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#305888 - 03/08/18 02:41 PM Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!!
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
And a well-laid one too (pun unintended, but serendipitous).

In general, arbitrators get first crack at determining if a contract is enforceable, and so it is here - President Trump's lawyer secured a restraining order against porn star Stormy Daniels - from the arbitrator. But, there are several reasons why Trump and his team are being outplayed by Daniels and her attorney.

First, the attorney is not constrained by the gag order. Thus he can appear on national TV and detail the affair, only limited by "telling the truth" about the lawsuit and its allegations.

Second, by asserting that the contract is "void ab initio" because Trump didn't sign it (a legitimate argument, even if it doesn't win), it forces two things: Trump has to admit he's a party to the agreement (the White House claimed they "won" but that's a lie - big surprise!) or he can't defend it; and Cohen has to divulge who paid the $130,000. If it was him (as he's asserted) then he's breached the agreement by talking about it publicly. He's either the principal in the agreement (and violated it) or representing a third party, and violated ethics rules (and maybe other laws). Since he says he paid for it out of his own pocket, he may have violated ethics rules as an attorney, and can be disbarred (he probably should be, anyway, for other reasons).

There's more, but this is such a delicious topic, I'd like to invite others to share.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305889 - 03/08/18 02:58 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Okay, there's a third issue I meant to add: the arbitration agreement, and non-disclosure agreement, may be voided as a public policy doctrine violation. As President, or even as a candidate, the public's "right to know" supercedes his interest as a private citizen to keep his private affairs (another unintended pun!) private. Certainly, Robert Mueller could inquire and subpoena records in the public interest, especially as there were several suspicious monetary transactions involved.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#305891 - 03/08/18 04:19 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
It's as if they read my mind: TIME. (Note, I started this thread before TIME entered the fray!) Here's the Complaint.

Top
#305893 - 03/08/18 09:01 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I wish I could revel in your giddiness but every time I see one of these stories I think about the Trump supporters I know and what their response would be ... yep you guessed it ... they love the story and wish it was them

Does Congress care? Do rolleyes count?

Clearly the Republican led Congress will not do anything about the most deplorable administration since Caligula and I am now considering the possibility of a Democrat House doing anything. I am not convinced the Senate would convict.

Hold fast
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#305896 - 03/09/18 12:16 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
After the next group of Russian indictments, I suspect Roger Stone will be the "next one in the barrel" followed by Cohen. Both have strong tires to Trump and both are notoriously dirty. Mueller doesn't have to have them testify, I think he'll just try them.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#305897 - 03/09/18 12:48 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I listened to a bit of an interview with Stone and to me he came off as disingenuous, but then all of these characters use the same old tired line ... I don't believe etc ... it's almost the same as being ignorant of the law ... simply irrelevant when you break it
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#305900 - 03/09/18 01:08 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
Hey! NWP! Was this one unintentional, too?

Quote:
... arbitrators get first crack ...


H-m-m-m-m-m?
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#305905 - 03/09/18 04:54 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
LOL. Yes.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#305908 - 03/09/18 07:52 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1960
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I see that somebody has the actual papers on the lawsuit. Seems that trump also gave her photos of their coupling along with some other stuff. IT NEVER STOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#305917 - 03/10/18 07:14 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Trump and Cohen have fallen hard into the trap! Cohen claims that Trump didn't know about the settlement. If that were true (it's definitely not), it is a blatant violation of ethics rules, and makes the agreement a nullity - you can't have an agreement without two parties, and Cohen never claimed to be a party. Essentially, he's confessing to a fraud. The court will take that with a jaundiced eye.

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#305922 - 03/10/18 02:33 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40892
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Melania ought to get a herpes test/exam. Donald has been raw-dogging porn stars and not using condoms, so who knows what "gifts" he's given Melania. Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#305923 - 03/10/18 04:21 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40892
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Collusion, money-laundering, obstruction of justice won't bring down Donald Trump. It will be this Stormy Daniels story.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#305925 - 03/10/18 05:04 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
call me the weatherman as i am raining on your parade.

sorry but we have clergy who have sold their soul to satan and support Mr Trump .... we have Republicans who have lost what little integrity they might have had and support Mr Trump .... we have an AG who while being trashed by the president would not under any circumstances file charges against Mr Trump ... should I go on?

