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#305650 - 02/19/18 07:25 PM High Schoolers acting out
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1950
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I have been watching, with interest, the High School kids acting out. Its really quite amazing. They are, apparently, sick and tired of watching their generation getting killed by assault weapons by lunatics and are marching. They kinda take the wind out of the minions of the NRA big time. They are not getting on board of the Right/left, Democratic/Republican memes. Instead they want guns to be controlled and the their slaughter to stop. I have watched the liars of the right give voice to their baloney just to have it thrown back on their faces, no arguments, just a general rejection of their crap.

This is a great thing! I don't know how long its gonna last (hopefully long enough to get the job done) but, while it does they deserve support from anybody who is not brain dead. Right now they are going after the checks before buying and getting rid of assault weapons. If they have positive results of expect them to go further. What is also great about this one is that they are going after the NRA straight on, no debates, no arguments, just demands because they are convinced they are right (they are). I actually noticed on CNN this morning that somebody actually mentioned what Australia did which was a BIG step forward (we have consistently ignored anything anybody but Americans had done which worked).

Now, of course, one can only hope they start mentioning drugs and the nation of Portugal that decriminalized ALL drugs almost 20 years ago. I remember, when it happened, that every think tank of the right flooded into that country to report on the disaster and they all came back scratching their heads and admitting that "it actually worked". We are currently undergoing yet another scourge of drugs and have, consistently, ignored this one to the tune of over one trillion dollars! Perhaps somebody might mention that one too? I remember reading an article on Portugal a couple of months ago. The title was "Where have all of Portugal's drug addict gone?". Here are some sites on this one (just google "portugal drug decriminalization"):
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html
https://news.vice.com/article/ungass-por...-weed-to-heroin
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...m=.f3c36eca4ba2

I think what happened, when it comes to drugs, is that we made our resistance into some kind of very strange industry that continues to this day - inspite of continued failure to the point where our war can't even keep the price of drugs up! (you can currently buy heroin, cut with who knows what, cheaper than prescription pain killers. Our war fixes nothing, cures nobody, fails regularly, and, in spite of that continues.

Its REALLY time that somebody studies exactly, what our government does and just how successfully they do it. WE NEED A NEW HOOVER COMMISSION!!!!!!!!!! (with teeth)


Edited by jgw (02/19/18 07:26 PM)

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#305654 - 02/19/18 08:39 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: North San Diego County
"We need to cut off pain pill prescriptions."

Then everybody addicted or in chronic pain has to buy heroin cut with fentanyl or worse, carfentanyl, at great risk of OD. The truth is that when people take pain pills, they get an exact repeatable dose. When we force them to switch to alternative street drugs, they die. Most of the deaths in the "opiate crisis" are BECAUSE of government actions, because government always tries to do the easy but stupid thing.

It's harder to treat the people who are not in chronic pain, and leave the people who are to work it out with their doctors. That actually takes some effort and rational thought. Government hates rational thought!

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#305661 - 02/20/18 03:32 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
I watched Emma Gonzalez speak at the rally. She was amazing. Tears flowing, she kept her voice steady and made an amazing speech. She answered all the anticipated counter arguments and ripped them to shreds. She cut right to the heart of the problem with her call to vote for nobody who accepts NRA money. That'd do it.

These beautiful, bright high schoolers give me hope. They have a platform and they're going to use it. Bravo!
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#305663 - 02/20/18 07:42 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13148
Loc: Whittier, California
I mean to say that, if OUR generation supports these kids every step of the way, they may just possibly succeed in destroying the NRA's "brand", and make no mistake about it, the NRA IS a BRAND.
It has value, enormous value.
Every single "ChildKiller 6000" quasi-military semi-auto precision rifle sold is because of the branding efforts by the NRA.

Meanwhile the NRA and the industry will research possible new model names to enhance their cachet and attractiveness to faux-patriot cult members.
Possible suggestions:

Liberal Terminator 2500
Libtarderator
Democrat Destroyer 4000

I'm just saying, know your market. tinfoilhat
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305666 - 02/20/18 08:40 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
Yes, the NRA does know its market.

