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#304182 - 12/01/17 05:26 PM Re: The Communication-coordination-collusion-conspiracy Continuum [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
This is significant: Michael Flynn's guilty plea is an absolutely massive problem for Donald Trump. But will it be fatal?

I found it interesting what Flynn pled guilty to. It tells me that there is a significant deal in the works, and here's why: Flynn pled guilty to the lowest possible charges, and none that directly implicate certain others, nor that involved Turkey. It seems to me unlikely that this means Mueller is "wrapping up" his investigation - although that is one possibility. The more likely scenario is that new Revelations are coming about Flynn being directed, by someone in the White House, to make contacts and suggestions/concessions. I.e., he was not a rogue operative.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304206 - 12/02/17 10:25 PM Re: The Communication-coordination-collusion-conspiracy Continuum [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1954
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Do not think, for one minute, that anything is a problem for Trump until it IS a problem for Trump. So far, in spite of everything, the lying jackass has been able to skate through stuff that would have taken down what we would call a 'normal' politician. The man has been able to lower his bar so far that nothing sticks and, even when it does, it seems to make no difference. Remember, he seems to have the complete support of the Entire Republican Machine no matter what it costs them, in reputation, regard, integrity, honesty, etc. This has kept him in office and supports his actions (even though some whine nothing ever happens). The ONLY way he gets dealt with is if the left is able to regain political offices and, so far, that has not happened (some movement in that regard recently but a LOT more will be needed and I am not convinced that will happen.

I think this is, probably, yet another case of "Don't count your chickens before they are hatched". A good example of continuing Democratic incompetence is their apparent inability to even mention the simple fact that the new tax law is going to privatize medicare and medicaid, do away with a woman's right to control their own bodies, steal money from them without much and give it to the very rich, add a trillion (some say 3 trillion) to the national debt, get rid of most deductions not used by them making less than 75 a grand a year, add deductions for them making more than 500,000 a year, leave those existing corporate deductions which currently allow them to pay between 14% and 16% instead of the current 35% which, in turn, means that they will probably pay less than 10% after this bill (and a LOT more!).

I wonder, does anybody remember the Reagan tax cut and the following tax increase because the Reagan tax cut was so much gov could no longer pay its bills? Right now the IRS hs been cut so much that they can no longer actually collect the taxes they should be collecting. In other words this is, basically, yet another deal of the Right to actually shut down government. Since everybody believes that gov is a disaster, cannot function, etc. we may actually get a chance to see what happens when gov goes away and the kindly 1% actually take over YOUR lives! Just think, with just a little bit more we can do away with the FBI, ALL regulations, firemen, policemen, higher education (the tax law goes after higher public education), etc.

Interesting times...............


Edited by jgw (12/02/17 10:27 PM)

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#304207 - 12/03/17 02:51 AM Re: The Communication-coordination-collusion-conspiracy Continuum [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7614
Loc: North San Diego County
And then the poor can start eating the rich.

It really does not take many dead billionaires to make such folks realize that such extreme income and asset inequality is not such a good idea after all. There are a HELL of a lot more poor people than rich people, and even if they manage to kill 100 assassins, one will get through. Once you're dead, all the money in the world does you no good. It just means longer lines to piss on your grave.

I really don't know if it will come to that within my lifetime, but everything Republicans keep on doing is leading that way. Remember when Richard Nixon bragged about his wife wearing "a respectable Republican cloth coat" instead of fur?

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#304233 - 12/04/17 09:15 PM Re: The Communication-coordination-collusion-conspiracy Continuum [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Where we are now:

With the recent revelations, and admissions, it is clear that we have established more than just "communication." We have identifiable evidence, now, of coordination with Russian officials during the transition phase, and - at the very least - attempted coordination during the campaign. Moreover, the evidence of cover-up/obstruction is becoming clearer. Trump in his latest tweets acknowledged his knowledge that Flynn had lied to the FBI. That is big. Despite this knowledge, there does not appear any evidence of an effort to correct the record with the FBI- quite the contrary. That brings us to collusion/conspiracy...

To be clear, collusion is a colloquial term indicating more than mere cooperation, but a coordinated effort toward a nefarious goal. Collusion does not always reflect conspiracy (the legal issue for prosecution), but it does infer more than mere knowledge. The questions, from a prosecutorial angle, are: Who directed it; what was its "goal"; and was that goal "prohibited." So far, it appear that at least Jared Kushner was "directing" (and participating in) a series of contacts with Russian operatives both before and after the election. It seems unlikely to me that the "candidate" was unaware of these contacts, although you are guaranteed that he will lie about it in whatever way he feels is most advantageous to him, personally.

I am more convinced than ever that Jared is now the focus of the probe, and should be. Donald Jr. will be a useful idiot to any prosecution, as his inherent dishonesty - and cluelessness - have already provided grist for the coming prosecutorial mill. I don't think it's wishful thinking that ties to Donald Trump himself will be found. What remains - and will remain - is determining whether anything learned will be "actionable."
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304234 - 12/04/17 09:45 PM Re: The Communication-coordination-collusion-conspiracy Continuum [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6414
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Republicans are not interested in anything Trump.

If presented with evidence Mr Trump strangled an aide with his bare hands on live video feed, they would not blink an eye, but would probably say the aide deserved it.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#304235 - 12/04/17 09:56 PM Re: The Communication-coordination-collusion-conspiracy Continuum [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13149
Loc: Whittier, California
At this point, they could find Trump raping a bound woman, watching child pornography, shooting Mexican immigrants, in the Oval Office lit with burning bibles with bags of classified documents addressed to Putin, smoking a crack pipe and Trump supporters would say:

"You're taking that out of context."
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#304236 - 12/04/17 11:51 PM Re: The Communication-coordination-collusion-conspiracy Continuum [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6414
Loc: Highlands, Tx
and .... it is fake news

I think too many folks are applying some logical rational analysis to what will or will not happen. We have a president who has a personality disorder and can not tell the truth about anything. The only logic which applies to him is whether what he says makes him appear great, greater, greatest person who ever lived.

What would (logically) Republicans should do, no longer applies to any analysis. Sen McConnell just tacitly supported the alleged pedophile J Moore after the senator acknowledged he believed the women's stories.

I know, party above country ... Bible above the Constitution .... we are frakked
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#304237 - 12/05/17 12:07 AM Re: The Communication-coordination-collusion-conspiracy Continuum [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3806
Loc: Eugene, OR
OK, Iíll take this one at a time from the point of view of his fans. Anything over +4 points means Mr Trump is the best thing ever:

1) Binding a women: 2+ points. Hey--twice the fun.

2) Watching child pornography: 0 Points. Lots of both fans and detractors there. So they equalize each-other.

3) Shooting Mexican Immigrants: 4+ Points. Big positive score here. Add into this other brownish immigrants and the score continues upwards by ethnicity.

4) Burning Bibles: -1 point. But since it was Trump the score has been revised upwards from -3....... Putin? Donít matter. As long as his cronies continue to be Trumpís bank they are all good.

5) Crack Pipe: +1. Pass the pain pills. It canít git no worse. Unless Hillary were to have been elected.

6) Itís all in context of the greatest POTUS in US history!

Final score for Mr. Trump..+6.

But I do wonder if Mr. Trump has ever hiked in the Grand Staircase Escalante? Perhaps only if assisted with a golf cart......
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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