Current Topics
The End of the Independent Judiciary
by Ma_Republican
0 seconds ago
Our modern Sinclair Lewis?
by pondering_it_all
Today at 07:10 AM
Code for no black people': New York bar's 'racist' dress code sparks online deba
by pondering_it_all
Today at 06:57 AM
RoundTable for September 2018
by pondering_it_all
Today at 06:53 AM
Answer (Fredric Brown, 1954)
by pondering_it_all
Today at 06:41 AM
A time when politics were not all about greed
by pondering_it_all
Today at 06:35 AM
The United States v Donald Trump
by rporter314
09/24/18 12:54 PM
How the octopus got its smarts
by Ujest Shurly
09/24/18 02:32 AM
Returning rationality to public policy
by NW Ponderer
09/20/18 04:03 PM
The Savage Breast: A Music Clip Thread
by Golem
09/20/18 12:58 AM
Yom Kippur and Kol Nidre
by Golem
09/18/18 06:57 PM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by Golem
09/17/18 10:21 PM
Justice is coming
by jgw
09/17/18 09:37 PM
Flor-i-duh's Governor's Race
by Greger
09/17/18 06:19 PM
‘Unprecedented’: Natural gas expert says ‘over-pressurization’ may be to blame
by NW Ponderer
09/17/18 03:02 PM
George Conway rips Trump over tweet about Obama's '57 states' gaffe
by pdx rick
09/17/18 04:37 AM
Obama's Friday Speech
by pondering_it_all
09/14/18 06:51 AM
Woodward book breaks 93-year publishing record
by Greger
09/14/18 03:01 AM
Mike Rowe on Nike / Kaepernick and 9/11 hero Tom Burnett
by Greger
09/12/18 02:17 AM
The nuclear option
by Greger
09/12/18 01:22 AM
Forum Stats
6248 Members
58 Forums
16385 Topics
282020 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Topic Options
#304894 - 01/05/18 05:54 PM Syndicalism
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8872
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Good article
Quote:
...syndicalism is what happens when you take the basic unit of a market economy—the individual sole proprietor with no employees, who sells the product of his or her labor directly to customers—and maintain the same relationship with the means of production at a larger scale. In a capitalist society, only the owners of capital own the means of production: the mass of the population, not being rich enough to be able to invest in ownership of the means of production, are excluded from any economic activity other than selling their labor at whatever wages employers want to pay, and buying products at whatever price companies want to charge. In a socialist economy, no individual owns the means of production: everyone is an employee of the state, and the bureaucrats who draft the latest Five-Year Plan in blissful ignorance of shop-floor realities have no more of a personal stake in how things turn out than the working stiffs on the shop floor who have to carry out the dictates of the plan despite its obvious cluelessness.

In a syndicalist society, by contrast, every employee is an owner. Every employee benefits when the business prospers and suffers when the business takes a loss. Every employee has some influence over the management of the business—the usual approach is to have employees elect a board of directors, which then hires and fires the management personnel. Every employee thus has a personal stake in the business—and every business is owned and run by people who have a personal stake in its success. That’s one of the reasons syndicalism works well.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

Top
#304898 - 01/05/18 07:54 PM Re: Syndicalism [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7891
Loc: North San Diego County
The real world is not that simple: Lots of us have 401Ks and IRAs that own mutual funds or stocks. So almost everybody in America is a Capitalist. Almost everybody is also an employee too, but we are almost all free to go find work someplace else. We get to chose from a wide variety of shops to buy from, and some of us watch prices and respond to lower ones. I think one of the few places on Earth that is still Socialist enough to have the 5 year plan for starvation is North Korea.

Top
#304903 - 01/05/18 09:36 PM Re: Syndicalism [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16205
Other than the correct complaint that he misdefined socialism to begin with... This is an economic position I have advocated for a very long time. Normally they take the form of an ESOP, or Employee Stock Option Plan. Employee-ownership varies by degree from complete, to limited, but it makes for some very stable companies. Publix is one. The Employee Ownership 100: America's Largest Majority Employee-Owned Companies. I'm A YUGE fan. I think ALL publicly traded companies should be required to have 10% employee ownership.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#304904 - 01/05/18 09:54 PM Re: Syndicalism [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16205
I should have said, first, Good Article.

Top
#304909 - 01/06/18 01:45 AM Re: Syndicalism [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7891
Loc: North San Diego County
Funny thing. In my entire career of software engineering, from the earliest days to the last, I have NEVER done well with ESOP stock. It's generally been a disaster. All the guys who promptly exercised stock options and then sold them immediately so they could invest in diversified other stocks did much better.

Besides being too concentrated in one stock, the ESOP fans have all their investments in THE SAME COMPANY that gives them a paycheck! If the company has a problem it's ESOP stock goes down and it may have to lay you off at the same time. And exactly that has happened to me enough times to know better. For example, when your company is acquired by another, your ESOP stock can swing wildly and you may not be able to trade it for weeks or months because of SEC rules. By the time the "no sale" period is over it can be worth a quarter what it was.
_________________________
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

John Steinbeck

Top
#304912 - 01/06/18 09:09 AM Re: Syndicalism [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16205
ESOPs, properly structured, CAN be a good tool to give employees a stake in a company, but they are not panacea. No one should ever have all of their retirement tied up in one investment, and most ESOPs would be inadequate, anyway. For me, that's not the point. Research has shown that employees with a stake in a company make better workers. Unfortunately, as currently organized, the same cannot be said for their companies. There are exceptions. Chobani.

Top
#304916 - 01/06/18 05:26 PM Re: Syndicalism [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13271
Loc: Whittier, California
Syndicalism...wow...I like it.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

Top

Who's Online
0 registered (), 23 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TrentonP, Nosf50, erumonej, Jensen Breck, Albertapkr
6248 Registered Users
A2