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#305289 - 01/26/18 10:18 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13149
Loc: Whittier, California
No matter how you look at the issues, the way our economy is running, favelas ARE going to be built, it's just a question of where, and when.
We can do our best to ensure that they are beneficial AND conducive to positive steps in the right direction, and to offer as many resources as possible to make living in that favela a short term experience, or we can let gangs, cartels, organized crime and disease run the show.

It's definitely not going to end well if we do the latter.
And I guarantee that, in the long run, doing the latter will be extremely expensive, as well as a grave security concern to all.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305294 - 01/27/18 09:02 AM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7614
Loc: North San Diego County
I assume they would put a good fence around such a camp, just so you can easily watch who comes and goes. It would not be hard to just close the gate some night and turn it into a temporary prison if things got out of hand. They can also easily have cameras up on poles so they can watch things inside the camp on security monitors.

Like somebody fires a gun, you just lock it down and do house-to-house searches until you find it.

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#305296 - 01/27/18 01:07 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 823
Why not public execution with mandatory attendance while were at it? Grab a dozen or so poors and line them up on the wall? The point gets made and there's minimal cost to the tax payer. It has the dual effect of chilling random violence the poors are predisposed to and promotes self policing within the ghetto as an added benefit.


Edited by chunkstyle (01/27/18 01:08 PM)

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#305297 - 01/27/18 02:54 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 302
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Come on people, go back and read what has been posted, it sounds like support for more Gitmos. Yea, we could bring Joe Arpaio back to run them.
_________________________
Vote 2018

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The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

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#305298 - 01/27/18 03:26 PM Re: Underclass [Re: Ujest Shurly]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8799
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
I hear Ol' Joe is looking for a job. Why not send them all to Maricopa County and the tent camp? Free pink outfits, too!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#305299 - 01/27/18 07:01 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13149
Loc: Whittier, California
Nevertheless, with the way our economy is running, with all this income inequality, the homeless encampments will soon become semi-permanent, or permanent.

The ball is in our court. We can let it turn into a US version of the slums of New Delhi or ..... ??
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305301 - 01/27/18 08:38 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1954
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
There is yet something else not being said. NOBODY wants a homeless camp, building, flat place, whatever anyplace near them. In Seattle, for instance, one of the premier cities of the left, it has made no difference where they try and put these folks, the neighbors ALL disapprove. This is a problem that is just going to get bigger and, hopefully, there are people who are working on the problem. In the last election Seattle had (I live in the area but not in Seattle) one person running who wanted to start building what could only be called hotels for the homeless (she lost). There is going to have to be a solution or there is going to be even more serious problems. Again, in Seattle, last year I think, they had a fire underneath one of the freeways. The fire got hot and they had to inspect and reinforce due to the heat. This is just one of the problems. Then there are the predators so kids are not safe, women are not safe, belongings are definitely not safe, etc. If gov tries to bring some law and order its seriously resisted by the very people they are trying to protect. As I say, this is a REALLY pesky problem! In my town, port angeles, they have established places they can get food and a bed and, I am told, they are rarely full. On the other hand they are sleeping in anyplace out of the weather. I know of one business who had them move into the entry to the business and actually s**t at the front door. Yep - PESKY problem!

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#305302 - 01/27/18 08:55 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7614
Loc: North San Diego County
Or it can actually be a safe place for the homeless to live. Anybody who wants to leave is free to do so. Right now, they don't have that option. So in the interests of liberty, you make them live in alleys and riverbeds? That's just like throwing all the loonies out of the state mental hospitals because they need to be free: Heartless.

I actually have some personal experience with this. My sister-in-law has been living in a state-run halfway-house for mental patients for many years now. She is free to come and go, but the house is right across the street from a mental health facility. It's really the best place for her to live. She gets a bed in a shared room, a common living room and kitchen, and takes part in scheduled household chores, and gets free health and mental health care. They have room for 12 people.

Freedom is a great thing, but many homeless people need less freedom and more care than we are giving them. Sure, there are perfectly fine homeless families who have had some unlucky financial events. They get houses, paid utilities, and bus passes so they can get back to self-sufficiency. I'm talking about the addicts, the alcoholic bums, the chronic mentally ill here. If you don't shelter them, they go live on the street or die on the street, depending on the weather. You are talking about "the poors" but this is a class BELOW "the poors". They have a shopping cart, if they are lucky.

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#305309 - 01/27/18 11:42 PM Re: Underclass [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13149
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Or it can actually be a safe place for the homeless to live. Anybody who wants to leave is free to do so. Right now, they don't have that option. So in the interests of liberty, you make them live in alleys and riverbeds? That's just like throwing all the loonies out of the state mental hospitals because they need to be free: Heartless.

I actually have some personal experience with this. My sister-in-law has been living in a state-run halfway-house for mental patients for many years now. She is free to come and go, but the house is right across the street from a mental health facility. It's really the best place for her to live. She gets a bed in a shared room, a common living room and kitchen, and takes part in scheduled household chores, and gets free health and mental health care. They have room for 12 people.

Freedom is a great thing, but many homeless people need less freedom and more care than we are giving them. Sure, there are perfectly fine homeless families who have had some unlucky financial events. They get houses, paid utilities, and bus passes so they can get back to self-sufficiency. I'm talking about the addicts, the alcoholic bums, the chronic mentally ill here. If you don't shelter them, they go live on the street or die on the street, depending on the weather. You are talking about "the poors" but this is a class BELOW "the poors". They have a shopping cart, if they are lucky.


Sorry but the group that can benefit the most from the help we can give is going to HAVE to be the group we offer that help to.
We cannot even begin to expect to be able to handle ALL the different TYPES of homeless all at the same time.

The crooks, the hardcore and seasoned homeless who reject help, the addicts and the mentally ill (except for mentally ill VETERANS*) might just have to wait while we FIRST help the group that can reap real change in their lives from our assistance, namely all the homeless single mothers or fathers with kids, the working homeless, the ones hit by economic, medical or other catastrophes or some combination of both.

Once we are able to get THOSE groups some help, THEN we can start to turn our attention MORE to the next groups, but that would be a different KIND of help, facility based instead of homestead based.

And we will NEVER EVER be able to get rid of ALL our homeless.
The last decade or so has GROWN a whole new crop, some of whom are indeed hopeless cases. As AA says, "there are such unfortunates".
And we have to accept that to some extent.

But even helping the groups that can benefit the most will dial the problem back to something of a dull roar, not so that we can ignore the roar but so we can get out of CRISIS mode and get our ducks in a row.

But right now there are millions of working homeless, homeless families and solo bad luck cases who just need a leg up and we need to address them first with the most help so that we can start the process moving.

For them, perhaps some kind of WPA style works program is in order?
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305310 - 01/28/18 12:17 AM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7614
Loc: North San Diego County
But they don't segregate themselves by "deservedness" when they walk into the shelter. You can't just turn the street-poopers away, because that does nothing about the Hepatitis epidemic they finally started the program to fight. The whole reason we HAVE such a program to house the homeless in San Diego is because of the very bottom-most.

So I think you COULD turn away the able-bodied but unlucky folks you want to help, because they will actually figure something out on their own. Maybe collect and recycle cans and bottles. Maybe find some lonely elderly person to let them stay in their garage in return for eldercare. There are all sorts of opportunities for the non-crazy non-junkies.

But I'm willing to help those people too. Give them the real rental houses if they have kids. Once they have an address, welfare will give them money for the kids. But the primary goal is to get the street-poopers to use real toilets, and to do that you have to build the toilets and manage them so they are not gross or deathtraps. Housing them around the toilets is just the incentive to actually use them.

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