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#304791 - 01/02/18 08:09 PM Round Table for January, 2018
NW Ponderer Offline
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On 21 February 1850, the British government purchased the Barque-rigged ship, Ptarmigan, to engage in an expedition to find Rear-Admiral Sir John Franklin, an English Royal Navy officer and explorer of the Arctic. He disappeared on his last expedition, attempting to chart and navigate a section of the Northwest Passage in the Canadian Arctic. Ptarmigan was renamed, and refitted for Arctic service. The refitting included installation of strong timbers, an internal heating system, and a polar bear as a figurehead. During 1850-51 the renamed HMS Resolute sailed the eastern Arctic under the command of Horatio Thomas Austin. Although they failed to find the Franklin expedition, they did find traces of Franklin's first winter camp on Beechey Island. On a subsequent expedition to find Franklin, Resolute, was part of a squadron under the command of Sir Edward Belcher. In 1853, Resolute was among several of Belcher's ships to be trapped in the ice and ordered abandoned in 1854.
Quote:
On 10 September 1855, the abandoned Resolute was found adrift by the American whaler George Henry, captained by James Buddington of Groton, Connecticut[1] in an ice floe off Cape Walsingham of Baffin Island, 1,200 miles (1,900 km) from where she had been abandoned. An October 1856 New York Journal relates Captain Buddington and crew's encounter:
“Finally, stealing over the side, they found everything stowed away in proper order for desertion—spars hauled up to one side and bound, boats piled together, and hatches closed. Everything wore the silence of the tomb. Finally reaching the cabin door they broke in, and found their way in the darkness to the table. On it they accidentally turned on a box of lucifer matches; in a moment one was ignited, the glowing light revealed a candle; it was lit and before the astonished gaze of these men exposed a scene that appeared to be rather one of enchantment than reality. Upon a massive table was a metal teapot, glistening as if new, also a large volume of Scott's family Bible, together with glasses and decanters filled with choice liquors. Near by was Captain Kellett's chair, a piece of massive furniture, over which had been thrown, as if to protect this seat from vulgar occupation, the royal flag of Great Britain.”

Buddington split his crew, and took 13 men with him on the Resolute. He arrived home in New London, Connecticut on Christmas Eve.
- Wikipedia. The Resolute continued to serve the Royal Navy from 1856 until retired in 1879. It was later salvaged for timber, which is where the story makes an interesting turn:

Three desks were made from the timbers of Resolute, one of which, a large "partner's desk" was presented to U.S. President Rutherford B. Hayes in 1880 as a gesture of thanks for the rescue and return of Resolute. It is that desk which has served seven Presidents, many with distinction.

Welcome to the Round Table for January 2018.

January is the month for making and breaking resolutions. I like to think of it as a tradition stemming from the Resolute desk (although I'm certain that's not true). Many an important document has been signed upon that desk, and many have changed the course of our homeland.

Now, of course, is a time for remaining resolute. Many of our institutions, and the government itself, is under attack - not from without, but by those entrusted with its care. WE, as a People, need to resolve not to let that happen. Those are the thoughts with which I've started my new year. What are yours?*




*(The mystery surrounding Franklin's last expedition was the subject of a 2006 episode of the Nova television series Arctic Passage and a 2006 documentary "Franklin's Lost Expedition" on Discovery HD Theater. In September 2014, the Prime Minister of Canada, Stephen Harper, announced that the wreck of HMS Erebus, one of the two ships from Franklin's final voyage, had been rediscovered. On 12 September 2016, it was announced that the Arctic Research Foundation expedition had found the second ship, HMS Terror, south of King William Island in Terror Bay and in "pristine" condition. The icebound ships were abandoned and the entire crew died of starvation, hypothermia, tuberculosis, lead poisoning, and scurvy. Encyclopedia Britannica.)

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#304796 - 01/02/18 10:17 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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<Bump>
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304797 - 01/02/18 10:38 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

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My resolution is to motivate as many voters as I can for the mid-terms.
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#304810 - 01/03/18 03:20 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Defeat terrorism and world dictators? He couldn't even beat Two And A Half Men smile


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#304824 - 01/03/18 07:11 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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I'm not sure where else to put this, but it is pretty important. It seems like the more people actually look at the evidence and the experiment designs, the more it looks like "The Post-Truth Times" notion is bunk. This is the idea that you can't correct people's mistaken ideas and such attempts will have a "boomerang effect" that makes them believe in fake news even more. It seems this is an accepted myth now, just like a lot of other social science rubbish that is rapidly being reviewed and discarded as not reproducible. The best evidence of this is the fact that some of the original "Boomerang Researchers" can't get their correction papers published! It is established knowledge despite new facts to the contrary!

Some Things Matter

That is a rather long and detailed Slate article, but worth knowing. To summarize, it DOES help to debunk fake news. It may not reach hard-core conservatives who have an elaborate fantasy world view constructed, but that is a relatively small percentage of the population and they are bonkers anyway. For everybody else, fact-checking works to correct misperceptions.

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#304836 - 01/04/18 02:23 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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To be fair, let's have a look at the people who believe in "fake news," keeping these studies in mind:


Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice

- and -

Conservatives Big on Fear, Brain Study Finds

We'll dealing with genetics here and there is no changing that in people. Hmm When you only breed with others like you, instead of going outside of your own gene pool, these types of things, result.
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#304838 - 01/04/18 02:34 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Yes, and those people are not capable of understanding something as complicated as the real world. Don't bother. Remember, for every person with an IQ of 120, there's another with an IQ of 80. Fortunately, most of the truly mentally challenged don't vote. But aside from them, you probably can reach most people with enough repetition and real-world facts clashing with their misconceptions.

Your belief in our ability to fly starts to get unattractive after you jump off enough bridges. Pain is the great instructor.

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#304843 - 01/04/18 04:06 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Yes, and those people are not capable of understanding something as complicated as the real world. Don't bother. Remember, for every person with an IQ of 120, there's another with an IQ of 80. Fortunately, most of the truly mentally challenged don't vote. But aside from them, you probably can reach most people with enough repetition and real-world facts clashing with their misconceptions.

Your belief in our ability to fly starts to get unattractive after you jump off enough bridges. Pain is the great instructor.


Respectfully disagree!
For every person with an IQ of 120, there are six to EIGHT people with an IQ of around 80, maybe 85.
And most of them DO VOTE, because they go to their churches where their pastor tells them they're gonna burn in the lake of fire if they DON'T vote...for Republicans.
They're told that the evil libtards are gonna turn their world commie-nist if they don't vote.