It just reeks that they have so much power. We never elected the NRA or Wayne LaPierre (alias: Wayne the feminine Peter) to any office, but they are somehow in charge of gun laws.

Just like we never elected Grover Norquist to be in charge of taxes.

We didn't elect poor old Kansas's governor, Sam Brownback to be in charge of religion ... but he was, at least, appointed and (barely) approved.

But I digress.

I also agree with you, Jeffrey, about our generation's needing to support these wonderful kids.

I loved the way Emma Gonzales slapped down the idea that this was R vs D. Whoever takes NRA money needs to be gone.

She called BS on them. And two buses of students and family members are already headed to Florida's capital. These kids are moving quickly because now IS the time to talk about it. They want politicians to look them in the eyes and tell them exactly what they are going to do about the gun problem. And what politician will be too cowardly to meet with these grieving students and families? I guess we'll find out. And what politician will try to blow smoke? These kids will call BS on them.

My friends have agreed to see if we can find a fairly close walk-out we can support on March 14. And of course, Roy Blunt is going to get an ear full a couple of times a week.

I hope they get lots of support from all quarters.

Did you see the video of the guy cutting his AR-15 in half? As he said, that's one less.


Edited by Spag-hetti (02/22/18 04:14 PM)
Edit Reason: Wrong danged name
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#305667 - 02/20/18 09:33 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: Spag-hetti]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13945
Loc: Florida


When our children act like leaders and our leaders act like children, you know that change is coming.(stolen from Facebook)
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#305668 - 02/20/18 09:45 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1950
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
First, the prescription thing. The doctors prescribed the pills because the drug companies claimed they were not addictive. I suspect they know better now and the drug companies have a pile of pawsuits over their initial claim. The belief that all the prescription folks moved on to heroin because their prescriptions ran out is not exactly right. The simple fact is that the heroin was actually cheaper than the prescription stuff and had more of a kick (and then it kills).

What bothers me about the drug thing is that it makes no sense. We have had this stuff around for years and this has never happened before to this extent. If you go back to the 20's, when opiates were the cure all for everything you could think of, the actual rate of drug dependency was, basically, pretty low against what we have today. This, in spite of the fact that medicine was actually a new science and was not that great. Children were actually weaned on opiates yet most were never addicted, I just find it strange that, now, with better medicine, an easier time by far over the 20's, people are so depressed that they need feel good to go day to day. There is, I think, a serious problem in America. Our politicians spend most of their time, for instance, trying to scare us to death about every little thing. The political right spends all their time not only scaring us with this and that but also, in that mix, are constantly telling everybody how bad OUR government is, how wasteful, incompetent, and offensive our government is. This has been going on for a very long time but, now, apparently they seem to have recruited the Russians to help them with that one.

Anyway, if you read the reports on the Purtugal thing, you will find that they have actually, pretty much, solved most of their societal problems to do with drugs. There are also a couple of other facts that folks should understand. If, for instance, one is a heroin they can live a full and useful life by maintaining IF they have a source of the drug not produced by criminals. I know of one woman, in Seattle, from a rich family, who lived a very long and productive life and was a leader of Seattle Society (she had a personal private doctor who took care of her). The critical word in all of this is 'maintain'. We got into banning drugs sideways. Marijuana, for instance, was made illegal, by congress at the behest of the timber industry who didn't want hemp growers supplying fiber to midwest paper factories. Al the rest of it was made illegal, over time, at the behest of the religious folks who disapproved of it all. Up until 1960, for instance, is was quite possible to goto any number of drug selling businesses to buy all sorts of now illegal drugs. There is also how Ecstasy got illegal. It was pretty simple, gov was told it was bad by the moralists and so they banned it. This, in spite of the simple fact that there was not, and has not, been a single study to prove the danger of that drug with any degree of accuracy (same with marijuana the largest study of which, during the Nixon administration, determined there was little or no risk with it). What Portugal proved, beyond a doubt, is that when you decriminalize and provide real help to those in trouble, due to drugs, most societal problems just evaporate.

