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#304571 - 12/22/17 09:00 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7886
Loc: North San Diego County
"President" Paul Ryan? If there was a 2018 Congressional rout, the Speaker could well be a Democrat.

It's really a gamble the Republicans have to think about. If they impeach Trump and optionally Pence, they end up with Republican control of the White house for three more years.

If they wait to be escorted out of the majority in Congress in 2018, the speaker could be a Democrat and impeachment of both Trump and Pence could put that Democrat in the Oval Office.

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#304573 - 12/22/17 12:18 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16204
Representative Nadler from New York, the new senior member of the judiciary committee was on Chris Hayes' "All In" last night. He detests Trump, and the feeling is mutual. But he judiciously pointed out that impeachment is not going to happen - even if the House indicts, Trump will not be convicted in the Senate, which requires a 2/3 vote. There simply is no plausible scenario where a sufficient number (14-18 even if all Democrats vote to) of Republicans will vote to convict, ESPECIALLY if they are in the minority. They are power-mad and without principles. Is sad, but true.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304589 - 12/23/17 03:00 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13270
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
"President" Paul Ryan? If there was a 2018 Congressional rout, the Speaker could well be a Democrat.

It's really a gamble the Republicans have to think about. If they impeach Trump and optionally Pence, they end up with Republican control of the White house for three more years.

If they wait to be escorted out of the majority in Congress in 2018, the speaker could be a Democrat and impeachment of both Trump and Pence could put that Democrat in the Oval Office.


What most of my liberal friends don't seem to understand is that the latter sounds like it is really well worth fighting for.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#304591 - 12/23/17 12:43 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6487
Loc: Highlands, Tx
The first problem would be to find "crimes" worthy of actual of House charges being filed. Run of the mill emolument, 3rd party associations, etc, don't and would qualify for anyone but rabid partisans.

Channeling what Rep Nadler said, another Rep said essentially the same thing i.e. GOP control of House and Senate precludes almost every scenario one could devise based on currently known "facts".

So unless Mr Trump has committed a crime to heinous to even imagine what it would be, he will be free to do whatever he pleases. Remember it is Mr Trump who has control of the base, not the leaders of the GOP. It is purely political. And this gets even worse when one throws a little speculation in. Mr Trump "enjoys" about 35% approval rating. What if he went to war? Like a TV reality show cheerleader, Mr Trump has been campaigning for such a confrontation between the US and NK (or another country of your choice). The public would probably support a new war if properly provoked. Approval ratings high, statues to his greatness, and songs praising his greatness. Mueller? Who is that?



However, there is one scenario in which there may be a problem. Suppose he, in one of his narcissistic delusions believes he has now become emperor of America and can disband Congress as ineffective, etc etc. This may be the only scenario which would prompt the GOP into action.

Rambling so don't mind me
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#304592 - 12/23/17 01:25 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8868
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: rporter314
The first problem would be to find "crimes" worthy of actual of House charges being filed...


Maybe they could get him to lie about what the meaning of 'is' is, under oath? That's on the record as an impeachable offense, as I recollect...
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"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#304595 - 12/23/17 02:04 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6487
Loc: Highlands, Tx
LOL .... sure for Dems

just don't forget the administration lies with impunity .... so you want to charge someone with something which is "normal" for these folks (and it is not just the administration .... see Amb Hoekstra and his lies for textbook example)?

In addition don't forget Mr Trump suffers from a personality disorder, narcissism, which means he lies all the time. Even if under oath, he believes what he says is true. How do you convince someone who resides in an alternate reality they are lying and then how can you charge someone with a crime in this reality with something from that reality?

Ordinary "crimes" (lying, cheating, fraud, murder, etc) do not apply to Mr Trump. Like he said and like everyone who looks at this objectively says, a Republican Congress will not file charges.

So what would induce Congress into action? I am thinking stepping across Constitutional boundaries. Think .... "I do not work for you Mr President". Dissolution of courts. Pre-emptorily rounding up dissidents. .... If there is one thing which motivates at least Congress, it is power.

I don;t hold much hope with this bunch of Republicans who have apparently been to the crossroads.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#304601 - 12/23/17 07:16 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16204
They've chosen sides already. If there is a putsch, it will be "Republican."
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304602 - 12/23/17 07:27 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7886
Loc: North San Diego County
Nonsense: They will impeach or Amendment 25 him the minute support for him threatens to lose them their jobs. Pence may be an idiot and a toady, but at least he's not a loose cannon.

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#304617 - 12/24/17 02:43 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6487
Loc: Highlands, Tx
i think almost all Republican strategists have offered the notion they will be drowned in 2018 to the point they may lose one or both houses of Congress. No one is suggesting they file charges.

Perhaps they believe their big beautiful tax cut for the wealthy and businesses will save them?

Now is the time to save their jobs ... their party. They all went home to unwrap Christmas presents. No one took a pen home.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#304621 - 12/24/17 08:16 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7886
Loc: North San Diego County
It's nice to see that Russian corruption has a cost:

Goodbye Russia: A generation packs its bags

Magnitsky is not an isolated case at all. Thousands of young educated Russians are deciding they don't want to live in Putin's Paradise.

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