The Right wing revisionist machine is now cranking full force, my friend. The alt-Right is now invested like a blue chip company.
The Right spends well over a billion or two every year to build more and more elaborate fantasy versions of the world, festooned with enough alternate facts to choke a mule.

Hitler was a liberal, blacks were better off under slavery, Hillary ran a kiddie whorehouse out of a pizza parlor, Obama tried to get the military to take over Texas, Obama is a Kenyan Muslim socialist and he's gonna make your daughters ride black guys, global warming can't be true because we still have snowballs, your sons can catch "gay cooties" and turn queer and want sex with little boys, Jesus wrote the Constitution while he was riding a dinosaur, if it's a legitimate rape a woman's body has a way of shutting that whole thing down, the Founding Fathers never intended that the Constitution go past the Tenth Amendment, the Supreme Court isn't supposed to interpret the law (except when it helps the Right), America isn't a democracy because it's a republic, our money is actually a slavery contract to an illegal corporation masquerading as the government, the press is nothing but evil lies, and perhaps the biggest lie of them all, the more money you let rich people steal, the better crumbs you will get in the end.

They're spending REAL money on this crap, and when you spend that kind of money, you expect to get results, and they are.
They're stealing elections and consolidating their lock on power, and now they have the ultimate weapon of mass destruction, an orange colored reality TV host with a BIG MOUTH and NO FILTER.
_________________________
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---Congressman Peter King

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#304860 - 01/04/18 07:50 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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I agree with everything you say except: "For every person with an IQ of 120, there are six to EIGHT people with an IQ of around 80, maybe 85."

I hate to burst your bubble, but IQ is a Poisson Distribution with a mean centered around 100. It is almost but not quite a Normal Distribution because you can't have an IQ lower than 0, but you can have an IQ above 200. (I even know someone with an IQ above 200!)

The shape of the curve is an objective fact. There is no disagreement about it. For everybody with an IQ 10 points above 100, there is an equal number of people with IQs 10 points below 100. If you state it differently, for every person with an IQ of 120, there are the same number at 80.

When you change the terms so you consider people with IQs from 80 through 85, there are as many in the IQ range of 115 to 120. But the curve is pretty steep so there a lot more near 115 and 85, than at 120 and 80.

It simply comes down to this: For every smart person, there is an equally dumb person.

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#304862 - 01/04/18 08:07 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

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So you do not believe that stupid people are breeding at exponential rates.
Maybe so, but are you prepared to take into account the number of WILLFULLY IGNORANT people?
That is where my equation prospers, and yours does not.
And the reason why that is important is, ignorance is not tied to IQ at all, however ignorance serves the same outcome as stupidity, therefore irregardless of the amount of mental horsepower a person's brain might have, they are the mental equivalent of a fleet of muscle cars driving around at 90 mph on 4 inch wide bald 14 inch bias ply tires in the rain.
And the willfully ignorant have their foot to the floor while they text at the same time.
And they ARE breeding at exponential rates.

We are now living IN the real version of the movie "Idiocracy".

Last but not least, most IQ tests are administered in school between third and eighth grade. Once these morons skip out of ninth grade, rest assured they are actively lowering their IQ's by at least ten to twenty points a year until they REACH about 80 or 85.

And that's about the time they run for President.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#304875 - 01/04/18 10:03 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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That all could be true, but dummies actually sometimes line up their genes right (by accident) and produce a smart kid. And smart kids can be reached before they start the stupification process with drugs and alcohol, sometimes.

Actually, the intelligent have a slight inherent advantage because under a certain IQ range, people forget to vote, can't find their way to the polls, or are not allowed to leave the facility.

The one thing missing from Idiocracy was the secret intelligensia running everything behind the scenes. I remember one SciFi book where time travelers find a word filled with simpletons but the bathroom attendants were actually highly intelligent and running everything, keeping the fluffies safe much like we watch out for infants.

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#304879 - 01/05/18 12:43 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Jeff Sessions' self-defeating prophesy...

Jeff Sessions is trying out an all out assault on Marijuana use, and it is driving Republicans nuts... They realize (and he doesn't) that the best way to keep liberals from voting is to get them stoned.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304918 - 01/06/18 05:41 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
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Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana
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Vote 2018; give meaning and honor to those who made sure you have the right to vote.

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#304930 - 01/07/18 06:20 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Serious question: If you're dropped from the voter rolls for not voting, you can re-register again, right? Hmm

I got the gist from this article that once you're dropped, you're dropped for life.

That can't be true, right? gobsmacked
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#304931 - 01/07/18 05:50 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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It's not true for all, just those who can't meet the new, arbitrary standards. Try finding your birth certificate if you're a refugee, or were born a sharecropper.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304933 - 01/07/18 07:26 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Thanks,NW_P for the reply. smile
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#304934 - 01/07/18 11:03 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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All you have to do is get on a bus and go to the state capital, walk to the Vital Records Department, wait for hours until your number is called, and then proves you are who you claim. Acceptable ID is a birth certificate...

Otherwise, you can bring five citizens with ID who can swear you are who you say.

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#304943 - 01/08/18 02:32 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Ladies, and gentlemen...President Oprah Winfrey:



Bow
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#304977 - 01/10/18 05:42 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Darryl Issa is not seeking re-election.

smile , Bow
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#304979 - 01/10/18 10:25 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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And Arpaio is running for Senate... It'll be a contest of the crazies: Kelli Ward or Joe Arpaio? Poll: Arpaio statistically tied with McSally in GOP primary for Arizona Senate - the Hill.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304984 - 01/11/18 01:15 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

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Would voters actually elect Arpaio? Even if a majority still actually like him for some unfathomable reason he's 82 years old and would be 88 at the end of his term.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#304986 - 01/11/18 01:18 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greger
Would voters actually elect Arpaio? Even if a majority still actually like him for some unfathomable reason he's 82 years old and would be 88 at the end of his term.

I think that Joe Arpaio will be get the Roy Moore treatment - a very close race, then finally lose.
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#304988 - 01/11/18 02:28 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
matthew Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas

We are now living IN the real version of the movie "Idiocracy".

"Idiocracy" was based on a 1951 short story, "The Marching Morons".

I append for your enjoyment a PDF file of "The Marching Morons":

The Marching Morons
.
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It is far easier to deceive folks than to convince them they are deceived

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#304999 - 01/11/18 05:44 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: matthew]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13267
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: matthew
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas

We are now living IN the real version of the movie "Idiocracy".

"Idiocracy" was based on a 1951 short story, "The Marching Morons".

I append for your enjoyment a PDF file of "The Marching Morons":

The Marching Morons
.


