

"It's going to be all growth," Trump told a Fox interviewer last week. "That growth can be staggering."
Trump's shiny tax-cut plan has a $1.5 trillion problem - CNBC.

As with the previous point, it is fiscally impossible for tax cuts to pay for themselves, much less reduce the deficit. Moreover, an economic stimulus when the economy is growing risks overheating the economy - increasing inflation, government outlays, and debt. That, my friends, is exactly what caused the crash of 2007-8, and the Great Recession (as well as the Great Depression of 1929).
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304056 - 11/22/17 07:43 PM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1794
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Its pretty obvious that the Republican cant on this is just plain baloney. They have, however, made absolutely no bones about what they are really doing, ie. taking care of their donor class (the big buck supporters). I also find it interesting that, in their effort to WIN, they are quite capable of rising above stuff like honesty, integrity, actually doing their jobs and all that useless stuff. After all,they need their jobs (at any cost! (screw the nation and take care of #1)

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#304060 - 11/22/17 09:10 PM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6284
Loc: Highlands, Tx
none of your arguments mean anything. Republicans want a tax cut .... they promised a tax cut and nothing will keep them from passing a tax cut regardless of consequences.

these guys are hellbent on ramming their belief system down the throats of every American. once Mr Trump signs the bill no Democrat will be able to repeal it or suffer grave consequences when they raise taxes.

Does anyone wonder why J Moore is so important to Mr Trump? $1B in tax relief when the bill is passed and signed into law.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#304063 - 11/22/17 09:58 PM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15681
Moreover, it's Robbing Blue States to Pay Red (NYT - Opinion).
Quote:
Much of the debate over the Republican House and Senate tax plans has centered on how they will shift income toward the affluent. But there is a second kind of redistribution in the plans — from Democratic blue states to Republican red states.

Call it the Republican two-step: redistribute upward, then sideways. The biggest beneficiaries are corporations and the rich regardless of where they are. But under the Republican plans, half of these big cuts have to be paid for in the first 10 years (the other half will be added to the national debt, increasing it by $1.5 trillion). And these “pay-fors,” as they’re called, are predominantly aimed at blue states.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#304065 - 11/22/17 11:19 PM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15681
I think I'm up to lie 5) Jobs. Its in the deceitful name. Corporate Tax Cuts Don’t Create Jobs, They Enrich CEOs - the Nation.
Quote:

US companies are already paying minimal amounts in corporate taxes, and the ones most likely under Republican theory to pour tax savings into job creation have instead been more likely to cut their workforce over the past nine years. The data shows that low corporate tax rates more often lead to increases in CEO pay and boosts for shareholders.
The con is based upon a grand prevarication: US corporations are overburdened by taxes. The reality is quite different:
Quote:

The average effective corporate tax rate in the United States, once deductions are factored in, is around 27 percent, putting it below the global average. If you limit the review to profitable corporations, the number drops to 19.4 percent. Corporate taxes as a share of GDP have fallen threefold since 1952, from 6 percent to 2 percent. Far from being overtaxed, corporations have carried an increasingly lighter burden.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#304070 - 11/23/17 04:32 AM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40730
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

If the economy is doing so well, as con artist CONservatives claim - why the need for permanent Corporate tax decreases to stimulate the economy? Hmm
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#304076 - 11/23/17 01:17 PM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15681
If one were to take all the worst ideas for tax reform - for the economy, socially, politically, environmentally, etc. - and put them all in one package, what you would get is the House GOP tax plan.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
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