Then there has also been the costs of our war on drugs. So far, apparently, we have spent well over 1 TRILLION dollars on a war that simply bleeds money for no apparent gain although it has, due to other laws congress passed (I love the one where drug warriors get to seize all sorts of stuff; money, houses, cars, etc and NEVER account for a dime of said stuff seized - this one has, amongst other things, been responsible for a LOT of law enforcement going to jail). All in all the war on drugs is killing people by moving drug production to criminals, its an incredible waste of time, and simply does not work.

I have also had family members who are now dead due, as far as I am concerned, to our war on drugs.

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#305669 - 02/20/18 09:49 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1950
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The kids are going to have a big deal on tv. The Lying Jackass has now decided to answer question from, I betcha, a seriously vetted group of high school kids, on the same day as the thing put on by the kids now speaking out.

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#305673 - 02/21/18 12:44 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
a seriously vetted group of high school kids


I bet that doesn't work out too well. What would they be allowed to ask?

"Why are you so great, Mister President?"

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#305674 - 02/21/18 02:00 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: pondering_it_all]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
Quote:
PIA asked:
What would they be allowed to ask?


What kind of GPA do I need to get a scholarship at Trump University?
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#305677 - 02/21/18 02:18 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: Spag-hetti]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40888
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
Quote:
PIA asked:
What would they be allowed to ask?


What kind of GPA do I need to get a scholarship at Trump University?


ROTFMOL , LOL , Bow
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#305682 - 02/21/18 04:17 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1950
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The thing with the kids reminded me of something. During the Vietnam war the unions held a big rally in favor of the war. They feared their own children coming back from a wasted war and taking their jobs. That was the beginning of the end of the power of the unions. Now we have a similar thing happening yet again. This time its the Republicans, concerned about losing their right to have weapons designed to kill people are willing, obviously, to sacrifice THEIR children to save their guns.

If I were a Republican I would be quaking in my boots but, obviously, they are in charge (so were the unions). My hope is that America will wake up, smell the roses, and put an end the ongoing, world class slaughter happening in our nation on a constant recurring basis.

Hopefully?

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#305691 - 02/21/18 09:25 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13148
Loc: Whittier, California
Yesterday Florida Republicans LITERALLY decided that PORN was a bigger danger to society than Nikolas Cruz and his arsenal.
The kids got a crash course in politics and now understand the price of being disaffected, apathetic and low information non-voters.
They now have a very keen understanding that elections have consequences and that we get exactly the kind of government we deserve.
And a lot of them WILL be 18 this year.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305692 - 02/21/18 10:25 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1950
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
It really is pretty interesting. It would seem that the entire Republican party is absolutely consumed with gun rights and just about anything else that has nothing to do with either the safety of their children or the nation at large and they are led by the Lying Jackass who is refusing to actually defend the nation against enemies. The elected class, however, I can understand and it has to do with elevated social position and taking care of #1 before anything else.

One can only wonder at the loons, not of the elected class, who actually support the Lying Jackass, and the Republican party. These people have abandoned all honor and integrity!

I live in Washington state. In Washington state our ballots are actually mailed to us and we can fill them out and just mail them back or drop them off at the courthouse. Our last major election produced an incredible 37% of the voters that could take time out to send the ballot, mailed to them, back to their county for counting (I believe one should vote, or at least submit their ballot, no matter what. I also support mandatory voting (thought I would throw that in).

