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#305130 - 01/16/18 07:45 PM Underclass
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2202
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I have noticed that there are several readers of science fiction on this site. I just thought I would point out that in most of science fiction, when they are building or describing a given society, there is, almost always, a place for the unemployed, left out, poor, etc. in all cities. In most cases these places are controlled by criminals and police rarely enter. This is simply a given and not, for the most part, justified but is simply there.

I bring this up because we are well on our way to that kind of world. India, for instance, has had that situation for a very long time. Given the continued rise of the homeless I believe the United States is headed that way at breakneck speed and we will, within 10 years, have recognizable areas set aside for the losers of our society. A place where these folks can, basically, destroy themselves and each other. We are already seeing this, to one degree or another, in the larger homeless camps. I also suspect that this cannot be rolled back, fixed, etc. and gov, eventually, is going to have to come to terms on this one and it will be interesting how it plays out. The last stab at that were the huge housing complexes for blacks and we all know how successful that was. Perhaps somebody will figure it all out but, I doubt it. My doubt is based on the obvious inability of gov to admit any possibility that they might have made a mistake or have a serious societal problem. Its pretty hard to deal with a problem when the problem isn't even recognized. I don't see this one changing real soon either.

Just saying...............

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#305137 - 01/16/18 10:27 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8084
Loc: North San Diego County
San Diego has a program right now of housing the homeless in tents, but then moving them into actual legal rental apartments or houses. Turns out it is cheaper to pay homeless people's rent than to have to deal with them on the street! Sounds like a minimum income to me, which apparently would only cost us 1% of our GDP.

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#305140 - 01/17/18 01:55 AM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13420
Loc: Whittier, California
Los Angeles is also currently looking into making use of vacant land and trailers. We'll see how it goes.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#305149 - 01/17/18 10:21 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8084
Loc: North San Diego County
There should be a radically different standard for housing the homeless. There's really no need to give them standard apartments or houses. Tiny houses would be fine. Or a warehouse divided into tiny rooms.

Save the houses for homeless families with kids. Not very many of those.

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#305150 - 01/17/18 11:23 PM Re: Underclass [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13420
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
There should be a radically different standard for housing the homeless. There's really no need to give them standard apartments or houses. Tiny houses would be fine. Or a warehouse divided into tiny rooms.

Save the houses for homeless families with kids. Not very many of those.


It's even possible to make an exception for a "Tuff-Shed" style unit to be used in specifically exempted locations, with a disclaimer and means testing, and with a path toward moving the homeless into real housing at some point.

Have you SEEN some of these Tuff-Shed units? Some of them are pretty impressive and aren't really sheds at all.

Tuff Shed "tiny houses"
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#305151 - 01/18/18 01:32 AM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8084
Loc: North San Diego County
Yeah, you can put one house on a quarter acre lot or about 20 of those for less than half the price. Makes perfect sense but I guess landlords would get upset that the city is not renting their full-sized houses.

We need some legislation that exempts these from all sorts of zoning rules, density requirements, and building codes. Make a new set of rules for temporary housing for the homeless. So put them in out-of-the way industrial areas next to a the weed dispensary and a porn shop. As long as they are near a bus stop, that should be fine.

And you can install some cameras and microphones outside so police can keep an eye on them too.

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#305153 - 01/18/18 03:33 AM Re: Underclass [Re: pondering_it_all]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 389
Loc: Upstate NY
Tents might work in San Diego but not so well in the frigid Nawth. Even a cheapo 1 room efficiency, in many cities, excluding San Fran and NYC, is very cost effective compared to the community expense of emergency room visits for the "frequent flyers".

Although, I hear that there is a Ryan plan for centralized winter Medicaid centers, utilizing tents in Minnesota, that will dramatically reduce Federal costs, even considering the the transportation costs involved in the Summer transition to the summer Arizona tent cities run by the newest Senator-elect!

Just another modest proposal.
Tat


Edited by TatumAH (01/18/18 03:34 AM)
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
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#305155 - 01/18/18 04:12 AM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8084
Loc: North San Diego County
It has been getting down to 40 F in San Diego, so it does get a little cold. These are circus-sized tents with double layers and insulation between the layers. As a structure gets bigger the surface area to volume ratio goes down, so one big tent is cheaper to heat than a lot of little tents. Still, it's better than sleeping in an alley with newspapers for insulation!

The important thing is that the program of winter-shelter has been expanded to include placement in real housing for the residents. San Diego has historically been pretty laissez-faire about housing the winter homeless once the spring comes. In the past they just went back to the streets. Now San Diego has been dealing with a bad Hepatitis A outbreak from all the street-poop. This is a real public health problem now in that it affects everybody who walks around downtown, including rich people! They tried just sterilizing the streets with bleach, but it isn't effective when homeless hep-carriers keep on pooping. They finally realized they have to solve the homeless problem by giving the homeless homes with actual toilets.

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#305156 - 01/18/18 04:15 AM Re: Underclass [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13420
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Yeah, you can put one house on a quarter acre lot or about 20 of those for less than half the price. Makes perfect sense but I guess landlords would get upset that the city is not renting their full-sized houses.

We need some legislation that exempts these from all sorts of zoning rules, density requirements, and building codes. Make a new set of rules for temporary housing for the homeless. So put them in out-of-the way industrial areas next to a the weed dispensary and a porn shop. As long as they are near a bus stop, that should be fine.

And you can install some cameras and microphones outside so police can keep an eye on them too.


According to the news, that is precisely what they are doing.
Emphasis on the notion that this is TEMPORARY housing. If you wind up getting to stay in one of these, the pressure is then on for you to get gainful employment, seek housing assistance to get permanent accomodations and move on up the ladder. Then they can turn over the sheds to a new homeless person who is on the bottom.

Exemptions ARE being made, security is on site 24/7, common toilet and washing areas. No electric in the sheds but battery power is apparently available.

This is the route that LA County says it wants to pursue.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#305158 - 01/18/18 04:36 AM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8084
Loc: North San Diego County
I would think they should at least have electric lights available in the sheds, if not outlets. They don't really need outlets if they have separate food, bathroom with showers, and laundry facilities. And of course, getting people up and out working is a nice idea but most homeless are too screwed up to find employment. Nobody wants to hire a raging alcoholic or a person in a running conversation with Jesus.

So the "temporary" aspect is just until there are no more crazy or addicted people.

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