If after 400 days no one has done anything resembling removal from office, it is not likely anyone would. SP Mueller would have to have rock solid evidence of a crime so heinous I can not imagine it (not even sure being on Putin's payroll is enough)for Republicans to make a move.

I love your enthusiastic resistance against Mr Trump and the overly optimistic hope every new tidbit will remove him from office, but really guys .... realistically ... 2020

Hold Fast
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#305928 - 03/10/18 07:48 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Put the Democrats in control of Congress to stop the bleeding, that's all I ask, Mr. Porter 314.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

Top
#305929 - 03/10/18 11:52 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I can't predict the future and in particular about these:
1. Mr Trump is interviewed by Mueller - most assuredly he will lie, but will the lies be meaningful in a legal way?
2. Would a Democrat House have the will to prosecute impeachment proceedings? Consider the damage which has already been done on a host of domestic issues. Would a serious Democrat House wallow in impeachment rather than trying to fix the damage?
3. Would a divided Senate even convict, should charges be filed? The Democrats (assuming all voted for conviction) would still need 17 Republicans to side with them. Would that many Republicans do that? Consider the hypothetical Sen Flake still in the Senate. Would he, even though he challenges Mr Trump routinely, vote for conviction or would he say to his fellow senators, lets move on.
4. Is having an immoral slug for president enough to file charges? I can see the charge sheet now - he had an extramarital affair/s. Is moral reprehensibility enough?
5. Obstruction ... for liberals there is an obvious case, but for the objective observer (and many legal minds), it is not so clear.
6. Mr Trump clearly suffers from NPD. Is that a "misdemeanor" worthy of impeachment? (In the sense a mental defect becomes a Constitutional issue).
7. Financial entanglements - is making money as a result of being president a crime? is it all about the timing?

May I offer an opinion? The Democrats should think long and hard about a single track agenda to impeach if the House is won. The country is far more important than political payback for perceived political affronts.

A far more befitting solution is endure the rest of his term (the worst may be over) and defeat him (if he survives a primary) in the general with a genuine authentic candidate with real policy positions which benefit the whole country.

just spitballing
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#305934 - 03/11/18 01:37 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
I believe in justice, I just don't think justice will be served with regard to Donald Trump. Like Broidy, all the lesser sinners will get convictions and Trump will skate. We will have to wait until 2020 for relief, and who knows how bad it will be by then.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#305935 - 03/11/18 01:39 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
It really depends on what happens in 2018: If Republicans lose badly, they may decide Trump is not worth another disaster in 2020. They can probably keep Pence as President until 2020, but they would be in no position to dictate anything in Congress so maybe it's a moot point. With a Democratic Senate majority, no more Supreme Court nominees get confirmed. (What goes around, comes around!) But remaining Republicans in Congress may think they would like to keep their jobs in 2020.

Or maybe not: Republicans are notorious for shooting themselves in the foot.

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#305937 - 03/11/18 03:11 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40892
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


Melania ought to get a herpes test/exam. Donald has been raw-dogging porn stars and not using condoms, so who knows what "gifts" he's given Melania. Hmm

Rumors are that one of those 'gifts" was a pregnancy that ended-up being aborted. Stormy needs to tell her story.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#305938 - 03/11/18 07:11 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
Melania worked as a fashion model in Paris and Milan, in addition to growing to adulthood in Slovenia. She could have very well been Herpes II positive before she met Donald. With his history, it would be a very safe bet that he was. Herpes I and II positives are VERY common. Most people have adequate immune systems, so they may never even know they have Herpes II. Herpes I is so common you should assume everybody has it, maybe from birth. You would be right more often than wrong.

For example, Greenland has 98% positive for Herpes I and 68% for Herpes II.

Top
#305940 - 03/11/18 05:14 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Oh no!! You mean I can't sleep with Green women without risk of exposure!
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#305941 - 03/11/18 06:00 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
There's a saying in the legal profession, "bad facts make bad law". What it means is that often judges will create shaky legal standards in order to get at particularly egregious behavior. In this case, however, I think there is a good chance that Stormy Daniels' case will lead to good law.