If people don't think their vote matters, and don't vote, should consider that the minority that did vote gifted us with the Lying Jackass, a congress which are diligently destroying Medicare and Medicaid, the environment, parks, national monuments and a pile of other stuff. I am currently retired. When I did the business thing I would gather all employees, before every election and tell them to vote. How they voted was their business but they should vote. I never paid my employees much and most were poor. Out of, say, 100 employees I don't think over 25 ever voted. I explained it all to them, especially the part where, if you are a member of a specific group, like the poor, you get dumped on because you don't vote. I did this for over 70 years and failed to get them to vote. What can I say? Most of these people live off the government but they are just too busy to give a damn <sigh>





Edited by jgw (02/21/18 10:28 PM)

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#305695 - 02/21/18 11:29 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: North San Diego County
What would they be allowed to ask? Now we know. Different students!
\
Quote:
Several of the students seated around Trump thanked him for his leadership on mass shooting issues but made few remarks about gun access, marking a sharp tone shift from the Parkland students behind next month’s march.

One of the students, Cameron Kasky, tweeted after the listening session that he, student organizer Emma Gonzalez and the other Parkland students calling for gun control were “not invited” to the White House on Wednesday.


Trump's big idea? Arm 20% of the teachers. So then 4 chances out of 5 a shooter could kill his entire classroom before an armed teacher shows up. And why would we think those armed teachers would run toward somebody shooting? I think they would lock their classroom door and only shoot if threatened directly. To even have a chance of working, you'd have to arm EVERY teacher and that just makes them the first victim before the shooter kills everybody else in the room.

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#305696 - 02/22/18 12:10 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13148
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
What would they be allowed to ask? Now we know. Different students!
\
Quote:
Several of the students seated around Trump thanked him for his leadership on mass shooting issues but made few remarks about gun access, marking a sharp tone shift from the Parkland students behind next month’s march.

One of the students, Cameron Kasky, tweeted after the listening session that he, student organizer Emma Gonzalez and the other Parkland students calling for gun control were “not invited” to the White House on Wednesday.


Trump's big idea? Arm 20% of the teachers. So then 4 chances out of 5 a shooter could kill his entire classroom before an armed teacher shows up. And why would we think those armed teachers would run toward somebody shooting? I think they would lock their classroom door and only shoot if threatened directly. To even have a chance of working, you'd have to arm EVERY teacher and that just makes them the first victim before the shooter kills everybody else in the room.


Of course it's expected that the INVITED ONES were carefully scrutinized and curated, and the "undesirables" (like the one who called him a POS) were left out.
Is this a surprise?
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305697 - 02/22/18 01:09 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
Of course, the solution would be the one that leads to more gun sales. NRA just had a dream (I almost said wet, but that would be crude) come (no pun intended) true. How many guns would be be needed if we put one on every floor of every school nationwide? Oh! And a secret lock box to put it in.

So, in an active shooter situation, a teacher would have to direct her students, secure her room, unlock the drawer where she keeps her purse, get the key for the gun box and then defend that room with a pistol. While the intruder has an AR-15 and kevlar.

I taught in the inner city. A teacher with a gun would be a very attractive target for gang members. When not confronting active shooters, the teachers would be constantly under danger of attack from students.

So! How about grenades? You don't need accuracy. Get all the kids into rooms and then roll grenades into the hallway through cat doors installed on classroom doors. The grenade and cat door industries could use the business. And they might give appreciative political donations.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#305698 - 02/22/18 01:26 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: Spag-hetti]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
And another thing. It absolutely P's me the F off when AH's say, "Welp, we could outlaw guns but then only outlaws would have guns."

Welp. A law would allow us to arrest the sellers and the buyers of outlawed guns. Before s**t happens with said guns. The FBI could clean house if we had the right laws in place.

Dammit.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#305699 - 02/22/18 01:44 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: North San Diego County
Nothing at all is possible as long as Congress has a huge number of members who are owned and operated by the NRA. Getting rid of them is the first step. Nobody should EVER get elected who has taken a contribution from the NRA. We need to make them a poison pill for any candidate.

What with money being funneled from Russia through the NRA, that should be possible.

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#305700 - 02/22/18 01:47 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: Spag-hetti]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3806
Loc: Eugene, OR
Yes, but aren’t you aware that these “students” are really paid actors that travel from site to site to express their outrage!

