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#305012 - 01/12/18 11:16 AM Re: Let's check in on the cattle abusers, deadbeat grazers, wildlife squatter Bundys [Re: pdx rick]
bigswede Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/25/16
Posts: 323
Federal Judge Gloria Navarro tossed the whole case out of court. She later declared federal agencies had behaved so badly and possibly in conflict with the Constitution, that they will not be permitted to reopen the case against Cliven Bundy.

Comments?
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#305013 - 01/12/18 11:37 AM Re: Let's check in on the cattle abusers, deadbeat grazers, wildlife squatter Bundys [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8063
Loc: North San Diego County
I think he is absolutely guilty on all charges BUT when prosecutors screw up as bad as they did, you have to dismiss with prejudice. They did not just screw up one or two little things, they suppressed evidence, they lied in court, etc. If they had just presented the case like they were supposed to, he would have been found guilty. This is all on them, and they should be fired and disbarred for life at the least.

There are far too many prosecutors who seem to think justice is only about winning, and have no respect for the rules. I just read an article about prosecutors who try to keep victims in prison even when there is absolute proof that somebody else did the crime.

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#305017 - 01/12/18 12:10 PM Re: Let's check in on the cattle abusers, deadbeat grazers, wildlife squatter Bundys [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16363
The Bundys have escaped Justice again, no doubt, but he'll still have to deal with his misconduct soon. I agree that it was prosecutorial misconduct that created the miscarriage, but that is why we have rules. Interestingly, the government can appeal that decision (since it didn't reach the merits), but I doubt they will. They can just wait until he does something else stupid. Pretty soon he's going to be out of property, too. He still owes the government millions.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305019 - 01/12/18 01:05 PM Re: Let's check in on the cattle abusers, deadbeat grazers, wildlife squatter Bundys [Re: pdx rick]
bigswede Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/25/16
Posts: 323
General Motors was bailed out. To big to fail, I guess.
Cliven Bundy must fail. To small to be saved.
I may be an atheist, but I do remember this, Matthew 25:40-45
_________________________
Cowardly men always plot to label Freedom as anarchy!

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#305020 - 01/12/18 03:02 PM Re: Let's check in on the cattle abusers, deadbeat grazers, wildlife squatter Bundys [Re: bigswede]
rporter314 Online   content
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6565
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
federal agencies had behaved so badly and possibly in conflict with the Constitution

so you are saying occupying federal land in contradiction to the law is behaving properly?

Why if Mr Trump believes he is above the law do you believe Bundy is above the law? Are you above the law? Is everyone above the law? Is the rule of law in this country or not?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#305021 - 01/12/18 03:03 PM Re: Let's check in on the cattle abusers, deadbeat grazers, wildlife squatter Bundys [Re: bigswede]
rporter314 Online   content
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6565
Loc: Highlands, Tx
inappropriate comparison
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#305022 - 01/12/18 03:05 PM Re: Let's check in on the cattle abusers, deadbeat grazers, wildlife squatter Bundys [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Online   content
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6565
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
the Bundy clan are idiots

yep ... and idiocy is protected under the Constitution. The Constitution they want to use as toilet paper.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#305024 - 01/12/18 04:12 PM Re: Let's check in on the cattle abusers, deadbeat grazers, wildlife squatter Bundys [Re: rporter314]
bigswede Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/25/16
Posts: 323
Originally Posted By: rporter314

so you are saying occupying federal land in contradiction to the law is behaving properly?

Due process my dear, due process! That is what signifies a true and just government.
_________________________
Cowardly men always plot to label Freedom as anarchy!

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#305036 - 01/12/18 06:18 PM Re: Let's check in on the cattle abusers, deadbeat grazers, wildlife squatter Bundys [Re: bigswede]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16363
Due Process does require appropriate judicial procedures, and, as the saying goes... "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer". We use the expression, "innocent until proven guilty" in criminal prosecutions (which actually has its roots in Talmudic law). So judicial process requires, essentially, that the government be punished for misconduct through dismissal of criminal charges.

Note, however, that dismissal is not a finding of "innocence", which often causes many people heartburn (on both sides of the equation). Joe Arpaio was "pardoned", not exonerated (and doesn't understand what that means, if public statements are to be believed). So, although he cannot be prosecuted for these particular offenses, his problems don't go away.

Unfortunately for the interests of justice, the department thereof is headed by a man who doesn't believe in the concept (unless it involves disadvantaging the disadvantaged). Until he is gone, nothing will happen, and Bundy is well aware of this. Also, unfortunately, miscreants will be emboldened by this reality.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305042 - 01/13/18 01:07 AM Re: Let's check in on the cattle abusers, deadbeat grazers, wildlife squatter Bundys [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Online   content

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14411
Loc: Florida
Quote:
miscreants will be emboldened by this reality.

Yah, maybe so...but I find it unlikely that any "miscreants' will be seizing Federal property under Trump's watch.

Unless of course the aforementioned miscreants might be extreme leftists like the antifa squad or suchlike and I'd strongly recommend none of them try something like the righties did out west, they'll be shot on sight.
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