I am morally opposed to confidentially agreements. When I was in the Attorney General's office, our policy was (and I believe still is),
We don't sign confidentially agreements.
The principle is, "We are a public agency, and our actions should be subject to public scrutiny.". I believe this principle should apply here.

As a private citizen, and a celebrity, there are legitimate reasons why a confidentiality agreement would be appropriate for Donald Trump. But he's not a private citizen now. And much of this behavior is intimately tied to his election, and his conduct as President. As such, public policy demands that it be subject to public scrutiny.

There is a good chance that a judge will see the merit to that argument and set an appropriate precedent in law. That precedent, then, could be expanded in other contexts. When a publicly-traded company, for example, uses arbitration and hush money to cover up malfeasance, the public has a right to know. Too long corporations and elite individuals have been able to silence victims of their transgressions and seriously awful behavior. My hope is that the reign of Harvey Weinsteins, Steve Wynns and Donald Trumps can be brought to a close, and that courts will see the merit in preventing cover ups that allow misbehavior to continue.

Sometimes really bad facts can make really good law.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#305943 - 03/11/18 06:29 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: rporter314]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I can't predict the future and in particular about these:
1. Mr Trump is interviewed by Mueller - most assuredly he will lie, but will the lies be meaningful in a legal way?
2. Would a Democrat House have the will to prosecute impeachment proceedings? Consider the damage which has already been done on a host of domestic issues. Would a serious Democrat House wallow in impeachment rather than trying to fix the damage?
3. Would a divided Senate even convict, should charges be filed? The Democrats (assuming all voted for conviction) would still need 17 Republicans to side with them. Would that many Republicans do that? Consider the hypothetical Sen Flake still in the Senate. Would he, even though he challenges Mr Trump routinely, vote for conviction or would he say to his fellow senators, lets move on.
4. Is having an immoral slug for president enough to file charges? I can see the charge sheet now - he had an extramarital affair/s. Is moral reprehensibility enough?
5. Obstruction ... for liberals there is an obvious case, but for the objective observer (and many legal minds), it is not so clear.
6. Mr Trump clearly suffers from NPD. Is that a "misdemeanor" worthy of impeachment? (In the sense a mental defect becomes a Constitutional issue).
7. Financial entanglements - is making money as a result of being president a crime? is it all about the timing?

May I offer an opinion? The Democrats should think long and hard about a single track agenda to impeach if the House is won. The country is far more important than political payback for perceived political affronts.

A far more befitting solution is endure the rest of his term (the worst may be over) and defeat him (if he survives a primary) in the general with a genuine authentic candidate with real policy positions which benefit the whole country.

just spitballing


I was under the impression that we were capable of doing both but in any case Mueller's investigation isn't being "timed to the mid-term elections" anyway, so...the thing is gonna come out when it comes out, and any talk of impeachment will need a solid backing of the facts laid out by Mueller and his team.
I doubt anyone wants to start the show without all of Mueller's findings in evidence.

But anyway, yes...fixing the damage is probably the most important thing. The sigh of relief once the Dems are in control will be palpable, and you're right, we need to get OUR HOUSE in ORDER and figure out who is a viable and electable candidate.
And NO...no retreads from 2016, not even Bernie, not even if Bernie joins the Democrats. His ship has sailed. What he CAN do is be a solid lawmaker and mentor, and do his job as chair of the Senate Budget Committee should we win the majority.

No liberal celebrities, no retreads, no symbolic candidates, just someone who is a solid leader with a solid vision to restore stability, sanity, and some ethics.
The American people are going to want to know that the grownups are back in control more than anything else.
The American people are going to want to see Nero get muzzled, his fiddle broken and they're going to want to see the FD putting out the flames in Rome.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

Top
#305944 - 03/11/18 06:31 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I believe in justice, I just don't think justice will be served with regard to Donald Trump. Like Broidy, all the lesser sinners will get convictions and Trump will skate. We will have to wait until 2020 for relief, and who knows how bad it will be by then.


2018...Trump on a leash, and looking for discount charter flights to Moscow where he can join Steven Seagal.