I’ve got that tidbit from several reputable sites on the good ol internet. Plus FOX alludes to such.

So there you have it.
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#305702 - 02/22/18 01:56 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: North San Diego County
Yeah, it's all fake news until your kid is dead...

Actually none of the shooting survivors were invited to Trump's "meeting". He really "met" with a bunch of carefully vetted Trump fans who were fed a script. This is state propaganda, the ultimate fake news.

The good news is that there are thousands and thousands of kids growing up and voting soon who have experienced a school shooting directly.

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#305703 - 02/22/18 12:39 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
I watched part of the session and was surprised at the passion expressed. If they were extremely "vetted", someone is going to get fired. Do I think it's going to have any more impact than the ballyhooed DACA session? No. But there were plenty of concrete ideas, passionately expressed to help the public stay focused. For Trump,
who has no actual empathy, it took notes to pretend to be human: But for many of the participants, their comments came from a real place: Listen to Sam Zeif.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305706 - 02/22/18 03:19 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Trump hears emotional pleas from school shooting survivors, families, and promptly fails to listen: Trump Tweets Support for NRA, Weighs Gun Limits . He'll do whatever the NRA allows him to do, as long as it doesn't offend Vladimir.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305708 - 02/22/18 07:52 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1950
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
It really is getting strange out there. A quote, thought to be made by Einstein (but apparently was not) goes lik:
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

It dawns on my that if this is true then the entire United States of America may be insane. Think about it. We are in a war that is entering its 18th year in Afghanistan. There have been articles, and books, written explaining that the military has made the same promises, with the same results, several times. The results have been utter failure.

We have a war on drugs which has been going on since the time of Nixon. In the 40 years we have been waging this war nothing has changed except that, apparently, we now do more drugs than we did 40 years ago and have bravely spent over 1 TRILLION dollars. In 2015 we spend approximately 51 billion on a war that we have not even been close to winning. At the same time the nation of Portugal no longer has a drug problem but we bravely ignore that little fact. So our solution to drugs is to ignore the entire rest of the world, keep on with our fail war, and continue to have serious problems with drugs.

We are well aware that we have a problem with gun violence. We also know how the entire rest of the world has deal with such violence. Their secret solution is to seriously control guns in their countries. The last nation to get their guns under control has been Australia and, while they still have the odd gun problem they have basically taken care of the problem. We, on the other hand, are constantly being told that the only solution to gun violence is to have MORE guns. Our gun problems are not only going away but getting worse!

I am sure that there are other examples of this kind of behavior. I also know, from personal experience, that most other civilized nations of the earth think that we just might be insane! I personally think that our problems are, basically, due to a voting public wherein a voting turnout of anything over 40% is called a landslide, even though that figure is not even half the American voting public. So, we have an obviously greedy, self serving elected class, voted in by the minority that actually votes and a Lying Jackass as our leader, also voted in by them that actually vote.

Just another thought....................

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#305710 - 02/22/18 10:31 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13945
Loc: Florida
Quote:
the entire United States of America may be insane.

Actually a little less than half. Unfortunately due to the vagaries of the Electoral College their candidate is sitting in the oval office.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#305711 - 02/22/18 10:53 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3806
Loc: Eugene, OR
So ponder this:
Quote:
Just over a week after 17 people were killed at Parkland, Fla., high school, National Rifle Association executive vice president and CEO Wayne LaPierre gave a fiery, defiant speech at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference, or CPAC, on Thursday at the National Harbor in Maryland. LaPierre defended Second Amendment rights and warned of a “socialist agenda” intended to strip firearms away from law-abiding citizens.

This LaPierre character needs some mental health counseling himself. Also, this is another reason why any sort of common sense compromise on any attempted new legislation has become politically impossible. The Russians have done a masterful job indeed. Way better than they ever could possibly have dreamed of.

I used to shake my head in wonderment after reading the comments section from most any given article. On anything. Now it’s painfully obvious that a great many of those comments have been written by any number of given robots. People are simply not that thick headed, are they?

Don’t answer that.

