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#305680 - 02/21/18 11:09 AM How Many?
NW Ponderer Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
I grew up in a small town in Kansas - Leawood, population (now) 31,000, although it was much smaller then. From there I moved to Black Jack, Missouri. Population (then), 3,500. Imagine if one day every resident of either of those towns was killed. (Pick any reason you like.) What do you think our country would do about that?

On December 7, 1941, (a date that will love in infamy) 2,403 Americans were killed. We went to war. On September 11, 2001, 2,977 people were killed. We went to war. On February 15, 1898, 266 died. We went to war. August 2, 1964, nobody died, but a Navy Destroyer was attacked and we went to war.

In 2017, 600 people were killed in mass shootings of 13,000 homicides by firearm (and 21,000 suicides). Nothing was done. So far in 2018, 90 mass murderers, no action. Since 2012 (Sandy Hook massacre), more than 1,875 deaths in 1,624 mass shootings. (Citation .) Nothing has been done. In every incident a semi-automatic firearm was used. An average of more than 11,000 Americans die each year from firearm homicides, twice the current population of Black Jack, Missouri. More than 33,000 firearm deaths, more than the population of Leawood, Kansas. More than half of the population of the United States lives in towns smaller than 25,000 souls. Every year the population of one of those towns is wiped off the map by semi-automatic firearms.

What's wrong with this picture?
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

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#305681 - 02/21/18 04:10 PM Re: How Many? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 302
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Everything else aside, the only difference between paragraph 2 and 3; paragraph two was done to us, paragraph three we are doing it to ourselves. Now it should be easy to identify and stop the more insane of the two.


Do not misinterpret my post; I am pro 2nd amendment and I want, have always wanted, strong gun control and restrictions. I do not own any weapons. Like a few here, I understand the purpose of and the reason for weapons. I have used them for their intended purpose and reason. Military grade or based weapons and ammo do not belong in the hands of civilians.


Edited by Ujest Shurly (02/21/18 04:11 PM)
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#305693 - 02/21/18 10:40 PM Re: How Many? [Re: Ujest Shurly]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
The Mental Health System Can’t Stop Mass Shooters https://nyti.ms/2BGFcrR The Mental Health System Can’t Stop Mass Shooters - OP ed, NYT.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305701 - 02/22/18 01:53 AM Re: How Many? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
paywall: Only for NYTimes subscribers. Maybe you could excerpt a few fair-use quotes?
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#305704 - 02/22/18 12:40 PM Re: How Many? [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Quote:
The mental health system doesn’t identify most of these people because they don’t come in to get care. And even if they do, laws designed to preserve the civil liberties of people with mental illness place limits on what treatments can be imposed against a person’s will.
.... The reason the mental health system fails to prevent mass shootings is that mental illness is rarely the cause of such violence. Even if all potential mass shooters did get psychiatric care, there is no reliable cure for angry young men who harbor violent fantasies. And the laws intended to stop the mentally ill from buying guns are too narrow and easily sidestepped; people like Nikolas Cruz and my patient are unlikely to qualify.

Instead of hoping that imposing mental health treatment on everyone who shows “red flags” will put an end to mass shootings, we should focus on ways to put some distance between these young men and their guns.
Sorry, I forgot to note that. I will, later.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305705 - 02/22/18 02:05 PM Re: How Many? [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Florida lawmakers refuse to debate assault rifles, but say porn is dangerous - CNN. What they failed to realize is that assault weapons are porn. There's a whole category of "gun porn". It's all over the internet. And I'm not talking about naked girls shooting guns (although there's plenty of that, too), but people who fetishise weaponry. Like militia groups.

I spent 30 years of my life training with, and preparing to use, and using assault weapons. There is no legitimate civilian use for them. But people "get off" on handling them and fantasize about them. I do too!

There are those who argue that there is no definition of assault weapons (they lie) "An assault rifle is a selective-fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine"; that they are "cosmetic" differences between ARs and hunting rifles (also a lie) and that they are impossible to regulate (more lies). They even promote fictions like "AR" doesn't mean "assault rifle" (Which, while technically true, belies the "common understanding" in modern usage). But they don't really fool anyone, even themselves.

I understand the allure, and the fantasies. But let's be intellectually honest - you know it when you see it. Assault rifles are sexy. They're metal and plastic Viagra. And they're deadly dangerous, like snuff porn. And when people play out those fantasies, other people die.

Take away the picatinny rail, the pistol grip handle, the box magazine and see how many get sold. It's hard to play out your fantasy with a generic rifle. And those Florida legislators know it. That's why they voted before the kids got there.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305713 - 02/23/18 01:21 AM Re: How Many? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
U suspect the reason we have so many of these is shooter video games. The real problem isn't the pistol grip, etc. It's people fantasizing about them. Imagining themselves as a heroic (but tragic) figure, taking down hundreds of enemies on a suicide mission. They know they are going to die, in all likelihood. Maybe we need to show on national TV and the internet life in prison that school shooters serve, including all the times they are raped, stuck with shivs, etc. and guards just laugh. So these punks know what they are really signing up for.

If you want to go out in a blaze of glory, attack a police station with your AR-15 instead. Call ahead so they can have enough people there.

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#305716 - 02/23/18 02:33 AM Re: How Many? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13949
Loc: Florida
They've got video games all over the world. They've got mental illness all over the world. There are young angry men everywhere.
But they don't have these mass shootings.

Whatever could the difference be? Couldn't possibly easy access to military style firearms could it...
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#305717 - 02/23/18 02:35 AM Re: How Many? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13949
Loc: Florida
Quote:
It's people fantasizing about them. Imagining themselves as a heroic (but tragic) figure, taking down hundreds of enemies on a suicide mission.

I think all that fantasizing is what NWP meant by "gun porn".
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#305720 - 02/23/18 09:20 AM Re: How Many? [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
all that fantasizing


And I think that's what young school shooters do: Fantasize.
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John Steinbeck

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