Current Topics
Another Solution
by Greger
Today at 03:11 AM
Why Record $1.465 Trillion Student Debt Could Test U.S. Economy
by jgw
Yesterday at 11:10 PM
RoundTable for December 2018
by logtroll
Yesterday at 09:50 PM
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by pondering_it_all
Yesterday at 07:57 PM
Historic Corruption
by pondering_it_all
Yesterday at 07:39 PM
Yes, John Edwards is a precedent - that is bad for Trump
by pondering_it_all
Yesterday at 03:37 AM
Justice is coming
by jgw
12/17/18 10:24 PM
ICE - the new gestapo
by jgw
12/16/18 07:24 PM
What Left?
by jgw
12/16/18 07:17 PM
Archie Moore vs Yvon Durelle, December 10, 1958
by Greger
12/14/18 04:27 PM
Judge orders porn star Stormy Daniels to pay Trump $293,000 in attorneys' fees,
by pondering_it_all
12/12/18 09:51 PM
Election Day
by NW Ponderer
12/12/18 03:42 PM
The Passing Parade: Obituaries: 2018
by Golem
12/10/18 09:15 PM
Smart watches: Need Xmas Advice for Wifey
by rporter314
12/10/18 04:32 PM
None of the Above (NOTA)
by rporter314
12/09/18 06:03 PM
Israel negotiating with Hungary on revisionist Holocaust museum
by pondering_it_all
12/07/18 11:22 PM
Brexit Eve
by NW Ponderer
12/04/18 04:26 PM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by Jeffery J. Haas
12/04/18 12:52 AM
Our political elders
by Greger
12/03/18 02:52 AM
Round table NOVEMBER 2018
by pondering_it_all
12/01/18 07:59 PM
Forum Stats
6248 Members
58 Forums
16432 Topics
283304 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 47 of 58 < 1 2 ... 45 46 47 48 49 ... 57 58 >
Topic Options
#305380 - 01/30/18 06:44 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Ma_Republican]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6568
Loc: Highlands, Tx
LOL ... so you are optimistically speculating and believe that is realistic ... I think you should take a long hard look in the mirror

reality bites:
1. if conservatives insist on "the Wall" there will be no DACA solution. conservatives and Mr Trump are holding the DACA folks hostage so they can say they solved a problem. Conservatives rely on perspectives which incite their ignorant base ... "they're coming across the border and Dems want them to" ... really?
2. illegal immigration is on the uptick .... wait for it ... during the Trump presidency
3. why would any country agree to any trade agreement which puts them at a disadvantage? You really believe Mr Trump can bully countries to do what he wants them to do?
4. facts matter ... the global GDP is running about 3.4% ... the US GDP is about 2.6% ... what you won't recognize is the GDP has been going up every year since 2010 and yet it is lower than the global GDP and BRIC is rising faster than the US rate ... so GDP is simply a continuation of the previous inertia and is being pulled up by global demands. I hope you didn't think Mr Trump did that all on his own?

unemployment is a continuation of the previous direction of work but the jobs creation number is lower than Pres Obama's last year.

I rather suspect you have been seduced by Trump propaganda and so ignore the facts. Here is an example of that propaganda: several companies are giving employees bonuses, raises, etc, the Trump administration is claiming that proves their tax bill is working. No it actually does not prove anything, but that will not stop you from believing it does. Consider the projection of one company is a 3% rise in wages. Sounds good, but when adjusted for inflation of 2%, we have a real wage increase of only 1% down from last years 1.9%.

Reality is a bitch.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#305381 - 01/30/18 06:45 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13420
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Every major institution of the country I love is under sustained attack, every principle undergirding our country is being deliberately undermined. And for what? I really think it's evil. Just pure malice. It really hurts.


It is NOT JUST pure malice.
In order to install authoritarian theocratic fascism, which IS the ACTUAL admitted default of the Christian Taliban, AND the most convenient COVER FOR the billionaire elites, the institutions of democratic civil society must be softened up, corrupted, weakened, and finally, destroyed.
The final step after the daunting tornado of destruction is a global crisis, one which grips this nation in a desperate panic, one in which the American people will literally BEG for a strongman to rescue them.