I actually have read it, and a dear friend who is something of a luminary in the sci-fi business mentioned that to me the moment Idiocracy was released.

Idiocracy is loosely based on TMM, but there are, of course, some major departures in the plot, plus TMM wasn't all that much of a dark comedy...it was just..."dark"...and perhaps slightly racist, LOL.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305005 - 01/12/18 12:28 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Not very racist for 1951! Consider the context. We've come a very long way.
In 1939, just 12 years earlier, Anslinger the head of government drug enforcement said:

"Marijuana is bad because it makes darkies think they are as good as White men."

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#305007 - 01/12/18 01:31 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Guess who lets people believe he has a MBA from Wharton and insinuates that he does. The guy doesn't even have a masters - only an undergrad in economics and then only attended Wharton for 2 years after transferring from Fordham.
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#305014 - 01/12/18 11:47 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Hey I've got a BS myself and I graduated with honors. I inherited some money from my dad and instead of going bankrupt multiple times, I actually invested it well and made it grow. I have always paid my bills promptly. I guess I'm more qualified than Trump!

Also I have have no Alzheimer's genes and I am actually smart enough to know a President should hire real experts in their field and then listen to them.

As Al Franken said: "Why not me?"

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#305030 - 01/12/18 05:47 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Hey I've got a BS myself and I graduated with honors. I inherited some money from my dad and instead of going bankrupt multiple times, I actually invested it well and made it grow. I have always paid my bills promptly. I guess I'm more qualified than Trump!

YOU and Oprah. smile

Neither of you have had to file for bankruptcy, or have grabbed a woman's puss, or called Haiti and African countries (home to civilization as we know it) "Sh!tholes". Hmm
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#305050 - 01/13/18 06:14 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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#305083 - 01/14/18 09:17 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Donald Trump is such an amateur when it comes to deception and dog whistles. If you want an example of a master employment read this op-ed from a denizen of the Hoover institute (remember Hoover? Yes, the President who sucked): What the 'Dreamer' Fight is Really All About - LA Times. (Of course it's not, and many of his "facts" are gross and deliberate distortions).
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305093 - 01/15/18 11:07 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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I was just pondering some theological topics and I found two interesting things:

1) Most Protestant sects believe that every dead body just rots and nobody goes to heaven before Jesus comes back. So every time a Protestant tells you someone dead is in Heaven looking down on you they are heretical.

2) When Jesus DOES come back and we have Judgement day, all the previous dead get judged first. (This is actually in the Bible and is very explicit and nowhere contradicted.) So you get to wait in line. At the END of the line. If each judgement takes 5 minutes to review every word you spoke, every sin, every good deed, etc. (Not an unreasonable time for this level of judgement for how you will spend eternity.) The line will take just about 1 million years.

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#305114 - 01/15/18 11:55 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

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Ah, but PIA, those Pearly Gates are wide enough to accommodate many lines. They've been planning this massive emigration for all eternity so I expect there are hundreds, if not thousands, of heavenly clericals of the winged class getting their ethereal paperwork in order and preparing for the day(and it's coming soon) when all those folks come knocking on heaven's door....knock knock knockin' on heaven's door.....
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#305115 - 01/16/18 12:47 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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I expect the line is no longer than a week's wait. It's in Genesis. It only took 6 days to generate the universe. God days. Processing can't take that long!
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305116 - 01/16/18 01:31 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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It says Jesus does the judging, not surrogates. Just saying it's right there in the Bible. If He could do it all at the same time, why would the Bible mention the order of judging? It pretty directly says sequential, not simultaneous.

But waiting a million years might not be a big deal, if you can find some nice folks to wait with. At least they will be those who died at about the same time. Probably not your family unless you all died at the same time like in a bomb blast.

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#305123 - 01/16/18 05:54 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


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Are these "people of faith"?

Teen’s Escape Leads to Discovery of 13 M...o Beds: Sheriff

I ask because Mummy and Daddy were running one of those private religious schools and my spidey sense is tingling, telling me that this has church-ey written all over it, and half those thirteen kids came from one or more of his daughters.



That almost beatific smile on Mom's face in the police photos tells me she's secretly relieved that the jig is finally up, and now her story can finally be told.

Let's hope she doesn't have a major case of Stepford/Stockholm Syndrome going on.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305124 - 01/16/18 06:01 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Damn it! Just look at that guy's haircut! It screams basement full of kids in chains.
Folie à deux if I ever saw it.

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#305125 - 01/16/18 06:29 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
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Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Damn it! Just look at that guy's haircut! It screams basement full of kids in chains.
Folie à deux if I ever saw it.


News story says all his male children had identical "bowl" haircuts too, and all the girls had to wear matching magenta long dresses.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305131 - 01/16/18 08:05 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

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!
There's some serious bat-chit crazy going on here. Jeffery pegged them as godly folk of some sort. I'll take the imaginary narrative forward a notch and say that if they voted they probably didn't vote for Bernie.
But the world being what it is they'll turn out to be pagan democrats and I'll be hoist by my own petard so to speak....

These are some deeply disturbed individuals here, is it any wonder we tend to peg them as Christian conservatives? In our society these are the folks who are farthest removed from what the rest of us percieve as reality.
_________________________
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#305132 - 01/16/18 08:06 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

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Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Damn it! Just look at that guy's haircut! It screams basement full of kids in chains.
Folie à deux if I ever saw it.


News story says all his male children had identical "bowl" haircuts too, and all the girls had to wear matching magenta long dresses.


And that's a face that screams I GAVE THOSE HAIRCUTS!
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#305193 - 01/20/18 01:27 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Are these "people of faith"?

Indeed. Plus they're 'home schoolers.'

It seems that religious nutivism and home schooling go hand-and-hand. Hmm
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#305194 - 01/20/18 01:29 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Hey I've got a BS myself and I graduated with honors. I inherited some money from my dad and instead of going bankrupt multiple times, I actually invested it well and made it grow. I have always paid my bills promptly. I guess I'm more qualified than Trump!

Also I have have no Alzheimer's genes and I am actually smart enough to know a President should hire real experts in their field and then listen to them.

As Al Franken said: "Why not me?"

Indeed, why not YOU? Darryl Issa isn't running and you have nothing else to do all day but to watch avocados grow. Hmm
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#305195 - 01/20/18 01:37 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
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PIA for Prezzy-dint!
_________________________
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---Congressman Peter King

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#305196 - 01/20/18 02:04 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Quote:
PIA for Prezzy-dint!


Thanks, but I think our own NWP would actually do a better job, being an experienced lawyer and all.

