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#305163 - 01/18/18 03:08 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13420
Loc: Whittier, California
I can see why the 110 VAC isn't going to be made available, fire danger, and they probably couldn't get around exemptions because of litigation purposes.

PIA, not all homeless in these encampments are alkies, druggies or lunatics.
You'd be surprised at how they wind up self-segregating.
There's groupings, a surprising number of single mothers with kids and even entire families. The LA Unified School District provided some of the numbers because kids who enrolled could not provide a street address. They didn't have one.

12 volt or 5 volt DC can do an amazing number of things.
You might not be able to run a coffee maker, hair dryer or hot plate but it's possible to operate almost anything else, or some VERSION of "anything else".

Simply put, if you can run it off a ciggie lighter or USB port, you're good to go.

I am not surprised that these temp shacks were limited to "Class 2 wiring" at all.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#305166 - 01/18/18 06:27 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8084
Loc: North San Diego County
Absolutely, if you give them 120 VAC outlets some bozo will leave a hot plate running and burn the place down. But you do need to give them one electric light and some sort of heat. Maybe that's in the form of a 12 volt sealed light fixture with no exposed wiring and a boiler with radiators in each tiny house. So they are not stumbling around in the dark and freezing.

If they want to manage their own batteries, there's not much you can do to stop them. I guess you could give them a USB port so they could charge cell phones or even access the internet if they had a computer. Getting a job can require both these days. I guess the facility should also have some computers available for applying for jobs and getting email. But those should be porn-blocked and in public space or they will be abused.

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#305167 - 01/18/18 07:23 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13420
Loc: Whittier, California
From what I saw, they're going to provide some kind of Class 2 wiring, which means 12 volt or 5 volt DC, with the latter being that USB you referred to, also LED lighting.
There's a lot to be said for the ingeniousness of THIS idea:

Liter of Light

Computers? Leave them to their own ideas, because if the city is going to do municipal broadband, you can't tell people not to use it, and some of them do have cell phones anyway, they just can't afford an apartment.
It is possible to work a minimum wage or slightly higher job and have a 40 dollar phone/data plan and food, just not RENT. The forty bucks isn't going to make rent paid either. The "lifeline" style phone and data plans also are still available, at least for now. That started out as a landline service in the 80's and has now morphed to accommodate cellular.

Heat? It's Southern California, so heating isn't as big a problem as it might be elsewhere, thankfully.

I've seen some of these working homeless come up with clever ways to replicate civilized conditions in their meager enclaves.
A few have scavenged or bought small solar panels to keep battery packs charged so that they can generate their own low wattage 110 VAC, typically under 250 watts. That's because, like I said, some of these people are there not because they're bums but because of financial catastrophes and they are still smart enough to figure out workarounds.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#305242 - 01/22/18 11:56 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2202
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
What you are talking about, I think, is for gov to setup some kind of 'home' for the homeless. Once they figure out what works best just watch the right see yet another opportunity to privatize and then raise the rent to the taxpayers.

Interesting times.............

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#305246 - 01/23/18 03:51 AM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13420
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: jgw
What you are talking about, I think, is for gov to setup some kind of 'home' for the homeless. Once they figure out what works best just watch the right see yet another opportunity to privatize and then raise the rent to the taxpayers.

Interesting times.............


They won't have an easy time doing that in California but I get your point.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#305252 - 01/23/18 11:38 AM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8084
Loc: North San Diego County
You either spend the money on housing, or spend it on public health what with all the street-poop and hepatitis. In San Diego, they found that housing them was cheaper.

Now we'll see how much cheaper they can make it.

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#305257 - 01/24/18 07:23 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2202
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Seattle figured that one out about 2 years ago. The problem remains that there is not enough money to house something over 10,000 people (I think they have more than that but its close). The problem with the homeless is that they are just not the homeless. For instance, Port Angeles is one of about 6 communities who setup a community health care thing. Now its something like the 3rd largest industry and they have many squirreled away in a number of houses whilst they are prepared to re-join society. When they do that they load them up in a bus, take them to Seattle or Tacoma, open the door and announce they are free. Most become part of the homeless thing. Then there are the druggies, they too are included in 'homeless'. Its also been found that unless you vet who goes where it becomes a genuine mess. As far as the mentally ill folks, they just don't stand a chance in hell. Their plight is built around the conviction that putting folks in institutions is a terrible thing to do. So, instead, our current plan is to throw them all out on the street, and then call them bums and beggars.

Between the lying jackass, and our 'kindly' ways, we are well on our way to being a genuine S**thole.

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#305261 - 01/24/18 09:05 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8084
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
The problem remains that there is not enough money to house something over 10,000 people


There's not enough money to buy them all a nice house in the suburbs, but I think there IS enough if you lower your standards a lot. For example, if you build lots of tiny houses. Or make tiny, low-cost apartments. The fundamental obstacle to that is government regulations: Building codes and zoning rules.

We really need an alternate housing set of rules, that have nothing to do with existing building codes, and new zoning categories that allow dense housing for the homeless. Government does not even need to fund the building! All they need to do is get out of the way.

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#305282 - 01/26/18 08:50 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2202
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
so, a really cheap little house goes for about 8,000.00 So, if the number of homeless is 10,00 (in Seattle area) then it would cost 80 million (in march they say there were over 11,000). The 80 million does not count the cost of the land or installation. The really cheap way is the old way of build projects and we all know how that has worked out. The problem, I suspect, will be in the grouping. It gets kinda complex I fear.

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#305283 - 01/26/18 09:10 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8084
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
cheap little house goes for about 8,000.00


A really nice little house, on a trailer bed. I don't think they need nice and they certainly don't need mobile. I'm thinking 8 by 8 by 8 plywood boxes with some asphalt shingles on top. It's a huge step up from a shelter cot that goes away every morning or a cardboard box in an alley.

Yes, it's crappy, institutional, and cheap on purpose. It keeps homeless people off the street but anybody who can work and earn enough to get out will. It's really like a homeless camp but around a large public bathroom, which is the whole point.

Actually, if the city just built some large public bathrooms with space around them available, then I think a lot of the homeless would scrounge the materials to build their own shelters.

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