That is indeed when you shall see PURE EVIL and MALICE, wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross, my friend.

Sea changes like this are never ever just about the baser instincts of ordinary greed. They are always about greed, and CONQUEST.
Add in the Messianic vision of the Christian Right and you have people who see themselves as gods walking the Earth.

History shows a very clear lesson on where this sort of thing always leads. It's now been a generation or more since the last time, and in the intervening years a new generation has been shielded from the horrors their parents knew, and they've begun to embrace an evil which was once thought wiped out for eternity.

Slouching toward the New Kristallnacht...
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

Top
#305383 - 01/30/18 07:18 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6505
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: rporter314
LOL ... so you are optimistically speculating and believe that is realistic ... I think you should take a long hard look in the mirror

reality bites:
1. if conservatives insist on "the Wall" there will be no DACA solution. conservatives and Mr Trump are holding the DACA folks hostage so they can say they solved a problem. Conservatives rely on perspectives which incite their ignorant base ... "they're coming across the border and Dems want them to" ... really?
2. illegal immigration is on the uptick .... wait for it ... during the Trump presidency
3. why would any country agree to any trade agreement which puts them at a disadvantage? You really believe Mr Trump can bully countries to do what he wants them to do?
4. facts matter ... the global GDP is running about 3.4% ... the US GDP is about 2.6% ... what you won't recognize is the GDP has been going up every year since 2010 and yet it is lower than the global GDP and BRIC is rising faster than the US rate ... so GDP is simply a continuation of the previous inertia and is being pulled up by global demands. I hope you didn't think Mr Trump did that all on his own?

unemployment is a continuation of the previous direction of work but the jobs creation number is lower than Pres Obama's last year.

I rather suspect you have been seduced by Trump propaganda and so ignore the facts. Here is an example of that propaganda: several companies are giving employees bonuses, raises, etc, the Trump administration is claiming that proves their tax bill is working. No it actually does not prove anything, but that will not stop you from believing it does. Consider the projection of one company is a 3% rise in wages. Sounds good, but when adjusted for inflation of 2%, we have a real wage increase of only 1% down from last years 1.9%.

Reality is a bitch.


Three years out the scenario is just as realistic as any other one. Also, Trump has offered to legalize 1.8 million people, it is the Dems who are stopping it from happening. Do I believe it is a ploy, probably, but they knew that the Dems were lying through their teeth. The Dems don't care about the DACA kids, they only care about scoring political points.

I still believe that Donald Trump is a moron, somebody who shouldn't be President. He is, however, President and therefore has the bully pulpit. He beat Hillary and he will probably beat he detractors in Congress. His style isn't something I enjoy, but if he continues to succeed, I will reassess his fitness for the office. The only qualifications for the office is age, US citizenship and the number of votes in the Electoral College. Maybe has us all fooled, and this is just an act? Either way, he is on a winning streak and the longer you guys try to put him into a political box, the more likely it is that his efforts will succeed.

It has actually been kind of fun, as long as I can ignore the fact that he is a moron.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

Top
#305385 - 01/30/18 07:39 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Ma_Republican]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13420
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican

Three years out the scenario is just as realistic as any other one. Also, Trump has offered to legalize 1.8 million people, it is the Dems who are stopping it from happening. Do I believe it is a ploy, probably, but they knew that the Dems were lying through their teeth. The Dems don't care about the DACA kids, they only care about scoring political points.


But we'll just pretend that being unable to bring a bill to the floor, or even initiate discussion, is also part of "the Democratic Party ploy"?
Honestly Tim, your pretense that the Dems, who have absolutely ZERO power, are going to then ignore the one thing they have left at their disposal, is thick and absurdly partisan.

I'm sure you won't believe THIS lib-tard, but I am actually okay with us transitioning to a merit based immigration system and imposing quotas on how many legal immigrants come in, but here's the catch, one which I suspect future administrations on both sides will chafe at:

It must be independent, stable, and be run with a long-term view and not subject to every little blip in the economy, every little pet peeve of some poobah, petty or grand.
It must be apolitical in the general sense, and it must be presented as the de facto long term blueprint that prospective immigrants can count on.
Choosing to leave one's homeland is a huge undertaking, and most immigrants would prefer to find an honorable excuse to "fall in love", at least a little bit, with their new home, to whatever extent is possible.