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#305201 - 01/20/18 04:36 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

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Hey NWP, aren't you driving a truck right now?
You take the White House and give your old job to Donald Trump.
He always wanted to drive the big rigs.
See? Check him out, he's very excited by those big trucks!

Trump Driving America Off a Cliff

_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
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#305202 - 01/20/18 05:46 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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I play less golf than Trump. I don't have an elaborate coiffure to cover my lack of hair. I've actually read the Constitution (more than once, even). I know how a Bill becomes a law... Yeah, I'll do it.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305203 - 01/20/18 05:53 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

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WOOO HOOOO!!! ThumbsUp
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#305204 - 01/20/18 06:57 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Things that make you go: Hmmm

I recently started watching Melrose Place. Haven't seen that show since it was originally on in the early '90s. The first three episodes are a cross-over storyline of characters from 90210 because Melrose Place is a spin-off from 90210

Anyhoo...

The cross-over arc is 17 year old Kelly from 90210 is madly in love with 27 year old Jake Hanson. Jake's character started off on 90210 and that character's apartment, and therefore, Jake's building, is the impedice for Melrose Place setting.

I was thinking...17 year old school girl, 27 year old guy...sound familiar? After all, 1992 was not that far removed from early 80's, Gadsden Mall and Roy Moore.

Given how things played-out last fall in real-life, how do you think that Melrose Place story arc would play out today? Hmm
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#305213 - 01/20/18 06:45 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Quote:
17 year old school girl, 27 year old guy


Hmmmm, sounds like the show is soon going to add a prison thread in sex-offender jail! Of maybe they'll get the affair worked up and steamy just to consummate it on her 18th birthday.

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#305223 - 01/21/18 06:19 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
17 year old school girl, 27 year old guy


Hmmmm, sounds like the show is soon going to add a prison thread in sex-offender jail! Of maybe they'll get the affair worked up and steamy just to consummate it on her 18th birthday.

This was all filmed 25 years ago in 1992. Hmm

If this was filmed today, the CONservTARDS would be saying about Roy Moore: Hollywood condones Roy Moore's behavior.
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#305224 - 01/21/18 07:34 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pdx rick]
Ken Condon Offline
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#305240 - 01/22/18 11:41 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
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Loc: Whittier, California
Nazis threaten Unitarian Church, Jackson Browne.

_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305275 - 01/26/18 03:04 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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¡ ay caramba ! Amnesty Donnie lied, MAGA died. laugh 1.8m DACAs on the path to citizenship. Bow
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#305276 - 01/26/18 05:54 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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New definition of the Hastert Rule: Don't bring a bill to the floor for a vote unless your majority can pass it, and have sex with underaged boys.

I think we should get it to go viral that the current Speaker is following a child molester's ideas. You might even say he is a disciple of Dennis the Pervert.

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#305281 - 01/26/18 08:44 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
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I love it!! Shared on my social media!!
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305300 - 01/27/18 07:36 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Q: What does Donald Trump's hair and a thong have in common?

A: They both barely cover-up an ahole. smile
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#305320 - 01/28/18 07:05 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

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I guess that was taken from Leon Russell's famous "A Thong For You"
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305361 - 01/30/18 12:37 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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There are over 35000 people working for the FBI: Do Republican Congressmen really want to attack them? Is this just part of the Party's death spiral? When you attack the whole institution you make enemies out of ALL of them, even the ones who might have supported you.

No more favors for Republican Congressmen. No more ignoring their little legal peccadillos, extramarital affairs, tax problems, etc. Life is going to be a BITCH for these guys after they release their made up memo to themselves. Some of their members can obviously see this coming and have chosen to resign now, while the getting is good.

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#305455 - 02/02/18 10:05 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

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Well, the memo finally dropped.
Boy howdy, some folks working on the investigation (a guy named Steele) didn't like Trump, what a surprise.
Some context might be helpful, since it's missing from the memo:
They didn't like him because there seemed to be a lot of evidence that he was helping Russians subvert a lot of social media, news, information, campaigns, national security, even attempting to create sock puppet interest groups dedicated to tearing apart the social order itself.

Or, in the words of one Republican, a certain senator from Arizona who is retiring and has nothing left to lose:

By releasing this memo and not focusing on the importance of the investigation itself, we are effectively doing Putin's job for him. (paraphrased)
And that investigation must not be impeded.

But don't take my word for it, go read it for yourself.
But first, a thought experiment:

Let's remove this guy Steele for a moment.
Say you stumble upon someone, we'll say that they are a complete idiot, and they love Trump, and they have information which THEY THINK BENEFITS Trump.
Just bear with me for a moment...

Say, for instance, this IDIOT thinks that they uncovered information which THEY (the IDIOT) think will cast Trump in a very favorable light with regard to something very damaging and possibly illegal.
Now, you're the FBI, so you KNOW what is legal and what ain't, yes?
You're trained to work ONLY on the FACTS and the LAW, yes?
You look at that certain something that the IDIOT laid at your feet and you realize that it's a huge stinker, and that the person bringing it to you IS INDEED, AN IDIOT, an idiot who doesn't realize that they just cooked Trump's goose in epic fashion.

Naturally, you do not tell the idiot that they are an idiot and you don't reveal your hand or react at all, but you share what was handed to you with all your colleagues, who agree that the IDIOT who thought they were HELPING Trump just cooked his goose.
Now what?

Does it change what the information refers to ONE IOTA?

Use THAT YARDSTICK when parsing the memo and its meaning.
In other words, FLIP IT 180 degrees.

Your move.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305458 - 02/03/18 03:31 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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I think it's perfectly reasonable that Steele did not want Trump elected: All of his pretty reliable info coming from Russian officials pointed to Trump being a Russian agent! Maybe Trump didn't KNOW he was a Russian agent. Maybe he did. The fact that he tried to cover up his interactions with the Russians sure makes it look like he did know.

So in that case, what was a former British Intelligence officer supposed to do? If Steele was a Russian agent or compromised by the Russians, he would have censored his report and kept quiet. But he was neither, so he gave that report to his old agency and the FBI that found lots of it agreed with stuff they already had from talking to George Papadopoulos.

We should also note that he never claimed it as smoking-gun lock-him-up evidence. It was just things he had heard from reliable sources that the FBI should investigate. Which they did because that's their job.

So now Nunes and Trump are all upset because the FBI did their job? Sounds like criminals to me.

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#305461 - 02/03/18 05:03 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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The Memo is such a disaster, Puerto Rico sent aid to it.

