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#316072 - 09/28/19 10:48 PM Re: Trump, you failed. Put America first. Walk away. [Re: Senator Hatrack]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
The 1964 Civil Rights Act was passed on July 2, 1964.

Indeed, without, Mr. Goldwater's vote. Mr. Goldwater was hedging his bets, he didn't think the Bill would pass Congress and he based his decision on flawed arguments of fellow Conservatives Robert Bork and William Rehnquist.

Oh well. Hmm
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#316073 - 09/28/19 10:53 PM Re: Trump, you failed. Put America first. Walk away. [Re: Doug Thompson]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA

...from your Southern Democrat link, sir:

Quote:
The weird thing about Jim Crow politics is that white southerners with conservative views on taxes, moral values, and national security would vote for Democratic presidential candidates who didn't share their views. They did that as part of a strategy for maintaining white supremacy in the South.

So when these "Jim Crow southern Democrats" rolled-over into the Republican party - they took their bigotry and racism with them - just as I have maintained in this thread. smile

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#316074 - 09/28/19 10:55 PM Re: Trump, you failed. Put America first. Walk away. [Re: Senator Hatrack]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42997
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Another regurgitation of the lie that Goldwater was a segregationist. This quote is from article I posted a link to in my first post showing how pdx rick is wrong. It also shows the pdx rick did not read the article.
Quote:
More specifically, Goldwater had problems with title II and Title VII of the 1964 bill. He felt that constitutionally the federal government had no legal right to interfere in who people hired, fired; or to whom they sold their products, goods, and services. He felt that “power” laid in the various states, and with the people. He was a strong advocate of the tenth amendment. Goldwater’s constitutional stance did not mean he agreed with the segregation and racial discrimination practiced in the South. To the contrary, he fought against these kinds of racial divides in his own state of Arizona. He supported the integration of the Arizona National Guard and Phoenix public schools. Goldwater was, also, a member of the NAACP and the Urban League.
A segregationist and a memeber of the NAACP?

Yes, I did see that. I thought it was good cover for Mr. Goldwater's vote. smile As I wrote, at the end of the day, Mr. Goldwater supported a state's right for segregation.

Mr. Goldwater can't have it both ways, because that seems spineless. Hmm
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#316075 - 09/28/19 10:58 PM Re: Trump, you failed. Put America first. Walk away. [Re: pdx rick]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Quote:
[Goldwater's] constituency was not little old ladies in tennis shoes, and it wasn't mad bombers, either. It was working-class white men in revolt against integration—the famous "backlash" voters. "The white backlash,"...

...

The Senate voted on the Civil Rights Act on June 19, 1964. It was one of the most intense and closely watched congressional actions of the decade, and the most widely publicized vote of Goldwater's Senate career: he had just become the likely Republican Presidential nominee by winning the California primary, less than three weeks before. He voted against the bill. Two weeks later, Lyndon Johnson (who had pushed the legislation, he maintained, as a tribute to the memory of John F. Kennedy) signed it into law.

New Yorker

What?!? Barry Goldwater voted agianst the 1964 Civil Rights' Bill? You don't say... coffee

...but wait! There's more New Yorker? Hmm

Quote:
[Goldwater] had believed all along that the Southern white vote was basically conservative and potentially Republican. Republicans, he told Georgia activists in 1961, ought to stop chasing the votes of African-Americans and "go hunting where the ducks are." And the ducks in 1964 turned out to be white Democrats in revolt against integration. Goldwater's campaign slogan, "In Your Heart You Know He's Right," was an arrow aimed directly at them. It was a clear allusion to a prejudice that dared not speak its name.

Oh my! There goes that Conservative rehabilitation of Mr. Goldwater. smile

Did yo read ALL of The New Yorker article you posted a link to pdx rick? This paragraph from the article you posted a link to shows that you didn't!
Quote:
Most of the twenty-seven senators who voted against the Civil Rights Act were Southern segregationists. Goldwater was not a segregationist, nor was he any kind of racist. He was, in fact, a lifelong opponent of racial discrimination. At the beginning of his political career, as a city councilman, he had led the fight to end segregation in the Phoenix public schools; his first staff assistant when he went to the Senate, as Perlstein tells us, was a black woman; he was a member of the N.A.A.C.P. Goldwater voted against the Civil Rights Act because he believed, as a conservative, that the federal government did not have the power to compel states to conform to its idea of racial equality, or to dictate to individuals whom they must associate with.
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#316076 - 09/28/19 11:03 PM Re: Trump, you failed. Put America first. Walk away. [Re: Senator Hatrack]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42997
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Did yo read ALL of The New Yorker article you posted a link to pdx rick? This paragraph from the article you posted a link to shows that you didn't!