2018.

Vote as if our lives depended on it because they just might.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

Top
#305945 - 03/11/18 06:45 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Melania worked as a fashion model in Paris and Milan, in addition to growing to adulthood in Slovenia. She could have very well been Herpes II positive before she met Donald. With his history, it would be a very safe bet that he was. Herpes I and II positives are VERY common. Most people have adequate immune systems, so they may never even know they have Herpes II. Herpes I is so common you should assume everybody has it, maybe from birth. You would be right more often than wrong.

For example, Greenland has 98% positive for Herpes I and 68% for Herpes II.


It's mind boggling how Herpes has seemingly taken over most of the planet, and yet the human species has not evolved quickly enough to fashion a response to it yet.
That said, I remember when people were committing suicide over a Herpes II dx. The media hyped it in a particularly reprehensible fashion, with TIME Magazine doing a cover story, "Herpes, The New Scarlet Letter", and numerous "documentary" style shows about it that fearmongered on an epic scale.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

Top
#305946 - 03/11/18 06:56 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Too long corporations and elite individuals have been able to silence victims of their transgressions and seriously awful behavior.


Bad facts like claiming that a corporation is "a person", for example.
"Corporations ARE people", as Mitt Romney said, but that's wildly different from "a corporation is A person", and as it turns out, corporate persons have an entirely new set of rights that flesh and blood persons do not usually have access to, such AS those confidentiality agreements, arbitration, corporate money as speech, etc.

I mean, yes...ordinary persons do HAVE access TO confidentiality agreements and the like but when's the last time anyone ever was able to force a corporation to accept THEIR arbitration.
Most of this stuff is one-sided, in favor of the CEO and his "corporate person". Trump is President, but he's also a CEO, and at the time, Daniels signed an agreement with a CEO and his corporation.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

Top
#305947 - 03/11/18 10:17 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
the human species has not evolved quickly enough to fashion a response to it yet


Most certainly wrong: Herpes viruses have been around since before humans existed as a species. Almost everybody exposed makes antibodies that keep herpes I and II in check for their lifetimes. You rarely hear of anyone dying from herpes. Only people with compromised immune systems are affected with major outbreaks.

I'm sure I have herpes I, since I have had a few cold sores in my lifetime. I'm on an immunosuppressant drug that keeps my lymphocytes at about half of normal and still no cold sores, so that shows how effective the human immune system is.

We are co-evolved with thousands of different bacteria, fungi, parasites, and viruses. If we were not, we would have all died of any disease outbreak long ago. Some people in Europe even survived the Black Plague, and their descendants with that gene are resistant or immune to HIV.

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#305948 - 03/11/18 10:23 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
Interesting idea going around: All the worry about disclosure forms, security clearances, ethics, etc. for government employees is to prevent them being blackmailed to do something bad. But Stormy's story means that Trump is being blackmailed right now!

I guess it was inevitable. You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas. America elects a dog as President, and we all get fleas. Instead of The Lying Jackass, let's call him President Whore-Monger from now on. I think that's a full-justified title. I don't think Capital Hill Blue rules about not calling office holders nicknames apply when the nickname is true.

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#305955 - 03/13/18 06:38 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: pondering_it_all]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3807
Loc: Eugene, OR
OK. I should not do this but I will:

You’ve got a corpulent Pre-Potus huffin’ and a puffin’ and a sweatin’ and a gruntin’. Atop or below, take your positions, a pre-porn star.

Melania awaits at home nursing and caring for young Barron as HE is doing his oil well drillin' “business” with his dalliance. Barron is a cryin' in his gold plated crib. Wanting his daddy!

But daddy is a gruntin' and a moanin' elsewhere. Is he a cheater? No he’s a fat induced greasy and salty yeller bellied Cheato!

Some might call him a yeller and greasy Cheeto. I call him a yeller and greasy Cheato.

Although Melania knew full well what she was marrying. But I do wonder what the prenup entails? And how ugly this just might get.
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#305956 - 03/13/18 01:26 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: Ken Condon]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Having been unable to avoid seeing him virtually every day on TV, I would say, very ugly indeed. He is a particularly unattractive human-like specimen.