No more recruiting braceros by Del Monte buses when we're at war, then turning around and calling them "wetbacks" when the GI's come home, and busing them BACK by the millions to the middle of the desert with no water.

No more embracing them in order to displace American born Chicanos and desperate Okies fleeing the Dust Bowl, then subjecting their kids to raids just as they are wrapping up their college education.
No more deporting productive and honorable 30-40 year green card holders who are guilty of the equivalent of an unpaid parking ticket.

No more splitting apart families, no more profiting off their misery in for profit private detention facilities.

We're either welcoming them in as per The Statue of Liberty or we're saying that we're full up for the year, try again next year.

And no more classifying valid refugees as criminal border jumpers.
When the citizens of the world acknowledge that a land is gripped by terror, or when the evidence proves that our actions contributed to current events which promulgated that flow of refugees, we are to do the right and honorable thing by them.
We are AMERICANS.

When right, to be kept right, and when wrong, to be made right.

That above phrase is the SECOND half of the famous:
"My country, right or wrong" meme.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

Top
#305388 - 01/30/18 08:02 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6505
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican

Three years out the scenario is just as realistic as any other one. Also, Trump has offered to legalize 1.8 million people, it is the Dems who are stopping it from happening. Do I believe it is a ploy, probably, but they knew that the Dems were lying through their teeth. The Dems don't care about the DACA kids, they only care about scoring political points.


But we'll just pretend that being unable to bring a bill to the floor, or even initiate discussion, is also part of "the Democratic Party ploy"?
Honestly Tim, your pretense that the Dems, who have absolutely ZERO power, are going to then ignore the one thing they have left at their disposal, is thick and absurdly partisan.

I'm sure you won't believe THIS lib-tard, but I am actually okay with us transitioning to a merit based immigration system and imposing quotas on how many legal immigrants come in, but here's the catch, one which I suspect future administrations on both sides will chafe at:

It must be independent, stable, and be run with a long-term view and not subject to every little blip in the economy, every little pet peeve of some poobah, petty or grand.
It must be apolitical in the general sense, and it must be presented as the de facto long term blueprint that prospective immigrants can count on.
Choosing to leave one's homeland is a huge undertaking, and most immigrants would prefer to find an honorable excuse to "fall in love", at least a little bit, with their new home, to whatever extent is possible.

No more recruiting braceros by Del Monte buses when we're at war, then turning around and calling them "wetbacks" when the GI's come home, and busing them BACK by the millions to the middle of the desert with no water.

No more embracing them in order to displace American born Chicanos and desperate Okies fleeing the Dust Bowl, then subjecting their kids to raids just as they are wrapping up their college education.
No more deporting productive and honorable 30-40 year green card holders who are guilty of the equivalent of an unpaid parking ticket.

No more splitting apart families, no more profiting off their misery in for profit private detention facilities.

We're either welcoming them in as per The Statue of Liberty or we're saying that we're full up for the year, try again next year.

And no more classifying valid refugees as criminal border jumpers.
When the citizens of the world acknowledge that a land is gripped by terror, or when the evidence proves that our actions contributed to current events which promulgated that flow of refugees, we are to do the right and honorable thing by them.
We are AMERICANS.

When right, to be kept right, and when wrong, to be made right.

That above phrase is the SECOND half of the famous:
"My country, right or wrong" meme.





Lets start with the DACA kids. These are people who had no choice and didn't really do anything wrong. Trump offered to allow 1.8 million apply for citizenship, implement that.

I have to admit that the current immigration system is so deeply flawed that the only solution that I can come up with is a mote with alligators and machine gun armed guard towers, but that is me. You underestimate the amount of power that the minority actually has under the current rules. As was shown with the shutdown, the Dems can easily apply pressure, they just chose the wrong issue to use.

