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#304580 - 12/22/17 06:46 PM Re: Gut check [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 707
"And of course, please bear in mind that Hillary Clinton, despite everything you say about her crappy campaign and whatnot, won the popular vote by 3 million votes. "

Cold comfort Gregor. LOW VOTER TURNOUT.

She couldn't send a yard sign to Michigan. She represents whats wrong with the Party. They outspent Trump somewhere, though no one is sure where. More correct to say they out raised and suffered historic defeats up and down the ballots. That race was all and only about getting Hillary Rodham Clinton elected as president. Do we even know where all the money went yet?

Don't get me wrong, she was my state's senator and she kept our local VA open when they were consolidating them across the country. But the needles been moving into the red for far to many americans since her and her husbands 'Third Way' ideology saturated the Democratic parties management and ideology. There needs to be a reset here IMO.

What was possible was refused by collusion and corruption. That came straight out of Brooklyn.









Edited by chunkstyle (12/22/17 06:50 PM)

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#304586 - 12/22/17 10:31 PM Re: Gut check [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13867
Loc: Florida
Three. Million. VOTES.

Three Million more Democrats voted than Republicans. But they did it in the wrong places. That's what Democrats are up against. President Obama would have and could have done so much more if he hadn't been attacked on every front by blind hatred of anything verging on solutions from the left. Bernie or Hillary would have faced that same obstructionism.
Congressional Democrats have dealt with it for years. Gritting their teeth and veering to the right in order to stay in office. Even a slight misstep to the left and they get replaced by hard right Republican firebrands.

Quote:
There needs to be a reset here IMO.

On this we agree. Bernie showed us that it's possible to compete from the left. He even pushed Madam Clinton farther to the left than she ever thought she could go and win. Unfortunately she lost anyway, some might even say she lost because she moved too far to the left. I'd've liked to have seen Bernie take a clean win in the primaries and run head to head with Trump. It would have been a much more fun election. But I'm not convinced he would have won it...maybe, maybe not...anything about that is sheer speculation. After all, the polls showed a clear and easy win for Hillary. There was no reason for the DNC to change horses when their (pre)annointed candidate was running steadily ahead of Trump in the polls. Then came election night and a geographical anomaly put Trump into office instead of Hillary.

One of the saddest nights of my life. And trust me when I say that had it been Bernie instead if Hillary I would have been just as disappointed. The country seriously needs Democratic solutions.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."ó Oscar Wilde

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#304815 - 01/03/18 06:24 AM Re: Gut check [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12889
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Progressives need to take their party back is all I'm sayin


TOTAL AGREEMENT.
If Bernie wants to practice his mojo for Brand New Congress, he can do a world of good by exercising his crowdsourcing muscle, which is considerable, to raise funds to tear out the moldy muckety mucks and retool the party back to its liberal roots.
If we do this in time, the 2018 wins will like nothing this country has ever seen in decades, and Republicans will be finished, at least the kind we see today.
They would be obliterated.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."

----Leon Russell - "Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#304868 - 01/04/18 08:32 PM Re: Gut check [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15682
I've made my resolution for 2018. I'm putting my body where my mind is. If I have to travel to do it, I will. Washington is already Dem country (mostly). Progress needs to be pushed to the center of the country, and its rural parts.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304869 - 01/04/18 08:42 PM Re: Gut check [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15682
I'm getting bumper stickers made: "Ask me why I'm a Democrat."
Here's the start of an answer: I'm a Democrat because I believe in bettering America by bettering every person who lives in America. The Reason Why I'm A Democrat And Never Looking Back. The Odyssey online. The funny thing is, I've not been a Democrat until now. I've been happily independent. Bernie made me rethink my position.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#304882 - 01/05/18 02:27 AM Re: Gut check [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 707
How did Sanders campaign have you rethinking your 'independant' position NWP? I've been an independants this far along but like most things these days, I have begun to question it's effectiveness.

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#304883 - 01/05/18 03:33 AM Re: Gut check [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12889
Loc: Whittier, California
I can't speak for NWP but for me it was the cruel arithmetic of US presidential electoral politics. At the White House level, it's a football game, two teams, one wins and one loses.
That is never ever going to change unless we switch to a parliamentary system with a coalition style party layout.

What CAN and DOES change is the direction the two parties take, and their agenda. It is way past time to remake the Democratic Party again.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."

----Leon Russell - "Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#304884 - 01/05/18 03:59 AM Re: Gut check [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 707
No doubt Jeff, no doubt. Lots of heavy lifting for 2018. Lots done in 2017. This fight seems to be about Democracy vs. Corporate Fuedalism. We're deep in innings and down in runs. A good friend told me baseball is all about redemption. I hope there is still time to redeem democracy and public space.
Some green shoots

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#304885 - 01/05/18 04:39 AM Re: Gut check [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12889
Loc: Whittier, California
Excellent article, chunkster, gives me mountains of hope!
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."

----Leon Russell - "Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#304888 - 01/05/18 06:22 AM Re: Gut check [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3773
Loc: Eugene, OR
Quote:
gives me mountains of hope!


Thatís boo chit Jeff and you know it. The robots are coming (they are here actually) and they are just beginning their ascent. All of the low level, low skilled jobs will be replaced faster than one can say ďno--- they wonít replace meĒ.

There will be jobs available for some but they will require lots of technical skills and subsequent learning. A robot servicing mechanic comes to mind. And by this I mean a human--not a self learning robot.

Those who donít learn those skills high tech might survive. And hang on by the skin of their teeth in a subsistence world. But that will only be by their wits and tenaciousness in an ever more technological world that will indeed leave many (if not most) behind.

Of course subsistence living is always an option.
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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