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#307112 - 06/27/18 02:50 AM Re: Do they realize what they're doing? [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16301
A fundamental problem with the system as it now operates is the loss of the concept of "governing for all." Trump in particular, and Republicans in general, only look at governing with, by, and for "their side". Voters who voted the other side (even if there were more of them) simply don't count. "Negotiations" only include those of your own party. Trump recently cancelled the annual Congressional picnic rather than include Democrats in what has historically been a "bury the hatchet" moment. He lives for conflict. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell steadfastly refuse to include any Democrats in official proceedings. "Negotiations" are between the right wing of the party and the tea party wing. The "Hastert" disaster has become normal practice, and even cheating and violating constitutional prerogatives are preferable to inclusion or compromise. It's a sickness, and the cure is obvious.

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#307119 - 06/27/18 06:37 PM Re: Do they realize what they're doing? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7997
Loc: North San Diego County
And the funniest thing of all, is that they are following a strategy invented by a child molester. Not even a straight child molester but a man who liked to abuse boys!

Maybe enough of them will lose their seats in November and then they can negotiate with their Freedom Caucus all they want over who will be Minority Leader.

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#307128 - 06/27/18 07:22 PM Re: Do they realize what they're doing? [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
"Do they realize what they're doing?" is a good question. Another might be "Do WE realize what they're doing?" We all know what the jackass is doing as its what is being covered but what THEY are doing is, to my way of thinking, simply touched on occasionally whilst reporting on the jackass. This is exactly how THEY want it! If they do something particularly offensive, like destroying medicare, the jackass will step up and distract until nobody cares anymore. This is a pattern that works for them.

If you watch TV you will notice that those talking heads on the right will march in lockstep and never swerve from the agreed on talking point. The talking heads on the left, however, do not march in lockstep and adore covering the jackass more than anything else (just as they planned).

Just saying.............

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#307129 - 06/27/18 07:34 PM Re: Do they realize what they're doing? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13338
Loc: Whittier, California
Do corporate controlled "bots" have the right to free speech?
According to the logic of Citizens United, it would appear that they do.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#307133 - 06/27/18 10:44 PM Re: Do they realize what they're doing? [Re: NW Ponderer]
matthew Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 353
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I think the Constitution, while flawed, is the best "proof of concept" for balancing individual freedom and group accountability.

And yet, under that Constitution, here we are.
.
_________________________
Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

It is far easier to deceive folks than to convince them they are deceived

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#307203 - 07/01/18 05:41 PM Re: Do they realize what they're doing? [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16301
I retired, early, on January 1, 2014. I have been prudent in my savings, to supplement my retirement income. In 1986 and 2008 my savings took major hits because of corporate irresponsibility and the resultant recessions that accompanied those crashes. Being on the other side of the savings line, however (now drawing, rather than expanding), I am seriously worried about the signs of a coming collapse. Here is one of the most serious - and predictable - results of the tax giveaway of 2018 (Five Ways That the Republican Tax Bill Is a Giveaway to the Super-Rich): The $6.3 trillion debt binge: American companies have never owed this much - CNN. Combined with Trump's trade war escapades (Trump's trade policy is a rerun of a ter...biggest losers') and the Fed increasing borrowing costs (Inverted Yield Curve and How It Predicts a Recession), all signs point to a major recession in the near future.