Look, this is an easy issue. They came in illegally, they shouldn't be allowed to stay. Most immigrants today add nothing to the modern society. They do not learn the language, they do not integrate into society and they tend to segregate themselves. This behavior leads to no go zones, gangs and violence. Don't believe me? Try walking around at night in little Havana in Miami and see how you fare.

I really do sympathize, but they have overrun the country to the point where they have to be forced out. If it is a hardship to them, just think of the hardship it is for the US. My children are the lucky ones, they actually found jobs as teens. The jobs that you and I had when we were 14 and 15 are now being manned by illegal aliens. The inner city jobs, also being manned by illegal aliens. What happens when kids have too much time on their hands? They do stupid things, they get involved in stupid things and they get in trouble. Hell, in my little town of 17,000 we have had multiple ICE raids on Dunkin Donuts and gas stations. Suddenly, these establishments are putting out help wanted signs and demanding proof of citizenship.

Time for them to leave, let them straighten out their own country, instead of infecting the US.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

Top
#305390 - 01/30/18 08:21 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Ma_Republican]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6568
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
Time for them to leave ... instead of infecting the US.


I was writing a refutation until I read the last line of your vitriol. You and Stephan Miller enjoy lunch talking about the cockroaches infesting America.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#305391 - 01/30/18 08:37 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6505
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
Time for them to leave ... instead of infecting the US.


I was writing a refutation until I read the last line of your vitriol. You and Stephan Miller enjoy lunch talking about the cockroaches infesting America.



From dictionary.com
[in-fest]
to be numerous in, as anything undesirable or troublesome

Looks pretty accurate to me.

It really is simple. They are illegal aliens for a reason, they do not belong here, they came here without permission and they should never have been allowed to linger in the US this long. They should go home and reap the results of their abandoning their people and their country. Instead of staying and making a difference, they ran away to live in a foreign country, refusing to integrate into their now surroundings and failing to follow the laws of their new country. Yeah, they deserve to be kicked out on their ass.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

Top
#305393 - 01/30/18 09:27 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Ma_Republican]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8084
Loc: North San Diego County
What a mixed up mess of contradictions: You seem to be painting every undocumented person with the "rapist, cop-killer, gang member" paintbrush!
Quote:
refusing to integrate into their now surroundings

Like there was any program for them to do that!

Quote:
failing to follow the laws of their new country

Statistics show again and again that these "illegals" are actually much more law-abiding than the average citizen! Most undocumented people are very careful to NEVER break any laws because they can be deported. Most never have anything to do with police or other government officials even if they are crime victims, and most pay into Social Security and Medicare with no chance of ever collecting anything. They actually subsidize our Social Security to the tune of millions of dollars every year. Avoiding contact with government officials is especially a disincentive to try to vote: It gets them nothing and exposes them to great danger.

Many were brought here as children and had no control over the country they grew up in, and don't even speak the language of the country you want to deport them to. Some have even taken part in our system enough to have college degrees, and you want to deport them after we have spent all that money to train them to be valuable contributors to our society.

Top
#305395 - 01/30/18 10:26 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Online   sad
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16382
It is very difficult, MaR, to respond when your diatribe is so far divorced from reality that it's impossible to find a reference point to begin. I'll have to wait until I'm at my computer to properly respond, but let me try this to begin:

Please provide evidence; a citation based upon facts, not conjecture or belief, that supports any one of your numerous assertions. I dare say, you've never been to "Little Havana". If so, please provide proof. A photo, perhaps?

I'm being open-ended here. You have lots of targets to choose from. My perception is that these opinions are formed from "beliefs", not reality. I'm open to proof. To date, you have provided none, nor any evidence that they are not just regurgitated talking points.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#305397 - 01/30/18 11:39 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
Quote:
NWP said:
Please provide evidence; a citation based upon facts, not conjecture or belief, that supports any one of your numerous assertions.


I admit that I haven't read every posting on CHB, but I have never seen MaR cite evidence, though I have often seen requests.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

Top
Page 47 of 58 < 1 2 ... 45 46 47 48 49 ... 57 58 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 37 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TrentonP, Nosf50, erumonej, Jensen Breck, Albertapkr
6248 Registered Users
A2