The Memo has left out so much information, that it qualifies as a Jared Kushner security clearance application.

The Memo is so self-serving, it clapped for itself during the SOTU.

The Memo is such a disaster, FEMA responded to it.

The Memo is so childish, Roy Moore tried to date it.

The Memo is so poor, Paul Ryan wants to takeaway its SNAP card and Medicare benefits.

The Memo is so bankrupt, it was mistaken for a Trump Organization business plan.

The Memo is so lame, it applied for a handicap placard.

The Memo is so meaningless, Donald Trump asked it to marry him.

The Memo is so sad, it's being renamed "Melania."

The Memo is so pointless, it's taking Omarosa's old job with the Trump Administration.

The Memo is so deflated, Tom Brady asked to use it in tomorrow's game.

The Memo is so fake, even the Time magazine covers at Trump's golf courses were laughing.

The memo is so corrupt, Trump wants it as a Cabinet member

The Memo is so fake, it's following Trump on Twitter.

The Memo was so bad, that Sean Hannity cut to a car chase.

The Memo is so dishonest and misleading, it will replace Sarah Huckabee-Sanders as Press Secretary.
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#305462 - 02/03/18 05:53 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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#305463 - 02/04/18 04:41 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pdx rick]
Ken Condon Offline
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OK Then.

But I, as well as many others, continue to wonder how and why Ivanka’s neck is so unbelievably long. How is that? I mean that neck is seriously....... long.

Just an older guy pondering....
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#305465 - 02/04/18 07:55 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Ken Condon]
Irked Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
OK Then.

But I, as well as many others, continue to wonder how and why Ivanka’s neck is so unbelievably long. How is that? I mean that neck is seriously....... long.

Just an older guy pondering....


It is the result of years of special training.



Or maybe (the shame!) Egyptian blood?

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#305467 - 02/04/18 08:31 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Irked Offline
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Has anyone else remarked on the fact that what was once a very East Coast discussion board has become almost completely West Coasters?
_________________________
How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan

I consider myself to be a laid back type and quite tolerant on most issues - AB Breivik

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#305475 - 02/04/18 12:38 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Same liberal elites, just different accents.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305478 - 02/04/18 03:32 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Ken Condon]
logtroll Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
OK Then.

But I, as well as many others, continue to wonder how and why Ivanka’s neck is so unbelievably long. How is that? I mean that neck is seriously....... long.

Just an older guy pondering....

It's what they call in the Land O' Drumph, "Gettin' neckid".
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#305486 - 02/04/18 09:55 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Just like I've said:

If Immigrants Are Pushed Out, Who Will Care for the Elderly?

Quote:
If large numbers of immigrants become unable to work or fearful of attracting unwanted attention, “this is going to create tremendous strain,” Dr. Stone said. Already, “we’ve heard of nursing homes that have shut down, or stopped admissions, because they could not hire enough people.”

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#305487 - 02/04/18 09:55 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Irked]
matthew Offline
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Originally Posted By: Irked
Has anyone else remarked on the fact that what was once a very East Coast discussion board has become almost completely West Coasters?

Those east of the Rockies have already been assimilated by the Borg.
.
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#305492 - 02/05/18 01:51 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: matthew]
logtroll Offline
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I live about two miles east of the Continental Divide, who’s my tribe?
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#305493 - 02/05/18 05:47 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ken Condon Offline
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El pueblo de Geronimo.
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#305495 - 02/05/18 12:43 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Ken Condon]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
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That's a relief!

Say, did you hear about the extremely serious baseball team that got assimilated?

They were famously called "The Earnest Borg Nine".
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#305496 - 02/05/18 12:46 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
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#305498 - 02/05/18 02:12 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
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Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 347
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
GROAN

rolleyes


LOL

it is funny...
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The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

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#305499 - 02/05/18 02:14 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: matthew]
Ujest Shurly Offline
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"Those east of the Rockies have already been assimilated by the Borg."


Nope!

Resistance works...







Edited by Ujest Shurly (02/05/18 02:17 PM)
_________________________
Vote 2018; give meaning and honor to those who made sure you have the right to vote.

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

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#305521 - 02/07/18 07:04 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Ujest Shurly]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Donald Trump really does think he's a dictator: Pentagon considering Washington military parade at Trump’s request - NBC. He's jealous of Kim's rockets on parade, and the old Soviet displays.

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#305529 - 02/07/18 07:22 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Let's just get Trump a big rig he can drive around a closed track any time he wants. Or maybe a fire engine! He could have a new hobby besides cheating at golf. This would be a lot cheaper than a big military parade. Going out to a track in Virginia would be a lot cheaper than schlepping all those people down to Florida too.

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#305532 - 02/07/18 10:49 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
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That requires a CDL and I do not think President Donald (does not read) Trump could pass the exam even with reading help.
_________________________
Vote 2018; give meaning and honor to those who made sure you have the right to vote.

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#305536 - 02/08/18 11:55 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Kaine Offline
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Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Let's just get Trump a big rig he can drive around a closed track any time he wants. Or maybe a fire engine! He could have a new hobby besides cheating at golf. This would be a lot cheaper than a big military parade. Going out to a track in Virginia would be a lot cheaper than schlepping all those people down to Florida too.

But how would the world see how powerful Kim Jong-Trump is?
nono

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#305544 - 02/09/18 09:10 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7885
Loc: North San Diego County
I know how we do it: Get The Old Guard (the army unit that does all the ceremonies in DC) to march around and around a small city block with a Presidential viewing stand, so it looks like a lot of soldiers. They all have snappy dress uniforms with all the ribbons and medals. Get some military marching bands in there. Some Homecoming queens with big tits in convertibles. Some retired vets on flatbed trucks. Some National Guard trucks and mobile equipment from Virginia. Cadets from the service academies. Some NFL teams in their uniforms. A couple of Uncle Sam characters on stilts. Is there a circus nearby? Maybe we can get some elephants? If we get elephants, we definitely get all the Congressional Republicans marching after them.

No need to call in real troops who actually have real jobs to do, or transport heavy equipment that can't even run on DC streets without tearing them up.

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#305554 - 02/10/18 01:01 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13267
Loc: Whittier, California
Here's the reviewing stand Kim Jong Trump will be using.

_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305564 - 02/12/18 05:27 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13267
Loc: Whittier, California
"Illinois Nazis. I HATE Illinois Nazis."

---Joliet Jake Blues

Republican Party Nominates The Former Head Of The American Nazi Party For Congress
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305566 - 02/12/18 09:18 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14195
Loc: Florida
Well, there's this...
Quote:
In November, Jones will face either Representative Dan Lipinski or Lipinski’s Democratic primary challenger, Marie Newman. But the district is heavily blue and Democrats have held the seat since 1975, so, luckily, Jones has little chance of winning.