But I'm sure the allure of millions of dollars in spending and opulent, if crass, digs is some compensation. Having had practice in discarding two previous wives, I'm sure his lawyers were able to create pretty sophisticated terms for the pre-nup. The Stormy Daniels agreement is a good clue.

The interesting thing, though, is what provisions it might have for when he is convicted and jailed... Oh, did I say, "when"? I may have to look up New York law in that...

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#305957 - 03/13/18 01:36 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

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Here's an overview on divorce.net. Unconscionable? Virtually guaranteed!
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

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#305967 - 03/13/18 07:55 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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The part about misrepresenting assets should let Melania off the hook. I'm sure Donald did that as that the sun will rise tomorrow.

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#306009 - 03/15/18 09:07 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Although this was asked in a different thread, the issue is the clause in the Stormy Daniels "Hush" agreement for liquidated damages of $1 million per disclosure. There are several issues here that could be at play: 1) a court or arbitrator could enforce that provision as written, under the assumption that contracts are contracts, or...2) a court or arbitrator could find the provision "unconscionable" on the basis that the payment was only $130,000 so liquidated damages would be excessive (liquidated damages are disfavored in the law in many situations), or c) it could be found to be unenforceable as an "adhesion" contract - so one-sided as indicating that there was no "bargain" involved.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306013 - 03/16/18 02:13 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
...I'm sure his lawyers were able to create pretty sophisticated terms for the pre-nup...

i dunno...Michael Cohen hasn't demonstrated much legal intelligence lately. Hmm

It is as if Michael got his JD from Cracker Jacks or Trump University.
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#306014 - 03/16/18 02:15 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40892
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Although this was asked in a different thread, the issue is the clause in the Stormy Daniels "Hush" agreement for liquidated damages of $1 million per disclosure. There are several issues here that could be at play: 1) a court or arbitrator could enforce that provision as written, under the assumption that contracts are contracts, or...2) a court or arbitrator could find the provision "unconscionable" on the basis that the payment was only $130,000 so liquidated damages would be excessive (liquidated damages are disfavored in the law in many situations), or c) it could be found to be unenforceable as an "adhesion" contract - so one-sided as indicating that there was no "bargain" involved.

Does the part that Trump never signed the NDA have any bearing at all?
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#306015 - 03/16/18 04:14 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


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Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Several people have volunteered to PAY the one million dollars!
So, it might not even matter.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306017 - 03/16/18 04:17 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Originally Posted By: pdx rick

Does the part that Trump never signed the NDA have any bearing at all?
Maybe. I saw a comment today that indicated there was an "either/or clause" in the agreement that would moot the argument. I haven't reread the agreement to find that clause.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306019 - 03/16/18 05:58 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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The fact that there is a blank line with "Donald J. Trump" typed under it, suggests that they expected Trump to sign it, and more importantly made Stormy think that Trump would sign it. That suggests fraud and I think nullifies the contract. Besides, the lawyer already broke the silence agreement.

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#306031 - 03/17/18 12:57 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
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Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
I may have a naive understanding of contract law, but I thought contracts were bound by the signatures of the interested parties and an exchange of valuable consideration.

If Trump neither signed the contract, nor tendered consideration, how can he be damaged by a breach of contract?
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#306033 - 03/17/18 02:33 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8800
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Trump's new favorite song is playing 24/7 on his Twitter feed:

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#306036 - 03/17/18 03:58 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Trump is infamous for going after people on Twitter that he perceives as attacking him. Trump has not Tweeted one iota about Stormy, thus breaking the pattern.

What's different about Stormy that Trump has remained silent? Hmm
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#306038 - 03/17/18 04:10 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Trump's lawsuit against Daniels is going to open that can of worms. He's now admitted that he was a party to the agreement.

BTW, here's how removal works: it has been removed (transferred) to federal court. That is automatic. Now the federal judge will determine if he/she has jurisdiction. The judge may determine that the federal court doesn't, because the damages need to be shown, or because the arbitration language prevents it (Trump's preferred outcome). The judge could, however, determine that the contract is "void" as against public policy (my preferred outcome), because of the President's position. In any event, Mueller will have full access to all of the documents and witnesses, which puts the goose in mortal danger.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#306043 - 03/17/18 05:20 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
...Mueller will have full access to all of the documents and witnesses, which puts the goose in mortal danger.

