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#305316 - 01/28/18 02:03 AM Re: Underclass [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
But they don't segregate themselves by "deservedness" when they walk into the shelter. You can't just turn the street-poopers away, because that does nothing about the Hepatitis epidemic they finally started the program to fight. The whole reason we HAVE such a program to house the homeless in San Diego is because of the very bottom-most.

So I think you COULD turn away the able-bodied but unlucky folks you want to help, because they will actually figure something out on their own. Maybe collect and recycle cans and bottles. Maybe find some lonely elderly person to let them stay in their garage in return for eldercare. There are all sorts of opportunities for the non-crazy non-junkies.

But I'm willing to help those people too. Give them the real rental houses if they have kids. Once they have an address, welfare will give them money for the kids. But the primary goal is to get the street-poopers to use real toilets, and to do that you have to build the toilets and manage them so they are not gross or deathtraps. Housing them around the toilets is just the incentive to actually use them.


That's funny.
What about bum fights?
Wait, here me out...
Televised bum fights. Cheap to produce reality TV. Cities won't have to be bleed for tax abatements and give aways in order to enjoy some low rent roman colosseum spectacles.
The NFL is dying anyway. Why not convert all those stadiums taliban style. The narratives would pactically write themselves. Tired and dirty minivan full of poors talking bout how weird it gets in the street. Father wanting a hot shower and a safe bed for the family. Cut to bad mouth talking immigrant family wanting that same cot. Give em the whole moral and personal failure stuff that brought them to the deplorable condition they're in today voice over narrative.
Finally the big fight between a Vietnamese bum dad and a Kentucky bio hazard Mom in a stadium that could be theme appropriate decorated. Battling it out for that hot slop and locker room shower should their Family prevail will keep eyeballs on screens.

I'm not saying it's perfect or couldn't be improved but I'm just spit balling here in our hollowed out, post industrial neoliberal reality. I see more benefits in terms of business revenue and tax benefits than poors picking up tin can or helping old folks off the toilet for getting by.


Edited by chunkstyle (01/28/18 02:04 AM)

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#305322 - 01/28/18 07:44 AM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7886
Loc: North San Diego County
Oh, I'm sorry. I thought we were having a serious discussion about things we could do to help the people forced onto the bottom rung of the ladder. I SEE people collecting cans and bottles. I KNOW people doing gardening and odd jobs for elderly folks to get by. I HAVE relatives who live in state facilities. My brother-in-law depends on Social Security and casual labor, but used to be a General Contractor. He is too arthritic to work much with his hands anymore, but that is all he did as a Finish Carpenter. He's reduced to using the VA for medical problems. He lives in a Tiny House behind his sister's house.

Not a joke to me.

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#305323 - 01/28/18 02:13 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
Point taking PIA. I'll start throwing out my soda cans on the road for the elderly and poors. Pay em to weed my drive way. Sounds like a plan that should go nation wide.

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#305334 - 01/28/18 11:10 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7886
Loc: North San Diego County
Again, you are talking about helping the people who are capable of helping themselves. That's fine, if you want, but I think government is better able to make some changes to help those people who can't.

I see this all the time. We have all sorts of government programs to help "the poors", to elevate low-wage earners into better financial conditions. Help people get more and better food, etc. The best example is the welfare system that requires you to have an address before they give you money!

Imagine 10 percentile "chunks" of the population in terms of economics. These programs don't help the bottom 10%! They help the next 10% higher.

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#305336 - 01/29/18 12:02 AM Re: Underclass [Re: pondering_it_all]
itstarted Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6390
Loc: Florida/Illinois
Guaranteed Minimum Income

Maybe not too popular, but for some countries not just a dream. A quick Google of the term will bring up a number of names that you may recognize.

A fairly wide view of the possibilities here in this wiki article.

Wikipedia

...and a recent article that looks at the possibilities.

From The Guardian

Where's the money to come from? Where did the tax relief money come from?



Edited by itstarted (01/29/18 12:03 AM)
_________________________
Life is Good!

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#305342 - 01/29/18 01:28 PM Re: Underclass [Re: itstarted]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8867
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: itstarted
Guaranteed Minimum Income

Where's the money to come from? Where did the tax relief money come from?

I'm for it... if we are going to have more debt, it might as well go for something with actual benefits.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#305352 - 01/29/18 07:22 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7886
Loc: North San Diego County
The benefits are huge, in terms of the economy. Every penny of that money would be spent very quickly and circulate around and around. It's just gravy that it doesn't cost that much. And imagine all the money we could save NOT paying all the people who's job is to deny people benefits! Much like insurance companies cut their underwriting costs down to near zero once ACA made underwriting illegal.

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#305353 - 01/29/18 07:43 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2097
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Bum Fights? Not a good idea. Here is one that would probably work. You get a ball about twice as big as a basketball and it must be VERY STRONG. Then you load said ball with, say, 20,000.00 and put it in the middle of the field. The poor can take part for free but the rest must pay an entrance fee. All participants must present proof that they had also signed a blanket release and all tickets would also state that the holder cannot hold ANYBODY responsible should ANYTHING happen to them. When the whistle blows the person who can get the ball off the field owns the money - any attendee is, by virtue of being there, can participate. Simple and nothing but volunteers. This can be expanded for the big bucks and tv rights should be worth a LOT! If you want to leave the poor folks out then everybody pays. You could use the entry fees to fund the prize and any profits could goto good works. Depending on how much prize money was available it might even be possible to have several ball episodes per day.

Oh, no rules, other than a participant couldn't use anything but their own bodies (no spears, daggers, knives, clubs, etc) although they could collude with others to try and get the money. This can also be expanded in a number of ways. How about only men or women participating, only those over 60 participate, etc.

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#305364 - 01/30/18 12:55 AM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7886
Loc: North San Diego County
And they have to do it naked, just for good TV ratings.

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#305420 - 01/31/18 09:02 PM Re: Underclass [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2097
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Naked day - GOOD ONE! We could also allow for club day, knife day, mechanized day, elderly day, etc. It would just add to the fun. Years ago I checked this one out with some attorneys. They figured there was no real way to get people to understand the danger and that THEY would be responsible and not the participants. This, in turn, meant that anybody putting something like this on would probably end up responsible for any breakage. It was generally agreed, however, that if anybody could ever get this started (the suggested game name was "Mayhem") would could be a huge money maker.

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