So this guy is basically just an embarrassment even to his own party.
Makes me think of that old adage "when you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas"
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#305568 - 02/13/18 06:34 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7885
Loc: North San Diego County
Apparently there are about 30 Trump White House staff who still don't have full security clearances! I thought Mueller would indict them one or two at a time but it looks like they could all get "Portered" and have to resign, for various reasons. A lot of the White House support for Porter is probably because so many others on staff have similar problems.

This is what happens when you elect somebody who does not know the meaning of the word "ethics".

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#305569 - 02/13/18 12:42 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Greger]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16203
Originally Posted By: Greger
Makes me think of that old adage "when you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas"
Except in this case it's, "When you lie down with fleas, you wake up with more fleas." All fleas, all the time.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305570 - 02/13/18 02:56 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6482
Loc: Highlands, Tx
this security clearance thing is really not a thing for the administration, just everyone on the outside. they could simply say for all of those undergoing clearance investigation, you have clearance by decree of Mr Trump as president. I mean ... Mr trump doesn't care what security problems any of these folks have as long as they are loyal to and defend Mr Trump.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#305571 - 02/13/18 08:05 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7885
Loc: North San Diego County
Yes, apparently agents of foreign governments are welcome in the White House staff. But then again, I guess they are blackmail-proof because we assume they all are scumbags. There is nothing that could be made public that would lower our opinion of them.

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#305573 - 02/14/18 03:01 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Posts: 16203
Occam's Razor: the White House is peopled by foreign agents. It is the simplest explanation.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305575 - 02/14/18 12:47 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8867
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
This is what happens when you elect somebody who does not know the meaning of the word "ethics".

From the Trump Book of #WINNING:
Ethics - noun
1) an obscure word for all the obstacles that get in the way of making money bigly;
2) a word that losers use to make themselves feel superior when they are SAD that I am #WINNING!;
3) a general term for what makes people poosies.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#305580 - 02/15/18 09:04 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13267
Loc: Whittier, California
Embrace the horror.
If the Democrats sweep both chambers of Congress, Chuck and Nancy will perpetrate The Great Capitulation and Normalization of President Trump as hero to Democrats, as Trump himself mounts the podium to declare,
"The American people have spoken. Republicans are LOSERS."

To not do so would cost Mr. Trump his sanity. He would not be able to abide being castigated by a Democratic Party majority and seeing as how Chuck and Nancy are damn near as devoid of principles as Trump, it's the ultimate pragmatic establishment Democrat solution for all interested parties, except of course anyone who detests Trump for his lack of principles.

But since when did that matter to Chuck and Nancy, or Debbie Wasserman Schultz, or anyone in the establishment Dems?
Look what they did to someone who DID have some principles.



Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if Trump were to flip on gun control, but not till after November, and only if Democrats sweep both chambers of Congress in a stunning upset.

PS: Mind you, I am not saying he will succeed with this idea, only that he's going to attempt doing it.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305585 - 02/16/18 05:00 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7885
Loc: North San Diego County
They supported the Democrat they thought could win. Bernie certainly couldn't. If he had won the primary, Republicans would have made mincemeat of him. He was their favorite Democrat because he would be so damned easy to beat.

And saying the Republicans and Democrats are all alike is simply a lie. After everything Trump has done, and everything Obama managed to do despite Congress blocking his every move, it should be obvious to everyone that Republicans and Democrats are fundamentally different.

The Democratic Party may not be Socialist, but they are VERY different from conservatives on almost every issue.

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#305588 - 02/16/18 01:56 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
They supported the Democrat they thought could win. Bernie certainly couldn't. If he had won the primary, Republicans would have made mincemeat of him. He was their favorite Democrat because he would be so damned easy to beat.

And saying the Republicans and Democrats are all alike is simply a lie. After everything Trump has done, and everything Obama managed to do despite Congress blocking his every move, it should be obvious to everyone that Republicans and Democrats are fundamentally different.

The Democratic Party may not be Socialist, but they are VERY different from conservatives on almost every issue.


I actually take some comfort in recognizing your unshakeable loyalty to such a flawed candidate as the supporters of the current POTUS. The blind loyalty is not the behavior of one party.
Have a conversation with any Hillary supporter and there is just as much 'glorious candidate' attitude as there is for the current 'glorious leader'.
The Sanders campaign mounted a respectable challenge to Clinton that was not predicted by her team. A mistake of hubris she went on and repeated during the general election. There has been much reporting on the rigging of the primary by her campaign and the DNC as well as her incompetence and hubris in the general election. The echo chamber of a consultancy ecosystem with a built in self regard of it's own thoughts and views. Not so much with the very people whose votes she needed.
Again, try and have that kind of conversation with a Clinton supporter and you run into a brick wall of liberal fealty similar to the revanchist loyalty to POTUS.
You gotta be strong enough to kill your babies. Unfortunately the house of Clinton has no capacity for self reflection or criticism. Neither do her fans.


Edited by chunkstyle (02/16/18 02:00 PM)

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#305601 - 02/17/18 02:43 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7885
Loc: North San Diego County
Actually, I am not such a huge Hillary fan. I don't worship the ground she walks on or anything. I just understand that the American public will never vote for a self-proclaimed Socialist. And that is exactly what the Republicans would have drilled into everyone's brain 24/7 between the primaries and the election. If a left-wing Democrat who has never called himself a Socialist runs in 2020, I would be happy to support him. I always have supported progressive Democrats in primaries, but always supported the primary winner in the election because the Republicans are always regressive goons.

As for Hillary, I underestimated the misogyny of the American public. When White women come out in droves to vote for a scumbag like Trump rather than vote for a woman, we have a real self-hate problem here. I expected that from a lot of men, but I didn't realize women hate women that much.

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#305603 - 02/17/18 04:08 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
Quote:
PIA said:
I expected that from a lot of men, but I didn't realize women hate women that much.


Excellent observation. I'm a woman. I've observed that behavior among women.

Every time a woman is a success, other women have to say to themselves, "OK, being a woman isn't the reason I'm failing." And, unfortunately, for some women, it then goes to, "So I hate her guts; she probably cheated."

So many women I have known measure their worth by their significant man's yardstick. And somehow they feel antagonism towards other women who might be doing it better.

Don't make me look this up, but remember when Hillary declared her candidacy and Michele Bachmann came out with a statement saying "It isn't time ..."? Why did MB think it wasn't time? Because she dropped (or fell) out of her run for president. Saying that it wasn't time was an excuse for her loss. It wasn't her; it was all women.