That's what happens when you go to the Roy Cohn school of shysterism. You think you're so clever, but you don't see the long-term effects. Hmm
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#306045 - 03/17/18 08:02 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Loc: North San Diego County
The lack of long-range thinking is repeated over and over by such people. Just like Republicans who violate the Senate's super-majority rule for confirming Supreme Court justices. Or a House Oversight Committee that investigates everything the Executive branch does for years under Issa. They never stop a minute to think what it will be like to be on the other end of that!

Trump's lawyer now calls for Mueller being fired because Trump fired McCabe? Makes perfect sense in Lalaland.

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#306085 - 03/22/18 12:52 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
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Here's an interesting podcast by a legal eagle: Stormy Daniels is a legal genius.
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#306090 - 03/22/18 09:01 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Wow. Donald Trump has to either admit he paid a bribe to conceal a crime, or he has to say he's not a party to that agreement and cannot collect any damages when Stormy releases all the photos and text messages. His lawyer, on the other hand, is certainly going to be disbarred and likely go to prison.

And to even say publicly that you did not have an sex with that women (like Bill Clinton) is obstruction of justice if the purpose is to conceal a crime like making a secret agreement to conceal adultery. Unlike Bill Clinton who did not try to pay off Monica to conceal the affair. (The crime is making the agreement, not the sex.)

It's a trap, alright. I think Trump's only choice is to chew his leg off at this point.

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#306100 - 03/23/18 04:10 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Karen McDougal to Melania: I'm sorry for sleeping with Donald Trump - USA TODAY. All I can say, is, "Ick."

But on a more serious note, the dam is beginning to break. How will evangelicals spin this? "That was years ago." "love the sinner, not the sin", "nobody's perfect", "it's not something all of us haven't done." (That last was just the preachers). Holy hypocrisy! Evangelical leaders say Trump's Stormy affair is OK | Editorial - nj.com.
Quote:
L'Affaire Stormy would be a five-alarm inferno for any other president, but in the Trump White House it is routine sleaze, leaving the porn factor aside. And it would have been forgotten were it not for a Wall Street Journal report that revealed a $130,000 payoff by Trump's attorney to Daniels in October 2016, which may have violated election law.

But it didn't register on the moral barometers of evangelical leaders.

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#306103 - 03/23/18 10:53 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Loc: North San Diego County
As usual, the cover up is far more serious than the crime. Adultery is the original crime, though nobody would bother to prosecute it. Paying off Stormy was a more serious crime because you are trying to conceal the crime of adultery (a crime to this day in New York). Lying to say that he had nothing to do with Stormy (just recently) is then Obstruction of Justice because Mueller is investigating, and contrary to some Republican's opinions that obstruction does not have to be under oath. That would be the crime of Perjury, a separate issue.

Bill Clinton had a sexual affair with Monica, but he never tried to conceal it with a payoff. That's a rich guy tactic, which a lawyer would know can get you in more trouble than the original misdeed.

The first rule of holes is: When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. Trump does nothing but dig and dig and dig.

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#306105 - 03/23/18 11:29 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: pondering_it_all]
Ken Condon Offline
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Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3807
Loc: Eugene, OR
Thing is, according to the spin, W.J. Clinton doinked his paramour within the confines of the White House. While he was still POTUS. Big F sin!

Meanwhile, D.J.T. doinked all of them outside of the sacred walls of the W.H. and way before he was appointed emperor of the US.

According to “them”---a big and important difference.

Just ask Pat Robertson....
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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#306106 - 03/24/18 01:16 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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That has no meaning in court. In court they look at his 2018 statement that he had nothing to do with Stormy ever, then at the fact that Mueller was investigating that payoff at the time, and voila: Another Obstruction of Justice charge. The sex is not the important part of either. It's what you did to cover it up.

Pat never did get on the Supreme Court.

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#306150 - 03/27/18 04:27 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
Spag-hetti Offline
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Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
Is Stormy Daniels' suit a booby trap?


