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#305941 - 03/11/18 06:00 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16105
There's a saying in the legal profession, "bad facts make bad law". What it means is that often judges will create shaky legal standards in order to get at particularly egregious behavior. In this case, however, I think there is a good chance that Stormy Daniels' case will lead to good law.

I am morally opposed to confidentially agreements. When I was in the Attorney General's office, our policy was (and I believe still is),
We don't sign confidentially agreements.
The principle is, "We are a public agency, and our actions should be subject to public scrutiny.". I believe this principle should apply here.

As a private citizen, and a celebrity, there are legitimate reasons why a confidentiality agreement would be appropriate for Donald Trump. But he's not a private citizen now. And much of this behavior is intimately tied to his election, and his conduct as President. As such, public policy demands that it be subject to public scrutiny.

There is a good chance that a judge will see the merit to that argument and set an appropriate precedent in law. That precedent, then, could be expanded in other contexts. When a publicly-traded company, for example, uses arbitration and hush money to cover up malfeasance, the public has a right to know. Too long corporations and elite individuals have been able to silence victims of their transgressions and seriously awful behavior. My hope is that the reign of Harvey Weinsteins, Steve Wynns and Donald Trumps can be brought to a close, and that courts will see the merit in preventing cover ups that allow misbehavior to continue.

Sometimes really bad facts can make really good law.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305943 - 03/11/18 06:29 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: rporter314]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13230
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I can't predict the future and in particular about these:
1. Mr Trump is interviewed by Mueller - most assuredly he will lie, but will the lies be meaningful in a legal way?
2. Would a Democrat House have the will to prosecute impeachment proceedings? Consider the damage which has already been done on a host of domestic issues. Would a serious Democrat House wallow in impeachment rather than trying to fix the damage?
3. Would a divided Senate even convict, should charges be filed? The Democrats (assuming all voted for conviction) would still need 17 Republicans to side with them. Would that many Republicans do that? Consider the hypothetical Sen Flake still in the Senate. Would he, even though he challenges Mr Trump routinely, vote for conviction or would he say to his fellow senators, lets move on.
4. Is having an immoral slug for president enough to file charges? I can see the charge sheet now - he had an extramarital affair/s. Is moral reprehensibility enough?
5. Obstruction ... for liberals there is an obvious case, but for the objective observer (and many legal minds), it is not so clear.
6. Mr Trump clearly suffers from NPD. Is that a "misdemeanor" worthy of impeachment? (In the sense a mental defect becomes a Constitutional issue).
7. Financial entanglements - is making money as a result of being president a crime? is it all about the timing?

May I offer an opinion? The Democrats should think long and hard about a single track agenda to impeach if the House is won. The country is far more important than political payback for perceived political affronts.

A far more befitting solution is endure the rest of his term (the worst may be over) and defeat him (if he survives a primary) in the general with a genuine authentic candidate with real policy positions which benefit the whole country.

just spitballing


I was under the impression that we were capable of doing both but in any case Mueller's investigation isn't being "timed to the mid-term elections" anyway, so...the thing is gonna come out when it comes out, and any talk of impeachment will need a solid backing of the facts laid out by Mueller and his team.
I doubt anyone wants to start the show without all of Mueller's findings in evidence.

But anyway, yes...fixing the damage is probably the most important thing. The sigh of relief once the Dems are in control will be palpable, and you're right, we need to get OUR HOUSE in ORDER and figure out who is a viable and electable candidate.
And NO...no retreads from 2016, not even Bernie, not even if Bernie joins the Democrats. His ship has sailed. What he CAN do is be a solid lawmaker and mentor, and do his job as chair of the Senate Budget Committee should we win the majority.

No liberal celebrities, no retreads, no symbolic candidates, just someone who is a solid leader with a solid vision to restore stability, sanity, and some ethics.
The American people are going to want to know that the grownups are back in control more than anything else.
The American people are going to want to see Nero get muzzled, his fiddle broken and they're going to want to see the FD putting out the flames in Rome.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305944 - 03/11/18 06:31 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13230
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I believe in justice, I just don't think justice will be served with regard to Donald Trump. Like Broidy, all the lesser sinners will get convictions and Trump will skate. We will have to wait until 2020 for relief, and who knows how bad it will be by then.


2018...Trump on a leash, and looking for discount charter flights to Moscow where he can join Steven Seagal.

2018.

