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#304078 - 11/23/17 07:26 PM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2189
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
This might amuse (subject is taxes):
http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2017/1...bate-on-nov-28/

senators-cruz-and-scott-to-face-off-against-senators-cantwell-and-sanders-in-a-cnn-town-hall-debate-on-nov-28/


Edited by jgw (11/23/17 07:27 PM)

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#304080 - 11/23/17 10:30 PM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41064
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


From my understanding of what I am reading, student loan interest rates will no longer be deductible, but sending a child to a relgious private school will be. Also, mortgage deduction interest going away for loans over $500K. The average home in Seattle is now $750K - as a reference point.

Also read that owning a private jet will be tax deductible.

It seems that Trump's "tax plan" will benefit him the most. Hmm
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#304081 - 11/23/17 10:33 PM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: jgw]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41064
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: jgw
This might amuse (subject is taxes):
http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2017/1...bate-on-nov-28/

senators-cruz-and-scott-to-face-off-against-senators-cantwell-and-sanders-in-a-cnn-town-hall-debate-on-nov-28/

The last time Bernie debated the alleged Zodiac Killer last month, Bernie kicked-butt. smile



_________________________
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#304084 - 11/24/17 03:54 AM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41064
Loc: Puget Sound, WA



The thing is, since Trump became President, the GOPs lies have become more bald-faced, blatant, and obvious. Not only that, the GOP can't even keep their lies straight any more. Hmm
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#304087 - 11/24/17 08:52 AM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8063
Loc: North San Diego County
The thing is that Trump lies ALL the time. So everybody working for him thinks they should too. Then they get in front of a Congressional committee, an FBI agent, or a court and do it.

Buy bye!

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#304089 - 11/24/17 06:50 PM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6565
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I hate these kinds of "debates". As a student of mathematics, we got in front of class and present on chalkboard our "proof" of some claim. Imagine a class of cynics who would inspect every nuance of a chalk line to guarantee there would be no hand waving proofs of anything.

Economics (and therefore taxation) is not so easy to present "proof" of anything because of all the assumptions.

If these guys are simply presenting a best argument for policy considerations, then that would be ok. However when anyone pontificates that a tax cut will do X, Y, and Z, the moderator needs to put their feet to the fire.

I expect it will be another case of confirmation bias because the details of economic theory will for the most part not be valid.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#304093 - 11/24/17 08:33 PM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8063
Loc: North San Diego County
The whole idea behind that Republican holiest-of-holys The Laffer Curve, is that government revenue increases when tax rates go from high to lower, but then it goes on to say that government revenue decreases when tax rates go from low to lower. If you are on the right side of the Laffer curve, it HURTS the government to lower rates. They are lying when they claim it is a straight line function: It is a curve that goes up and then down.

Right from the get go, this is intellectual dishonesty: It is a plan to gut the government, drive up the deficit, and make the income disparity problem worse. It is the exact opposite of tax reform.

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#304094 - 11/24/17 08:56 PM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13405
Loc: Whittier, California
It's a "$12.99 a month unlimited high speed internet plan!!!"....that quickly goes to $149.00 a month after 60 days, only that disclaimer is in microscopic print at the bottom of the page, and no one reads it, and once you sign up, you're bound to a five year contract.

How is it any different than that, aside from the numbers and time frames?
It's a giant fecking bait and switch, and dumb yokels are falling for it every single time.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#304098 - 11/25/17 12:08 AM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2189
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Let me try again. Apparently everybody thinks this is not a tax cut, they would be mistaken. It IS a tax cut and its for the 1% and they actually make no bones about that (they quibble and lie a little, however). Anyway, the Republicans are cutting taxes and they are cutting taxes for their donor base and all the rest continues to be baloney.

The Republicans gave up any thought of honest, truth, facts, etc a while ago. Now, its very simple. They want to WIN (basically, their jobs. Nothing more, nothing less. They want to pound the other side to dust and nothing else will satisfy. They certainly are not interested in actually doing their jobs, just keeping them. I find it amazing that anybody would think anything else. The Dems do it too but not anywhere near the vigor of the Republicans. Its a bit like the Vietnam war when the unions were quite willing to march in favor of the war to the point of actually sacrificing their children who served so that the troops wouldn't come home and take their jobs (which they did and it was, pretty much, the end of universal unions). It is ALWAYS about jobs no matter the category; elected, driving a truck, electrician, whatever, it just doesn't matter. Trump won on job promises, he isn't going to keep those promises but that doesn't matter. Wishful thinkers thought he might and that was enough to vote for him. Historically we have seen this over and over again. Hitler promised all them jobs that them bad Jews were taking away. Everybody eventually got jobs, in the army. Trump's cant was the same except he blamed anybody who might be 'different'. Unlike Hitler he mentioned them all at one time or another; foreigners, blacks, browns, refugees, etc. If anybody is even vaguely different they are fair game and it WORKED!

I have mentioned it a couple of times but WE are not all that admirable as WE allowed it to happen. I know, its only 30% so. A simple question comes to mind - where was the other 70%? I would humbly suggest that we all may be fighting the wrong war here.

America has always had a problem with moderation. For instance, members of the left believe that regulation is necessary so that we can all live together in peace. The Right, on the other hand believe that any kind of regulation is an offense against God. The problem, for both sides, is the lack of moderation. I believe this is probably what has brought us to this point. The amusing thing is that both sides readily talk about talking with one another, etc. The reality is that it simply is not happening. In other words, irregardless what they say, the words are a damned lie.

Just saying................

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#304130 - 11/26/17 05:21 PM Re: Big Lies and Tax Cuts [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16363
They whole tax cut fight demonstrates many things, chief among them that Trump has no idea how out-played he is. For Trump, GOP tax bill could have big downside - The Hill. Since he doesn't know how legislation is made, and doesn't understand any of the details (or basic concepts) of policy, he didn't notice that the tax bill basically eliminates his infrastructure proposal. "Not only would the tax overhaul use up one of the potential funding options for repairing infrastructure, it would also eliminate a financing tool that states have used to back a wide range of infrastructure projects." - Private activity bonds. That's how most state and local partnerships are funded (think arenas and bridges). Republicans Push to End Muni Sales by Businesses, Stadiums - Bloomberg. Having tax exemptions allows them to compete in bond markets. Most mutual funds use them to protect against losses. You probably own some of you have a pension plan or 401(k). Private banks don't like them so much (explaining who's calling the shots in Congress). But hedge fund managers like the move because existing bonds will increase in value.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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