Edited by Spag-hetti (03/27/18 04:33 PM)
Edit Reason: Needed to apostrophize
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Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#306152 - 03/27/18 04:31 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 15967
Well, apparently prized boobies, that caught a booby.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306174 - 03/29/18 03:18 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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I don't think I'd enjoy them. Hmm
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#306262 - 04/06/18 05:49 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Trump Denies Knowledge Of Hush Money To Porn Actress - npr. As Slate notes,
"Donald Trump Basically Just Said He Should Lose the Litigation With Stormy Daniels."

It's hard to overstate how significant this admission is. Trump essentially said he didn't know about the contract. If he didn't know about it, he couldn't have agreed to it. No contract, no case. I expect a summary judgment motion.

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#306265 - 04/06/18 09:31 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8800
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Well, apparently prized boobies, that caught a booby.

Is it time for the booby hatch?
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"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#306266 - 04/06/18 12:36 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
too bad since none of his supporters care which porn star he is boinking and paying off ... however i suppose Mr Cohen may have legal problems
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ignorance is the enemy
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#306311 - 04/10/18 12:41 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Re: the so called NDA or contract or whatever you wish to call it between Stormy Daniels and the interested parties:

Only Trump can enforce the terms of the contract.
It's written into the contract.
No Trump, no contract.
Whether or not Trump signed it, or Stormy took the money, or whether the contract was between Cohen's LLC and her, none of it matters because the agreement is between her and Dennis Davidson aka Donald Trump, the rest is MOOT.

I'm curious as to whether she has pix or video.
They are specifically mentioned in the NDA.
I'm assuming it's text messages.
Trump is going to go on a full blown s*** fit if she actually has nude pictures/videos to share.
Someone better hide the nuclear football if that's the case.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306316 - 04/10/18 11:15 AM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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The two of them only did the nasty once. So I doubt there are nude pics. There are probably text messages though. And Stormy's attorney stated that Stormy can describe Dumbass' penis in detail. (It must be weird shaped or very ugly. Hmm )
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#306325 - 04/10/18 07:31 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


The two of them only did the nasty once. So I doubt there are nude pics. There are probably text messages though. And Stormy's attorney stated that Stormy can describe Dumbass' penis in detail. (It must be weird shaped or very ugly. Hmm )


In my addict days I knew a few ummmm...errr, "professional" ladies, mostly because they shared my taste for my particular poison, and I either had it on hand or they did.

The issue about remembering details of this nature is nothing more than a simple case of "shop talk" and "professional courtesy" among co-workers, as in one professional lady sharing details with other professional ladies.

And it is not difficult to imagine that Stormy might make note of details regarding the appendage of a certain powerful or wealthy ummmm...errr..."client".
And if you remember her interview, she made it clear that while she wasn't expecting anything more than a discussion about "The Apprentice", once he had made it clear that he was intent on boinking her, she decided that she had gotten herself into it and that she might as well get it overwith.

She made it clear that she wasn't playing victim or #metoo but that instead she was simply going to dispense with the situation much the same way as a professional lady would even though she never brought up money...he did...much later.

But anyway, gals who work the trade have no shortage of stories about this or that client. It isn't much different than a bunch of mechanics standing around talking about cars they worked on!

Quote:
"This guy brings in this 79 Olds, I swear he probably hadn't changed the oil in 50 thousand miles. I pulled the valve covers off and it looked like a damn coal mine! You couldn't even see the rockers or the valve springs. I had to take the cylinder heads off and chip away at the damn thing for three hours."
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306327 - 04/10/18 07:59 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
It's silly to think that hookers only screw people they find attractive. Their job is to screw unattractive people. Porn stars are just hookers who have figured out it's not illegal if you have a camera running.

So for Stormy to say: "Let's get it over with." is just a normal aspect of the job. I'm sure she screwed LOTS of unattractive people.

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#306328 - 04/10/18 08:27 PM Re: Stormy Daniels Suit: It's a Trap!! [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Hookers and porn stars boink all kinds of people they normally wouldn't, all the time.
Yes, that's the reason it's a job, of course.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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