I'm pretty sure I didn't get that across like I wanted to. But I've seen it and it is hard to express. And be politically correct.


Edited by Spag-hetti (02/17/18 04:26 AM)
Edit Reason: Needed space
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#305604 - 02/17/18 04:37 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Spag-hetti]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13267
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
Quote:
PIA said:
I expected that from a lot of men, but I didn't realize women hate women that much.


Excellent observation. I'm a woman. I've observed that behavior among women.

Every time a woman is a success, other women have to say to themselves, "OK, being a woman isn't the reason I'm failing." And, unfortunately, for some women, it then goes to, "So I hate her guts; she probably cheated."

So many women I have known measure their worth by their significant man's yardstick. And somehow they feel antagonism towards other women who might be doing it better.

Don't make me look this up, but remember when Hillary declared her candidacy and Michele Bachmann came out with a statement saying "It isn't time ..."? Why did MB think it wasn't time? Because she dropped (or fell) out of her run for president. Saying that it wasn't time was an excuse for her loss. It wasn't her; it was all women.

I'm pretty sure I didn't get that across like I wanted to. But I've seen it and it is hard to express. And be politically correct.


Thank you for clearing that up.
I've been suspecting it for a while because you never engage in any of the dumb macho posturing.
You're one smart cookie alright.

I wasn't a Hillary fan for the simple reason that I just thought Bernie was better and I didn't care how many times he referred to himself as a socialist. What annoyed me is, he refused to join the Dems, something he should have done years ago. But I tooked mah chances and ah wuz wrong.
I don't hate Hillary, I just liked the old guy better.
P.J. O'Rourke even supported her.
He said, "She's wrong on everything but she is wrong within normal parameters"...high praise from a Republican columnist.

So when Bernie got crushed, I voted for her, figuring she wasn't so terrible and might even be pretty good.
Unfortunately too many stayed home and sulked.
Which is one reason we wound up with Trump.

We couldn't even keep our slim Senate majority, just that alone might have stopped the hemorrhaging we're seeing today.

And that right there, is 100% our fault, not Hillary's, not Bernie's not anyone else's...OUR fault.
We allowed our slim majority to slip away.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305607 - 02/17/18 09:35 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16203
As Chris Hayes put it last night, "there was a third party running," too. Having seen Mueller's indictment, yesterday, I now believe Putin's efforts were fruitful enough. Yes, Trump "won" the Electoral College, but only because of cheating. He only got 71,000 extra votes in three States. We can't fix it, now (just like 2000), but we shouldn't kid ourselves, either. There were millions of uncast ballots that would have changed the outcome. Maybe 2018 will be different, but somehow I don't think so.

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#305609 - 02/17/18 04:20 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41017
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


I think that getting Facebook and Twitter to stop engaging Russian bots would be a tremendous start. Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#305611 - 02/17/18 05:02 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13267
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
As Chris Hayes put it last night, "there was a third party running," too. Having seen Mueller's indictment, yesterday, I now believe Putin's efforts were fruitful enough. Yes, Trump "won" the Electoral College, but only because of cheating. He only got 71,000 extra votes in three States. We can't fix it, now (just like 2000), but we shouldn't kid ourselves, either. There were millions of uncast ballots that would have changed the outcome. Maybe 2018 will be different, but somehow I don't think so.


But AGAIN, WE the voters did not and WOULD NOT even bother to help preserve any vestige of a Democratic majority anywhere in Congress.
That is NOT the Electoral College, that is NOT Russian interference, that is NOT Bernie v. Hillary or vice versa.

Sorry, but THAT boils down to LACK of voter turnout on the Democratic side, because the only thing that would have preserved our slim majority in the Senate is voters going to the polls and saving the seats we had, and maybe adding a few more.
We did not do that.
So, even if we wound up with Trump, at least we would have had a majority in the Senate to stop the hemorrhaging.

I keep saying it and it keeps getting ignored:
That scene in Ghostbusters where the fire marshall is warned to NOT shut down the "containment grid". The marshall prevails, the grid is shut down and all of the hobgoblins, ghosts and evil spirits go rushing out the top of the old Ghostbuster headquarters building and go sweeping through the city on a maniacal spree.

That is exactly what Republicans winning both chambers in Congress looked like, and don't doubt for one moment that they were shocked and orgasmically happy when they saw the results.

We did this to ourselves!
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305612 - 02/17/18 05:50 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
Jesus on a donkey strapped to a Budda Jeff,
With all the reporting on the grift, hubris and incompetency coming from that turd of a campaign, how is it that you reached the conclusion that it's the voters fault?
The mismanagement of DNC monies, the cronyism and racketeering of the DCCC. State party chairmen screaming for funding and 'how bout a coupla yard signs while your at it?!' . That organization gamed the primary, ran a board room suite candidate who could take Goldman money but couldn't get behind a $15/hr. Minimum wage but could maybe do $12.50/hr.
A major overhaul and realignment is what's needed in the party right now. Your not going to make that happen by blaming the voters for not falling in line for these third way democrats. Put the blame where it should be. Things have shifted dramatically in my district from financing to endorsing. All being done around the corporatist democratic leadership. They're losers who don't believing in anything but their rent seeking portfolios and incrementalism.

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#305613 - 02/17/18 06:43 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14195
Loc: Florida
Quote:
A major overhaul and realignment is what's needed in the party right now.

Well, yeah, but it's not gonna happen so you might as well sit home and not vote until the party comes around to your way of thinking.

Me, I'm gonna vote for the Democrat no matter who it is. Bernie...Hillary...whoever. I don't give a rat's ass as long as it's not a Republican.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#305614 - 02/17/18 06:59 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
A major overhaul and realignment is what's needed in the party right now.

Well, yeah, but it's not gonna happen so you might as well sit home and not vote until the party comes around to your way of thinking.

Me, I'm gonna vote for the Democrat no matter who it is. Bernie...Hillary...whoever. I don't give a rat's ass as long as it's not a Republican.

Who said anything about sitting home and waiting for the party to come around knocking ?
This is a participatory effort and it's smart to understand what the obstacles are. This is why there has been an energized mobilization at the street level and the candidates in our district are seeking the support. There's now a funding mechanism that is working outside the corrupt party finance racket. The list goes on.
Schlepping it down to the polls for whatever skunked beer boardroom candidate that could buy their way into the party has given us the situation we have today. Doing the same thing doesn't sound very productive for what's needed now.