Vote as if our lives depended on it because they just might.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305945 - 03/11/18 06:45 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13230
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Melania worked as a fashion model in Paris and Milan, in addition to growing to adulthood in Slovenia. She could have very well been Herpes II positive before she met Donald. With his history, it would be a very safe bet that he was. Herpes I and II positives are VERY common. Most people have adequate immune systems, so they may never even know they have Herpes II. Herpes I is so common you should assume everybody has it, maybe from birth. You would be right more often than wrong.

For example, Greenland has 98% positive for Herpes I and 68% for Herpes II.


It's mind boggling how Herpes has seemingly taken over most of the planet, and yet the human species has not evolved quickly enough to fashion a response to it yet.
That said, I remember when people were committing suicide over a Herpes II dx. The media hyped it in a particularly reprehensible fashion, with TIME Magazine doing a cover story, "Herpes, The New Scarlet Letter", and numerous "documentary" style shows about it that fearmongered on an epic scale.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305946 - 03/11/18 06:56 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13230
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Too long corporations and elite individuals have been able to silence victims of their transgressions and seriously awful behavior.


Bad facts like claiming that a corporation is "a person", for example.
"Corporations ARE people", as Mitt Romney said, but that's wildly different from "a corporation is A person", and as it turns out, corporate persons have an entirely new set of rights that flesh and blood persons do not usually have access to, such AS those confidentiality agreements, arbitration, corporate money as speech, etc.

I mean, yes...ordinary persons do HAVE access TO confidentiality agreements and the like but when's the last time anyone ever was able to force a corporation to accept THEIR arbitration.
Most of this stuff is one-sided, in favor of the CEO and his "corporate person". Trump is President, but he's also a CEO, and at the time, Daniels signed an agreement with a CEO and his corporation.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305947 - 03/11/18 10:17 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7773
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
the human species has not evolved quickly enough to fashion a response to it yet


Most certainly wrong: Herpes viruses have been around since before humans existed as a species. Almost everybody exposed makes antibodies that keep herpes I and II in check for their lifetimes. You rarely hear of anyone dying from herpes. Only people with compromised immune systems are affected with major outbreaks.

I'm sure I have herpes I, since I have had a few cold sores in my lifetime. I'm on an immunosuppressant drug that keeps my lymphocytes at about half of normal and still no cold sores, so that shows how effective the human immune system is.

We are co-evolved with thousands of different bacteria, fungi, parasites, and viruses. If we were not, we would have all died of any disease outbreak long ago. Some people in Europe even survived the Black Plague, and their descendants with that gene are resistant or immune to HIV.

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#305948 - 03/11/18 10:23 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7773
Loc: North San Diego County
Interesting idea going around: All the worry about disclosure forms, security clearances, ethics, etc. for government employees is to prevent them being blackmailed to do something bad. But Stormy's story means that Trump is being blackmailed right now!

I guess it was inevitable. You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas. America elects a dog as President, and we all get fleas. Instead of The Lying Jackass, let's call him President Whore-Monger from now on. I think that's a full-justified title. I don't think Capital Hill Blue rules about not calling office holders nicknames apply when the nickname is true.

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#305955 - 03/13/18 06:38 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: pondering_it_all]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3819
Loc: Eugene, OR
OK. I should not do this but I will:

You’ve got a corpulent Pre-Potus huffin’ and a puffin’ and a sweatin’ and a gruntin’. Atop or below, take your positions, a pre-porn star.

Melania awaits at home nursing and caring for young Barron as HE is doing his oil well drillin' “business” with his dalliance. Barron is a cryin' in his gold plated crib. Wanting his daddy!

But daddy is a gruntin' and a moanin' elsewhere. Is he a cheater? No he’s a fat induced greasy and salty yeller bellied Cheato!

Some might call him a yeller and greasy Cheeto. I call him a yeller and greasy Cheato.

Although Melania knew full well what she was marrying. But I do wonder what the prenup entails? And how ugly this just might get.
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#305956 - 03/13/18 01:26 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: Ken Condon]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16105
Having been unable to avoid seeing him virtually every day on TV, I would say, very ugly indeed. He is a particularly unattractive human-like specimen.

But I'm sure the allure of millions of dollars in spending and opulent, if crass, digs is some compensation. Having had practice in discarding two previous wives, I'm sure his lawyers were able to create pretty sophisticated terms for the pre-nup. The Stormy Daniels agreement is a good clue.

The interesting thing, though, is what provisions it might have for when he is convicted and jailed... Oh, did I say, "when"? I may have to look up New York law in that...

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#305957 - 03/13/18 01:36 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16105
Here's an overview on divorce.net. Unconscionable? Virtually guaranteed!
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
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