I think this next recession, rather than causing a change in leadership, is likely to exacerbate the totalitarian tendencies of the controlling party - austerity measures to pauperize the poor, marginalizing and stigmatizing minorities, voter suppression, gerrymandering and court packing. With the wolves already outside the door, I am not sure how liberal democracy survives the coming apocalypse. WWII may seem quaint.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#307223 - 07/02/18 06:13 PM Re: Do they realize what they're doing? [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I think that folks forget just what the Jackass has done. He claimed, for instance, that he was the king of debt and had a lot of experience with it. As far as I can tell his way to handle debt is to simply not pay his debts. Individuals and small companies, for instance, refused to work for him unless he pre-paid as they had been burned by him. Then there are his numerous bankruptcies. Bankruptcy, for most, is humiliating and financially trying. For the jackass, however, there is a different way to deal. As far as I can tell his bankruptcies happened after he was able to loot the company, this is especially true of the casinos where they say he stole all the cash before going banko. So, basically, anybody who invested with him was left swinging in the wind. If you extend this behavior to the United States we have already seen him with his "tax cuts" run the national debt up by one TRILLION dollars. His claim that he is cutting the debit is yet another lie and the simple fact is that the debit is going up by, literally, hundreds of billions of dollars (Obama, on the other hand, actually reduced the debit year after year).

Here is a little thought. What will happen if the jackass decides to simply call the American national debt null and void? (kinda like a national bankruptcy but without giving anything up except honor, our word, our friends, jobs, you know, just about everything). Before that happens, however, I am sure he will take, loot, and steal whatever he can.

So, to recap. He has now got us into a trade war with Canada, China, and the EU with, I am sure, Mexico sure to follow. Basically we are now in a trade war with the entire rest of the world! On top of that he is also doing everything in his power to destroy any alignments with everybody but Russia and Saudi Arabia (the source, basically, of 95% of Muslim extremists). So, Pondering, you are wise to fear the coming Republican economic downturn and, I think, this one is going to be a duzy (we have been pulling back for the last 6 months and have started to take the money rather than reinvest. I retired in 2006) Our only real fear is that the Jackass will also take down the American dollar and then we will be in trouble.

I just looked this over and apologize. I suspect I was a bit too harsh.

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#307225 - 07/02/18 06:59 PM Re: Do they realize what they're doing? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7997
Loc: North San Diego County
I don't think the President can declare US debt instruments cancelled. There's something in the Constitution about "full faith and credit of the United States of America", so it would require a constitutional amendment. What he can do is to print more money, diluting the debt, but that harms everybody who holds any sort of US bill, bond, or currency. In other words, the rich!

Just like China can't "call our debt". All they can do is to sell it to other people, corporations, or countries on the world's markets. If they sold it quickly, they would lose a lot of money and the people who bought it at a discount would make a lot of money. But it would not hurt America much for the Swiss banks to hold our debt rather than China.

You know what they say: If I owe you a million dollars, it's my problem. If I owe you a billion, then it's YOUR problem.

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#307227 - 07/02/18 08:07 PM Re: Do they realize what they're doing? [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
This president does all sorts of things we are told he can't do so this wouldn't exactly surprise me. After all, he has half the country firmly behind him <G>

I understand completely what you say about my selling the debt thing. I also have seen what happens when somebody does start to sell it. Interest goes up, dollar goes down, etc. Your thought about somebody losing money to do that is a good one but the jackass is not the only crazy out there. My other thought is that I continue to be paranoid about the future.

I also don't believe that the jackass has a clue and is seriously ignorant. Given that, and the fact that any administration of the right always ends up wrecking the economy to one degree or another. I do remember, however, when Reagan actually raised taxes to "pay the bills". Its pretty obvious that the Jackass doesn't have the same concerns and the supposed party of the fiscally conservative (a title they have NEVER lived up to (and nobody has ever called them on)) sure as hell isn't paying attention.

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#307229 - 07/02/18 09:53 PM Re: Do they realize what they're doing? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13338
Loc: Whittier, California
And then there's this little issue with inverted Treasury yield curves which, on the face of it, seem to be an incredibly accurate predictor of upcoming recessions. And you're right, this one's probably gonna be a whopper.

By the way, has it occurred to anyone that he's doing this specifically so that his wealthiest admirers can short the market in advance?
That way, as usual, when the collapse comes, they can vacuum up all the severely depreciated assets at fire sale prices, hoard them for a little while and then resell them to the next generation of rubes and yokels.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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