>>>>>Link to article<<<<<

An aside: I’ve come up with a great new name for the next hip hop superstar:

War N. Druggz

Hopefully it’s not already taken. I’m counting on making $mega millions$ off of that.
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#305712 - 02/23/18 01:06 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: Ken Condon]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
This LaPierre character needs some mental health counseling himself


I often think the NRA fights mental health restrictions on gun ownership because it would decimate their ranks. Between that, use of certain drugs like anti-depressants, and domestic abuse, how many NRA members would still be allowed to own guns?

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#305715 - 02/23/18 02:19 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: North San Diego County
Did anybody notice the story about the deputy sheriff who was the high school's armed security officer? Video shows him going to the outside of the building were the shooting was going on, and then just standing there. He did NOT confront the shooter at all. I suppose he was waiting for backup, or SWAT, or whatever. Actually perfectly sensible, but now he's fired.

This shows what "a good guy with a gun" would do, which is exactly nothing. Arm a bunch of teachers and they will run and hide if somebody starts shooting. The only reason they would engage a shooter is if he broke into their locked classroom and threatened to shoot them. They are more likely to shoot students trying to get into their classroom to flee the shooter. Then when the police DO show up, there would be all of these armed people running around and getting killed by police. Total clusterfug!

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#305719 - 02/23/18 04:36 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40888
Loc: Puget Sound, WA




Conservatives are livid that young, articulate Americans, who make extremely sympathetic advocates, are garnering attention and asking for respectful hearing for their views.

Conservatives now have to disagree on substance, and not be able to give the kind of full-throated personal attack they’re used to, causing these really old conservatives to shake their tiny fists in a fury at these young Americans - which is just so sad.
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Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#305721 - 02/23/18 09:55 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: North San Diego County
And Conservatives want everyone to completely ignore them just because they are not old enough to be qualified to talk about the events that almost killed them! So somebody who never had a loaded gun pointed at them for their 40 years is somehow more qualified? I think these survivors are the most qualified anyone can be to talk about the subject.

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#305879 - 03/07/18 08:51 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Here's How to Prevent The Next School Shooting - npr. It won't happen, though, because it relies on expert advice...
Quote:
About 200 universities, national education and mental health groups, school districts, and more than 2,300 individual experts have signed on to support this document in the weeks since.
CALL FOR ACTION TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.


The formula is straightforward:
Quote:
A public health approach to protecting children as well as adults from gun violence involves three levels of prevention: (1) universal approaches promoting safety and well-being for everyone; (2) practices for reducing risk and promoting protective factors for persons experiencing difficulties; and (3) interventions for individuals where violence is present or appears imminent.

Quote:
What sets this call to action apart from other policy proposals is not gun control, however, but the research-based approach to violence prevention and response. This is a long haul, say the experts, not a quick fix.
[npr] Thus, it has no chance in hell, nor do our children.

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#305958 - 03/13/18 02:09 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: NW Ponderer]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
Well, our illustrious president has put his finger on the problem. The solution is simple: just increase suspensions and expulsions of minority students. Betsy (The Wetsy behind the ears) DeVos will lead a commission to repeal Obama's "Rethink School Discipline" policies.

This only makes sense in Trump's demented brain. Cruz, the Parkland shooter was white. He had been suspended and expelled. There has never been a black school shooter. But lax discipline might allow a minority who might be a potential shooter slip through the cracks.

See? No need to tackle the NRA. Not that he's afraid of the NRA. They just made so much sense during that private dinner, whatever they said.


Edited by Spag-hetti (03/13/18 02:10 PM)
Edit Reason: it wuz wrote wrong
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#305965 - 03/13/18 07:45 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: North San Diego County
Of course suspending and expelling students makes them go away and never come back with a gun to settle grievances. Hmmm: Maybe we should rethink this policy and try to keep troubled kids engaged with the school and feeling like they have been treated fairly?

Maybe social engineering is more useful than open warfare. Of course this is not as satisfying as smiting them, in the Old Testament sense.