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#305615 - 02/17/18 07:08 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
To risk repeating myself, all the candidates in my district are backing a $15/hr. Minimum wage. Legalizing weed, demilitarize police, medicaide for all, a green energy works project to name a few. These positions didn't arise from the third way democrats. I believe that they are an acknowledgement of the popularity of the sanders campaign and the recognition of failed incrementalism to excite the base to turn out to vote, IMO.
I also can't see the logic of the notion that having a banana sticker that says socialist was an insurmountable obstacle to winning in a general when the same could have been said about the opposition candidates observed shortcomings and yet he went on to win. Apparently, for all the disagreeable traits of the POTUS, none compare to having a socialist banana sticker.


Edited by chunkstyle (02/17/18 07:16 PM)

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#305625 - 02/18/18 12:47 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13267
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Jesus on a donkey strapped to a Budda Jeff,
With all the reporting on the grift, hubris and incompetency coming from that turd of a campaign, how is it that you reached the conclusion that it's the voters fault?
The mismanagement of DNC monies, the cronyism and racketeering of the DCCC. State party chairmen screaming for funding and 'how bout a coupla yard signs while your at it?!' . That organization gamed the primary, ran a board room suite candidate who could take Goldman money but couldn't get behind a $15/hr. Minimum wage but could maybe do $12.50/hr.
A major overhaul and realignment is what's needed in the party right now. Your not going to make that happen by blaming the voters for not falling in line for these third way democrats. Put the blame where it should be. Things have shifted dramatically in my district from financing to endorsing. All being done around the corporatist democratic leadership. They're losers who don't believing in anything but their rent seeking portfolios and incrementalism.


It still doesn't change the fact that voting for members of Congress in sufficient numbers would have preserved a majority.
And, if you look at the recent spate of upset elections, notice that the reboot IS indeed beginning from the ground up, because those winning candidates are mostly DFA or DSA, not Third Way, not Blue Dog and NOT DLC.

PS: I loved your "Jesus on a donkey strapped to a Buddha", but I am still sticking with my original Babay Jeebus meme:
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305630 - 02/18/18 04:16 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
Agreed Jeff,
There's a sad fact that a poor presidential candidate can suppress down ballot candidates. The opposite can also happen. Reports I've read have shown votes being cast for down ballot candidates and left the presidential choice blank. Further evidence of what an unpopular choice voters had to make.
Then there's the problem of nation wide neglect of the parties building of down ballot candidates happenning simultaneously as the Republican Party has been working overtime developing theirs. They have been running the boards with ALEX for the judiciary, the republican leadership council, colledge group organizing, gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc... They've had unchallenged congressional districts for years. To put it simply, they've out organized the Democratic Party.
So what else is new. At least the democrats once had the advantage of offering citizens bold ideas that would mitigate the viciousness of market forces or abuses of power structures. I don't believe your going to find those ideas in a living room on Martha's Vinyard or some Silicon Valley boardroom. This is why their needs to be street level participation.

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#305635 - 02/18/18 06:46 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13267
Loc: Whittier, California
All I can say is, I've been sensing a rumbling in the ground for the past year or so. The Democratic Party itself might be just as you say, but groups like Democracy for America and even the Democratic Socialists of America, are supplying the grass roots.
I know I dissed the DSA for their lackluster reaction to Bernie but they seem to be making up for it now, with candidates at the local level.
DSA is small potatoes still but DFA is now playing with big guns and playing for keeps.

I guess we'll see what happens in the Spring.
I hope I am not being overly optimistic but I sense that the folks in the DNC establishment are going to be in for something of a shock.
Complacency is a dangerous thing to get too comfortable with and the DNC establishment are the poster children.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305640 - 02/18/18 11:14 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
I had no idea the Dairy Farmers of America were so 'woke'.

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#305641 - 02/19/18 12:16 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: chunkstyle]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8867
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
You one damn funny actor, Chunks!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#305642 - 02/19/18 02:21 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7885
Loc: North San Diego County
Interesting info in the indictments: Russian trolls actually helped Sanders in the primary campaigns. So some Sanders supporters were Russian dupes. Like Republicans, Sanders was their favorite Democrat because their fake identity internet posting style could so easily defeat him.

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#305644 - 02/19/18 04:08 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13267
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Interesting info in the indictments: Russian trolls actually helped Sanders in the primary campaigns. So some Sanders supporters were Russian dupes. Like Republicans, Sanders was their favorite Democrat because their fake identity internet posting style could so easily defeat him.


It was and still is a lot more complicated than that.
The explanation contains glaring omissions.

Actually they only started out supporting Bernie in a perfunctory manner and that was only to draw in most of the inexperienced first time voters and fringe Bernie supporters. They switched to Jill Stein VERY quickly.

Go check out ANY Bernie Sanders page on Facebook, just as one interesting experiment, and note the hundreds, or even thousands of troll posts. It is now impossible, and HAS BEEN impossible, to carry on a discussion about Bernie on any of those pages, and it has been that way since about four to six months after they first appeared. Even Bernie's own Facebook page is completely trolled to the limit.
Most of the Bernie Facebook groups are de facto Jill Stein groups now, minus a name change.
And if you dare to suggest that they change the name, they will organize and "report your post" for offensive content, which will result in you losing your posting ability on Facebook temporarily, for a day, three days, thirty days or even 120 days.

I know, because I experienced it, and so have hundreds of other Bernie supporters I know.

I witnessed it FIRSTHAND. And I wasn't the only one.
Don't take my word for it, go check it out yourself.
And notice the JOIN DATE for most of the people trolling, most of them "joined Facebook" immediately after the 2016 campaign season started, and have minimal content on their home pages.

Go ahead, go see for yourself.
I dare anyone who doesn't believe me to go check it out.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305652 - 02/19/18 08:25 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7885
Loc: North San Diego County
I believe you. It's not that they were Bernie fans or Jill fans. Just anti-Clinton, who is known as pretty hard-line anti-Putin. If they could suck a bunch of potential Clinton supporters into wasting their votes, great for them.

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#305665 - 02/20/18 07:51 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13267
Loc: Whittier, California
All I know is, my friends and I were there.
We got to all these Bernie pages on Facebook and were having a grand old time discussing how we could help the old fart when suddenly it was like a mudslide in Montecito.
We'd leave one page or group in disgust, seek out an alternative, but pretty soon it was as if ALL pages and groups devoted to Bernie were being blanketed, almost like the soot and ash from a mega-volcanic eruption.

Even pages which had moderators, the mods couldn't keep up!
I know what a sock puppet poster looks and sounds like.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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