I did! And, I formed my own opinion from what I read there and other sources.

Was Goldwater a full-on racist? No. What he a slight racist? Most likely. 49-51, I'd say.

The fact that Mr. Goldwater supported a states' right to segregation is what tips it to 51 for me - plus Goldwater listening to Bork and Rehnquist that the 1964 Civil Rights Act was unconstitutional is how I decided. smile
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#316077 - 09/28/19 11:14 PM Re: Trump, you failed. Put America first. Walk away. [Re: pdx rick]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Another regurgitation of the lie that Goldwater was a segregationist. This quote is from article I posted a link to in my first post showing how pdx rick is wrong. It also shows the pdx rick did not read the article.
Quote:
More specifically, Goldwater had problems with title II and Title VII of the 1964 bill. He felt that constitutionally the federal government had no legal right to interfere in who people hired, fired; or to whom they sold their products, goods, and services. He felt that “power” laid in the various states, and with the people. He was a strong advocate of the tenth amendment. Goldwater’s constitutional stance did not mean he agreed with the segregation and racial discrimination practiced in the South. To the contrary, he fought against these kinds of racial divides in his own state of Arizona. He supported the integration of the Arizona National Guard and Phoenix public schools. Goldwater was, also, a member of the NAACP and the Urban League.
A segregationist and a memeber of the NAACP?

Yes, I did see that. I thought it was good cover for Mr. Goldwater's vote. smile As I wrote, at the end of the day, Mr. Goldwater supported a state's right for segregation.

Mr. Goldwater can't have it both ways, because that seems spineless. Hmm

Yes, working to desegregate the public schools of Phoenix as a member of the city council is the work of a segregationist. Integrating the AZ National Guard as the Governor of AZ is the work of a segregationist. Spending his entire political career fighting segregation is the work of a segregationist. What Sen. Goldwater supported was federalism not state's rights. There is a difference.
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The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
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#316078 - 09/28/19 11:19 PM Re: Trump, you failed. Put America first. Walk away. [Re: Doug Thompson]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42997
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


The 1964 Civil Rights Act was passed on July 2, 1964. Goldwater voted against it. Four months later was the 1964 General Election. Do you think that Goldwater voting against the 1964 Civil Rights Act had anything to do with his defeat? Because Johnson won in a "landslide."

Hmm
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#316079 - 09/28/19 11:21 PM Re: Trump, you failed. Put America first. Walk away. [Re: Doug Thompson]
pdx rick Offline
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CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42997
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Also, from what I read (because I wasn't born yet), from that election onward, the terms "liberal Republican" and "conservative Democrat" officially referred to rare birds in the American political aviary.

This is where people get the idea of a "switch" of each of the party's liberal and conservative members. smile
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#316080 - 09/28/19 11:32 PM Re: Trump, you failed. Put America first. Walk away. [Re: pdx rick]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Did yo read ALL of The New Yorker article you posted a link to pdx rick? This paragraph from the article you posted a link to shows that you didn't!

I did! And, I formed my own opinion from what I read there and other sources.

Was Goldwater a full-on racist? No. What he a slight racist? Most likely. 49-51, I'd say.

The fact that Mr. Goldwater supported a states' right to segregation is what tips it to 51 for me - plus Goldwater listening to Bork and Rehnquist that the 1964 Civil Rights Act was unconstitutional is how I decided. smile
What Sen. Goldwater supported was the I and X Amendments.
Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The I Amendment protects your right to associate with whomever you choose to. That means that forced desegregation is just as bad as forced segregation. If our government can force you to associate with those you don't want to it is on its way to be a tyranny. The X Amendment reaffirms the right to associate with whomever you choose to. In other words people have the right to be racists if they want. Our government does not and should not tell how you must think and what you must believe.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#316082 - 09/28/19 11:37 PM Re: Trump, you failed. Put America first. Walk away. [Re: Senator Hatrack]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42997
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
The I Amendment protects your right to associate with whomever you choose to. That means that forced desegregation is just as bad as forced segregation.

Would you be upset if your grandkids were forced to accept black kids or Mexican kids who were bused into their school? Hmm

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
If our government can force you to associate with those you don't want to it is on its way to be a tyranny. The X Amendment reaffirms the right to associate with whomever you choose to. In other words people have the right to be racists if they want. Our government does not and should not tell how you must think and what you must believe.

Yes, people have the right to be racist, and other people have the right to acknowledge the racism of the first group. smile
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