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#306111 - 03/24/18 05:37 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1950
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Today they are having their marches for lives. CNN will show nothing else today. This is really GREAT! Youth, historically, 18-26 do not vote. Now, however, that is, hopefully, changing (and the politicians should be quaking in their boots). The march is being put on by high school kids (I watched one of the organizers. She said that they had no idea just how complicated it would all be). Anyway, they (the kids) are marching world wide! I have no idea who, or how that is, but its true. I have also listened to the speakers (all of which, in the Washington dc march, are under 21) and they are actually telling it like it is (unlike the Dems who seem to be above it all). This is the first voting demographic that is actually calling out the elected class. I laud and admire this.

We are told that 85% of the voters favor gun controls. 85%!!! In spite of this the bought and paid for, self serving, do anything to keep the job elected class are, in large part ignoring them that gave them their jobs and getting away with it! Perhaps, now, things will change?

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#306114 - 03/24/18 07:01 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: North San Diego County
There is one way to make it change: VOTE

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#306116 - 03/24/18 08:58 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1950
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
That is, exactly, what I hope 18-26 year olds will start doing! (then, if the poor will also vote, we can start to fix things)

I keep preaching the vote thing. Even if one cannot make a choice a blank ballot too has ballot as it sends a message, particularly if enough are voted. (blank puts a party on notice that their candidate choices are lousy)

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#306118 - 03/24/18 09:56 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
I have watched much of the news coverage of the March. I'm blown away by the maturity of these kids. Two moments stand out: Emma Gonzalez standing silent for long minutes to dramatize the 6:20 it took to snuff out 17 lives; and Samantha Fuentes, a WOUNDED Parkland survivor, continuing her speech with aplomb after vomiting on stage in front of the world.

I said to my wife, "I can't see how this will not have an impact." Her response: "watch a little bit of FOX news and see how they report it..."
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306119 - 03/25/18 01:10 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
Spag-hetti Offline
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Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
I'm guessing that the NRA will start lobbying their bought-and-paid-for congressmen to raise the voting age to ... oh, I don't know ... 45?
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#306120 - 03/25/18 01:52 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
When our hearts were broken by the Columbine shooting and we wanted to do something to ensure that this could never happen again, the NRA and their Rethuglican stooges screamed, "This is a tragedy! How dare you politicize it! We can't bear talking about it right now. We'll do something about it later, after we all calm down." And I guess a lot of people thought Democrats were crass for politicizing it, and those poor, sensitive Republicans truly understood their heartbreak. But no results, no changes that would stop this from happening again, with 13 killed and over 20 wounded.

We got the same after Sandy Hook. Same damned lines. Same lack of results. Those poor first graders were too young to lead the charge, and apparently heartbroken parents of murdered babies couldn't move Americans to action.

The Parkland teens have grown up in Florida, a state whose gun laws (like stand your ground) were written by the NRA. With open carry, if a Florida cop sees a guy with an assault rifle walking into a 7-11, he's not even allowed to be curious (if the guy's white). These kids are seriously PISSED. And who can blame them? The adults responsible for their safety have sold their souls to the NRA. These kids are not going to quit and they are inspiring people to get up off their couches and be a big a pain in the conjoined NRA/Republican buttocks until they achieve their goal.

These kids are saying what about 85% of Americans believe. They have a really good chance of success ... if we all help them.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#306121 - 03/25/18 02:52 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: Spag-hetti]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
I'm guessing that the NRA will start lobbying their bought-and-paid-for congressmen to raise the voting age to ... oh, I don't know ... 45?


How Did NRA TV Cover the March for Our Lives? - Slate. Typical NRA - Baldfaced lies: NRA says violent radicals are behind the March For Our Lives - no, really, the lobbyists for Merchants of Death claim the victims are violent.

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#306127 - 03/26/18 04:21 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
I am going to make a confession: After watching the March for our Lives and the news coverage over the weekend, this is the most optimistic I have been since the election. The energy of the Women's March was, I think, a spur to the #MeToo movement. I believe that the #NeverAgain movement is going to have a similar impact. Both of those events are going to add to the tsunami building toward the 2018 midterms. Just today another GOP Representative announced he was dropping out of the race - Rep. Ryan Costello will drop bid for reelection in Pennsylvania - CNN. "Costello is the 39th Republican lawmaker to announce his retirement from Congress." Costello is at least the 7th Pennsylvania Republican to drop out. I'm hoping for about a hundred more.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306129 - 03/26/18 05:10 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: North San Diego County
Now that they don't have gerrymandered districts anymore, I guess things are looking bleak.

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#306130 - 03/26/18 06:17 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1950
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The GOP is now whining about how the new districts favor the Dems. I watched Costello note how unfair it all is. What they are actually saying is that the new districts do not favor them, are fairly drawn, whilst putting a slightly different, GOP, twist on it. I would guess that they also failed int heir attempt to recall the state supremes that made the ruling.

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#306135 - 03/26/18 10:19 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: North San Diego County
I predict a rout in Pennsylvania. Everybody hates a sore loser. Add that to Democrats polling about 10 percentage points ahead and that equals massive defeat.
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“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

John Steinbeck

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#306138 - 03/27/18 01:32 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
I don't know how many times I teared up while watching the March for Our Lives.

When that one girl threw up on stage and then said something like, "I just threw up on national television and it feels great!" and then gave a helluva energetic speech, I was absolutely amazed. It wasn't about her; it was about her mission.

As amazing as that whole deal was, I'm imagining what they might do when school's out. And humming a little Al Cooper while I do.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#306142 - 03/27/18 03:06 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: Spag-hetti]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13945
Loc: Florida

Quote:
I don't know how many times I teared up while watching the March for Our Lives.

The kids are allowing us, just for a moment, to feel young and hopeful again. I expect their hopes, and ours, will be dashed soon enough on the rocks of reality. But I'm still guardedly optimistic about the midterms.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306145 - 03/27/18 08:33 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: Greger]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
I did note that in the last Pennsylvania special election every single precinct, whether traditionally blue or red, swung left. Now, that was just in three counties, and some remained Republican, but even in solidly Republican precincts the dems gained significantly. It will only take a 7% swing to take the House, a 17% swing would be a bloodbath despite gerrymandering.

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#306158 - 03/27/18 09:57 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: North San Diego County
Even in states where there is heavy gerrymandering, they can have a massive failure: Gerrymandering strives to NOT create "safe" districts, but rather to spread their voters out into multiple districts and put all their opponents into a few districts. They try for about a 5% majority in "their" districts. But when you are so unpopular that you are running 10% behind, that 5% loses and you lose nearly every district. If things continue like they have been for 7 more months, the House will flip Democratic with very few Republicans left.

I expect to see the same sort of thing in the Senate, but fewer Republicans are running this cycle. Even so, it only takes a few Senators to flip it. If a Democrat can win in Alabama, they can win anywhere.

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#306160 - 03/28/18 02:37 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Maybe Mississippi? Mississippi Is Now in Play for Democrats Weekly standard. I don't really believe it, but apparently many in the GOP do...

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#306161 - 03/28/18 06:15 AM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: North San Diego County
White males make up only about 29% of the population in Mississippi. If Democrats can peel off some Republican women, a Democrat could win. I would suggest a good-looking fairly young populist portraying his Republican opponents as allies to the East Coast rich elite.

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#306165 - 03/28/18 07:05 PM Re: High Schoolers acting out [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1950
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I suspect that the kids are going to shame voters from the left to stop their internecine warfare and just vote for whoever stands from the left. This means not only them that vote but youth and poor. If that happens then the right will be overwhelmed and lose as there are more on the left than right (if they vote).

It will be interesting to see how the right figures out how to stop the deluge with lies, fake news, help from Russia, law suits, and more lies. (the trick on this one would be to call them out everytime they run out yet another lie and/or defamation)

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